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Can Someone Explain This Scripture?

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deejcop:
Hello Group,

I happened to be watching Joel Osteen's sermon on TBN last night, and I heard him mention Psalm 78 41 which says, "Yea, they turned back and tempted God, and limited the Holy One of Israel. Smilin' Joe expounded on that verse by saying that although God is all-powerful, WE have the ability to LIMIT him, or to "tie His hands." This sounds like sheer blasphemy, as it makes us more powerful than God. But how else do you explain this verse? It seems to correlate with Mark 6:5 where Jesus could do no mighty work because of the people's unbelief. These verses seem to fuel the "free-willers" fire.

Any comments?

Andy_MI:
Hi deejcop,

Maybe a better translation of the verse will help. Here are a few other translations to consider.

Rotherham:
Psa 78:41 Yea they again put GOD to the test, And, to the Holy One of Israel, caused they sorrow:

The Scriptures 98:
Psa 78:41 And again and again they tried Ěl, And provoked the Set-apart One of Yisra’ĕl.

LITV:
Psa 78:41  Yea, they turned back and tested God, and pained the Holy One of Israel.

Revised Version:
Psa 78:41  And they turned again and tempted God, and provoked the Holy One of Israel.

The word "limited" is:

H8428
תּוה
tâvâh
taw-vaw'
A primitive root (or perhaps identical with H8427 through a similar idea from scraping to pieces); to grieve. (By confusion with H8427): - limit [by confusion with H8427].

I hope this helps.

Love in Christ,

Andy

Harryfeat:
Psa 78:36 Yet they would entice Him with their mouth And lie to Him with their tongue.
Psa 78:37 Their heart, it was not established before Him, And they were not faithful to His covenant."
Psa 78:38 Yet He was compassionate; He made a propitiatory shelter for depravity, And He did not bring ruin; He acted many times to reverse His anger, And He would not rouse all His fury."
Psa 78:39 He ever remembered that they were flesh, A wind going that is not returning."
Psa 78:40 How often they defied Him in the wilderness; They grieved Him in the desolation.
Psa 78:41 They were again and again probing El, And the Holy One of Israel they set as a mark."

I think that if you read in context with the other verses you get a better picture of the essence of what is being said.

I interpret it being similar to acting like children testing the boundaries of authority of their parents.

Just the way I see it. Hope that perspective helps

feat

hillsbororiver:
Yes, this looks like another bad translation, if you look up the original Hebrew that was translated to English you find "tempted" to actually be;


H5254
נסה
nâsâh
naw-saw'
A primitive root; to test; by implication to attempt: - adventure, assay, prove, tempt, try.


and "limited" to be;

H8428
תּוה
tâvâh
taw-vaw'
A primitive root (or perhaps identical with H8427 through a similar idea from scraping to pieces); to grieve. (By confusion with H8427): - limit [by confusion with H8427].

If you read the entire chapter the meaning (especially taking out the translator bias) this becomes clearer.

Joe

hillsbororiver:
Good stuff Andy, Bobby & feat,

You guys were right on top of this, I first consulted my Rotherham's then looked up the original Hebrew and came to the same conclusion.

Joe

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