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Blood moon
rick:
--- Quote from: JohnChris on April 14, 2014, 10:12:57 PM ---Basically the hatred applies to those who persist in sin- "when sinning becomes a way of life, and the sins are of a certain magnitude and grossness.."
--- End quote ---
Now I’m confused, am I to understand God loves some sinners but hates other sinners because their sins are of a greater magnitude than other sinners?
But I thought If one has broken one law they have broken all the laws ? If one is willing to be a law breaker then they offend the entire law.
My understanding is we are sinning machines, we are not sinners because we sin but we sin because we are sinners, so then sinning is a way of life for everyone in the human race.
Joel:
The beginning, the present, and the ending of all things are wrapped up in The Lord Jesus Christ.
Does God hate sin, and sinners? yes, that is abundantly clear from Genesis to Revelations.
The focal point is the life, death, and resurrection of our Lord and Savior.
Jesus is our mediator, and the only reason we will ever obtain a good resurrection from the dead.
Paul said he was still pressing toward the mark of the high calling when he wrote the book of Philippians. (Chapter 3 )
Enduring to the end, and being an overcomer takes a lot of living while making both good, and bad choices.
Most everyone recorded in the scriptures faced these things the same as us. With God all things are possible!
Some people are on the potter's wheel, some are in the fires of the kiln, and some are vessels of honor, or dishonor.
Do we have more of the works of the flesh in our lives, or more of the fruits of the Spirit? (Galatians 5)
Looking unto Jesus.
Joel
Kat:
Rick, yes we are all sinners, but for a few their sins are now covered by the sacrifice of Jesus Christ. So yes God has begun His work of salvation in a few and they are considered clean because of they are now in/covered by Jesus Christ.
Rom 4:7 "Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven, and whose sins are covered;
v. 8 blessed is the man against whom the Lord will not count his sin."
1John 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as He is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanseth us from all sin.
v. 8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
v. 9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
v. 10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
Rom 6:22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.
Having the Holy Spirit indwelling makes you free and alive.
Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
John 6:63 It is the Spirit that makes alive, the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit and are life.
mercy, peace and love
Kat
lareli:
Kat do you know of anywhere in the bible where it instructs us to hate sinners?
John I read the 2nd link you provided and just like the 1st link I agree with it. I see nothing that contradicts anything I've said on this thread (correct me if I'm wrong). Like I said earlier, there's plenty of scripture to show that God hates sinners and I haven't argued against that, but only God has the right to do that because He isn't a sinner. We are. So when God hates sinners He is not being a hypocrite but it's impossible for us sinners to hate other sinners without making hypocrites of ourselves.
You said that you want to be like God and so what He hates, you also want to hate and what He loves, you also want to love. But the problem I see here is that God looks at the heart while we can only see the outer man. So in our efforts to determine who God hates, we will inevitably fail and end up hating the wrong people because we don't see their heart. Ray also said in the 2nd link that God hates sinners in a way that we do not because God doesn't have a carnal mind, and we do.
Just so it's clear I'm not trying to teach I'm trying to learn and these are just my thoughts I'm throwing out there.
Kat:
Well largeli, of course we should hate/abhor evil.
Rom 12:9 Let love be genuine. Abhor what is evil; hold fast to what is good.
And like you were saying I would think it is a real difficulty to separate the sin from the sinner and maybe that is why Christ makes it clear that we should love all, even our enemy.
Mat 5:43 "You have heard that it was said, 'You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.'
v. 44 But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you,
v. 45 so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven. For he makes his sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust.
In verse 43 Christ says "you have heard that it was said... hate your enemy," that is not found in the OT, nor does Christ say it is, He's only saying it's been traditionally handed down to hate your enemy, but He refutes this idea. Paul teaches we should kill them with kindness.
Rom 12:17 Recompense to no man evil for evil. Provide things honest in the sight of all men.
v. 18 If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men.
v. 19 Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord.
v. 20 Therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him; if he thirst, give him drink: for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head.
v. 21 Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good.
I guess we should leave the hating to God, He is just and will repay appropriately.
mercy, peace and love
Kat
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