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Author Topic: The good Art of Giving.  (Read 2524 times)

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moshe

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The good Art of Giving.
« on: May 28, 2014, 05:54:19 AM »


Since the beginning of Alex thread regarding giving 20 bucks to a homeless, I wanted to post, but what I wanted to say was a little longer than a short comment and so I have decided to make my own thread. I know the line between teaching and 'sharing your take about a subject' sometimes is kind of blurry. I wish I am not braking any forum rules, therefore I will try to keep this as personal as I can.


           Giving from the heart is the way we are supposed to give, and I agree, it's that simple. So what else could be said about it? According to the Scriptures, specifically the 'heart' is the part of our physique where we find our deepest emotions, intentions, desires, thoughts and imaginations (even when they are not totally conscious) and moral feelings. It is the most important and fundamental part to all our mental processes.

There was a time years ago when I was in NY for a while, giving so often the little money I had to the homeless, that I was soon to become one of them. From personal experience I have realize that giving is not that simple. Trying to love God with all our heart is the way to go, but, that's not all, we are asked to love God with all our mind as well. Specifically the 'mind' is the name assigned to the part of our psyche that has more to do with our intellect, rationality or analyzes (Rom. 14:5). Also with our memory, understanding, thoughts, common sense, morality and desires.

There was a time on my life when I was younger, that I had this strong feeling of joining an volunteer organization, but then realize that wasn't MY call. Next I am going to share three things that have help me out on this complex thing of giving. This are not rules to follow but just four things to remember, on what could be called 'The good Art of Giving'. (I called it art, because even when art is subjective to each person, good art does follows certain patterns which is what make it better over the others).


First thing that I try to keep in mind WHEN I GIVE:

      - I AM NOT ATTEMPTING TO FIX GOD'S WORLD WITH MY PUNY GOOD DEEDS.
        If I would dig into the roots of all physical world problems, eventually I will realize that the problem is spiritual, right in the heart of all men. Even if  some Powerful Organization with a great new Technology would bring physical wealth to every human being on earth, we would surely still have spiritual starving people among us. The peace of mind that this world gives (economical security, safety, healthiness, etc.) is very different than God's peace of mind.
John 14:27 Peace I am leaving with you. My peace I am giving to you. Not according as the world is giving to you, am I giving to you. Let not your heart be disturbed, neither let it be timid."

The thing with giving with this "good intention of world peace" in mind is that even without thinking about it consciously, we are telling God that things today are going out of control and that he needs some help, and so our Ego begins to grow and it is then when we stop growing spiritually. Truth is that God know what He is doing and eventually he will bring peace (That is my hope), but not on this eon.

Dear Deborah:
Good question.
The "world" represents two entities in Scripture:  [1] The Church, Judaism, the Whore, Mystery Babylon the Great, and [2] The social system of the the nations in general.
...
Jesus prayed for NEITHER of these two "worlds," as their destiny is solidly fixed by God's divine providence, and therefore prayer would be of no value. Jesus does not pray that His Father's Prophecies should NOT come to pass, and neither do God's Elect pray such nonsense as is parroted daily over the air waves "pray for world peace."  Nonsense. There will be no world peace--God has already decreed it.
God be with you,
Ray



Second thing that I try to keep in mind WHEN I GIVE:

      - MAKE A PRIORITY OF SPIRITUAL BROTHERS AND THE EXPANSION OF THE GOOD NEWS.      Since the first communities of believers we can see that giving from the heart between brothers was a priority (Acts 4:32 & 35 & 44), most verses about giving on the New Testament are about giving among brothers (it even makes sense to me that even in a family united blood bonds, a father would be doing wrong by giving his resources to the homeless while his wife and sons are going in need).
Also they used to give resources to TRUE teachers like Paul so to help them on their journey expanding the gospel. Today we have new technologies and new ways to expand the good news trough online means. We are to love God with all our heart and mind and this is not an easy task.

Doing more good sometimes depends on who do you do this good, just as doing more bad depends on who do you do that evil. For example, killing a person is wrong, but if someone kill an innocent girl, this makes it even worst. And woe to those who killed our Lord, but how fortunate those who where able to help out and do some good for our Lord.


And third thing to keep in mind WHEN I GIVE:

     -TRY TO DO GOOD DEEDS TO NON-BELIEVERS IF TIME AND OPPORTUNITY IS FAVORABLE.      Also they are a few examples of giving to non-believers on the new testament:
Luke 12:33 "...give alms. Make yourselves purses which do not age, a treasure which does not default, in the heavens where a thief is not nearing, neither moth is causing decay."

But when giving alms which sounds so nice and easy, we must also be careful of:
Doing it on secret, so I guess is between me and God. Now, if I join a volunteer organization, that would not be very secretly, personally I would care more about being able to help people spiritually than physically in my future. Churches love to do it openly, but they already have their reward, which is a good feeling of self pride and a little less dirty conscience (while we all know that these also works well for them as an advertising tool to promote their religious organization).

I guess one of the most important points when giving is to be aware of our Ego and Motivations. Judging is another thing that gets in the equation, beyond very basic human needs, giving money doesn't really help carnal people; as long as the heart is so weak, things are not really better off. Therefore when giving I have to make sure that my message is not: "your personal lifestyle is wrong--you must go for a higher living standard." This is called Judging. And Jesus said to judge not. Sometimes giving make things worst than better, and sometimes a little better than worst.



I am all for giving and helping when time and opportunity is favorable. All I am doing here is sharing some things that I try to keep in mind when giving, which could be probably of some help for someone else.

And here is one more email with more info on the subject:
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,2422.msg18930.html#msg18930




« Last Edit: May 28, 2014, 06:12:13 AM by Moises G. »
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indianabob

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Re: The good Art of Giving.
« Reply #1 on: May 28, 2014, 12:01:17 PM »

Dear friend Moises,

Thank you for sharing your sincere views.
I appreciate all that you have said and agree that our giving should be focused where it will do the most good according to God's plan rather than what we may think is fair or just. It is certainly true that we are not able to add any thing of great value to God's purpose that God is working out in God's own time.
This is a great topic to explore and to learn more about. I look forward to hearing from all the brethren of the forum.

Indiana Bob

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friendofJC

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Re: The good Art of Giving.
« Reply #2 on: May 28, 2014, 05:12:48 PM »

Ray believed in giving to bible-truths.com.  This site CHANGES lives.  I have no benefactors. I've told my estate executors that any extra money should go to bible-truths.com.  It cost many thousands of dollars to run the website!

Your post is definitely food for thought Moises. :D  Keep inspiring!
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lareli

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Re: The good Art of Giving.
« Reply #3 on: May 28, 2014, 05:29:02 PM »

We're told to accept the kingdom of heaven like a child. A child's take on helping a homeless person or sending money to starving kids in 3rd world nations is different than an adults opinion on the matter. Why?



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moshe

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Re: The good Art of Giving.
« Reply #4 on: May 28, 2014, 06:19:10 PM »

We're told to accept the kingdom of heaven like a child. A child's take on helping a homeless person or sending money to starving kids in 3rd world nations is different than an adults opinion on the matter. Why?

I am all for giving and helping when time and opportunity is favorable.

We are also told to love God with all our heart and with all our mind and we give to other because we love God. I guess that ''with all our mind'' takes a little more than what we would wish it would take. However, in the end God is going to judge us INDIVIDUALLY according to what we know, some minds are more simple than others and I bet God will also take that in account.

Also when it says that we are to accept the kingdom of heaven like a child, it doesn't mean with the ''naivety'' of a child.

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lareli

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Re: The good Art of Giving.
« Reply #5 on: May 28, 2014, 06:56:53 PM »


'First let me bury my father, then I will follow you.'

'First let me bid my family farewell, then I will follow you.' In other words, when the time and opportunity is favorable.





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lareli

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Re: The good Art of Giving.
« Reply #6 on: May 28, 2014, 07:03:09 PM »

Moises are you saying that if a child gives all he has to the poor that it's because the child is naive?
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Abednego

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Re: The good Art of Giving.
« Reply #7 on: May 28, 2014, 11:21:58 PM »


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theophilus

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Re: The good Art of Giving.
« Reply #8 on: May 29, 2014, 12:44:22 AM »

Hello guys! Hello Moisés! Mucho gusto! Long time! :)  Many times I have refrained from giving to a person who was clearly intoxicated or on drugs. Other times, I have given them a couple of dollars without hesitating. I felt like doing so. At least three people have approached me asking for, not money, but food. This has happened at different McDonalds' restaurants. I have gladly paid for a full meal of their choice. And they have been very grateful. And so have I for the opportunity to make their day a little bit bearable.

Having said this, I have to add that there are people begging for money who are con artists. And their changing tactics are good. I have decided not to try to figure them out. I'll just help them out with a few dollars God willing. I'll leave the rest to Him.

Roger.
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theophilus

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Re: The good Art of Giving.
« Reply #9 on: May 29, 2014, 12:45:10 AM »




I hope all those jumpers are leaving their wallets behind!!!! LOL!!!!
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indianabob

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Re: The good Art of Giving.
« Reply #10 on: May 29, 2014, 12:53:57 AM »

Moises are you saying that if a child gives all he has to the poor that it's because the child is naive?

Dear friends,
If I may comment;
I think that the attitude of a "little" child is to receive knowledge and teaching from their parents or other elders with an open heart, not questioning motives. That is the attitude that Lord Jesus recommended to us.

There is the story of the widow that gave into the Temple treasury her whole living. That was based upon a sincere desire to show appreciation to the God she reverenced. However, she didn't do the same every time she visited the Temple. So it is the attitude of the heart that is similarly illustrated in the mind of the "little" trusting child.

Mark 12:41-44
King James Version (KJV)
41 And Jesus sat over against the treasury, and beheld how the people cast money into the treasury: and many that were rich cast in much.

42 And there came a certain poor widow, and she threw in two mites, which make a farthing.

43 And he called unto him his disciples, and saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That this poor widow hath cast more in, than all they which have cast into the treasury:

44 For all they did cast in of their abundance; but she of her want did cast in all that she had, even all her living.

Just my view: Indiana Bob
« Last Edit: May 29, 2014, 12:56:45 AM by indianabob »
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moshe

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Re: The good Art of Giving.
« Reply #11 on: May 29, 2014, 04:46:05 AM »


Largeli

As I have already said, All I am doing here is sharing some things that I try to keep in mind when giving. If you don't find what I am saying helpful, I am not going to argue my point.

 I shared 3 points, and non of them suggest that we should stop giving in any way. My whole purpose is only trying to put priorities in order, and to use not only 'the heart' but also 'the mind' when giving, that's all.


Indianabob

thanks for your input. I was going to bring that same example of the widow. You are right, God cares mostly about the heart, and also there are so many other things that someone can be able to give besides money.

It's better to give than to receive, but I think that receiving is also good; it helps to keep the ego down, and gives  us more reasons to give when the time comes.



Man, I think it's easier to sound 'not gentle' when talking online... I apologize if whatever I have said hurts somebody's feelings.
 

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Ian 155

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Re: The good Art of Giving.
« Reply #12 on: May 29, 2014, 07:59:33 AM »

May I add this dime, pun intended,if you are meant to give you wont be able to help yourself it will be automatic even if you think you were conned afterward - God always gets his way
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virginiabm

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Re: The good Art of Giving.
« Reply #13 on: May 29, 2014, 09:15:22 AM »



    Hi Family, I believe if we think about the what if's to long we would not give, and if we did anyway it  would be half hearted and it would be better not to give at all. The LORD Loves a cheerful giver and half hearted giving is not by any means cheerful.
    Just my humble take on things.

     Your sister in Christ,
       Virginia Miller
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indianabob

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Re: The good Art of Giving.
« Reply #14 on: May 29, 2014, 11:44:01 AM »

Friend Moises,
Please keep challenging us to think on things that may be uncomfortable AT FIRST for some of us.
It is after all the process that God used through HIS perfect, loving son, Lord Jesus. No group or no individual was more challenged/admonished to correct and improve their beliefs than Jesus' own apostles.

The forum is the primary place where we can practice " walking in the shoes of another" and then with forgiveness and humor in our hearts come to understand how other persons view the world through the spiritual eyes that God gave them.

One of the character traits that Older persons have to adopt is that of appreciating the service and gifts of others on their behalf. As we age and weaken physically and mentally and our younger friends come to help us, we need to focus on their love and good intentions toward us and not keep saying things like, " I can do it myself", " I don't need any help". For after all how can the next generation grow in love if they have nowhere to express it? And where better than among family members that they trust...  ;D :)

Indiana Bob
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walt123

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Re: The good Art of Giving.
« Reply #15 on: May 29, 2014, 02:42:33 PM »

Good post moises.

Here is food for thought.

http://youtu.be/U5EV1Fx8Hc4


Matthew 6:21
Young's Literal Translation (YLT)
21 for where your treasure is, there will be also your heart.

WALT.
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lareli

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Re: The good Art of Giving.
« Reply #16 on: May 29, 2014, 03:04:52 PM »

Moises I'm not arguing your points. I only commented on your statement "when the time and opportunity is favorable" because you made that statement twice. Once in your OP and again in your reply to my question. You never did answer my question though.

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moshe

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Re: The good Art of Giving.
« Reply #17 on: May 29, 2014, 07:11:56 PM »

Moises are you saying that if a child gives all he has to the poor that it's because the child is naive?

In certain time and situation, Yes. 

Look, I grew up in a "3rd world nation", and there comes a point when you can no longer give, because you will become just as poor.

In my past I have been in abundance and also in times on need. But thanks God I am learning to become content whatever my situation. Really I am not against giving, how could I, when I have been in both sides.

When you wish to give but you can't, It's then when you realize that even the good wish towards others well fare counts to God. Just as well as it works the opposite: when you wish to do something wrong but for whatever reason you can't. God knows the heart.
The heart is deceitful among all things. That's why I am just saying that when giving we should try to love God with all our minds as well.

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moshe

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Re: The good Art of Giving.
« Reply #18 on: May 30, 2014, 04:29:34 PM »

'First let me bury my father, then I will follow you.'

'First let me bid my family farewell, then I will follow you.' In other words, when the time and opportunity is favorable.


You are taking that verse out of the context with my statement. That verse is talking about what Jesus was asking on that particular occasion to that man. Because he knew what was in his heart's treasure. Have you sell already all you have and give it to the poor?

When I say that we should give to non-believers ''when time and opportunity is favorable'', is because there are times when time and opportunity are not favorable. Like for example, I have 2 bucks left to get the train, but I feel in my hard so hard (out of compulsion) to give it to that homeless... you might do it once or twice, but after a while you start questioning your self. I mean, sometimes people feel bad with themselves for not giving enough as if their where all responsible of the world's present condition. And I could bring so many other examples.


(WNT) 2Co 9:5  I have thought it absolutely necessary therefore to request these brethren to visit you before I myself come, and to make sure beforehand that the gift of love which you have already promised may be ready as a gift of love, and may not seem to have been something which I have extorted from you.
2Co 9:6  But do not forget that he who sows with a niggardly hand will also reap a niggardly crop, and that he who sows bountifully will also reap bountifully.
2Co 9:7  Let each contribute what he has decided upon in his own mind, and not do it reluctantly or under compulsion. "IT IS A CHEERFUL GIVER THAT GOD LOVES."
2Co 9:8  And God is able to bestow every blessing on you in abundance, so that richly enjoying all sufficiency at all times, you may have ample means for all good works.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Here is a good explanation of the verse you are quoting:
(ARE YOU RICH AND INCREASED WITH GOODS? from Mobile conference 2009).
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,11521.0.html?PHPSESSID=eafjmkb5n4ri57h9u6u62ihql4


I certainly do not have the time to cover many way that you are “yet carnal.”  But my hope is that covering a few in more detail, that it will prepare your minds to obey all such commandments and admonitions from God’s Word. 

Mat 6:21  For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.

Alright let’s go through it.  Luke 18, you know the story but we’re going to take a quick look at it.

Luke 18:18 And a certain ruler asked Him, saying, Good Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?
v. 19 And Jesus said unto him, Why do you call Me good? There is none good, but one, that is God.

Some people would use that to prove that Christ cannot be referred to as God, because He said “only God (speaking of His Father here) is good.”  But when He said this, He had divested Himself of all His power and glory, so He was in human form in the weakened state of flesh.

v. 20 You know the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Honor thy father and thy mother.
v. 21 And he said, All these have I done from my youth.
v. 22 Now when Jesus heard these things, He said unto him, You lack one thing, sell all that you have, and distribute it unto the poor, and you shall have treasure in heaven: and come, follow Me.

He was offering him apostleship, not discipleship, apostleship. He turned it down!
It’s like:
Christ - How would you like to be My apostle?
Certain ruler - Yeah okay, what will it cost me?
Christ - Everything you’ve got.
Certain ruler - Nope, too high a price.

v. 23 And when he heard this, he was very sorrowful: for he was very rich.
v. 24 And when Jesus saw that he was very sorrowful, he said, how hardly shall they that have riches enter into the kingdom of God.

Now, if you think this is a small subject, a physical small subject, you know this filthy lucre - money and this is not important in God’s realm of things.
Chapter 18 -- the whole chapter deals with money.
Chapter 19 -- the whole chapter is centered around money and riches and what you do with them.
Chapter 20 -- centers around money and riches and wealth.
Chapter 21 -- same thing.

You think that it isn’t important? I mean, when God mentions something two or three times in the Bible, it’s pretty important… four whole chapters! Okay? Alright.

He KNEW the commandments of God and he obeyed them from his youth!   So, he went away sorrowful. Was that being spiritually minded or carnally minded? [Attendees: Carnally minded.] He wanted to know what he needed to do to inherit eternal life... he went away sorrowful. He was carnally minded, which ends in? [Death.] That wasn’t what he wanted, was it? If he had said, what should I do if I want to inherit death? Jesus could have said, keep doing what you’ve always been doing… enjoy your money.

But they say, ‘yeah, Jesus asked A LOT of the rich man to give up all his money.’ Guess what? Jesus asks A LOT of us, a lot. He didn’t say you couldn’t get in the kingdom of God, but he said it is nigh onto, almost impossible.

What if anything then can a rich man do to enter the Kingdom?  In the next chapter (Luke 19) we have the story of Zacchaeus, he was rich.  He was a short guy who couldn’t see Him, so he climbed a tree or whatever.  They criticized him… he said, 'Lord I know I’m not a perfect man, but half of everything I have, HALF, I give to the poor.'  Now He didn’t ask him to give all. I think Zacchaeus was probably old and Jesus probably didn’t want him as an apostle or maybe he didn’t have those talents or whatever. He didn’t offer him apostleship, but he volunteered that he gave half of his riches to the poor and with Jesus that was fine. He said, “salvation come to this house…” (Luke 19:9).  He said you’ve got the right attitude.


 
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ez2u

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Re: The good Art of Giving.
« Reply #19 on: June 24, 2014, 12:15:34 AM »

praise God from whom all blesssing come,  love this subject.  how can we know the intent of the heart?  am pretty much a giver i would rather be wrong and give than to not give.....  it makes me happy inside.  don't think a lot about it. I can't tell you how it feels inside to help another out.  I pray and ask God to send people to help and He does.  When my husband passes on am going to give away almost everything i have and live very simply i can't stand all this stuff that was so needed when the children were young.  I hope to find a young poor family to give it to i know they will have problems, doesn't everyone? I just want to give to someone else because when i was young until i was in my early 30's we had nothing and trying to raise 3 children ( that was my first husband) I grew up very poor too and all around, in the Christian world too, people had nice things that i did not have.  This really hurt me i would say God what is wrong with me why do they get nice things and not my family.  Now i understand and really appreciate  what i have but i don't need nice things anymore i need simplicity and to do the will of the Father. that is all so i hope the Lord will send someone my way to help, like He help me a little and to let them know God really does love them.  its just a beginning sometimes.  The word says " don't throw your pearls before the swine nature"  so pray is so important in giving but things of the world items, money, they are just the world system. God has always meant my needs and show me through poverty His divine will.  I have so many beautiful stories of this as those 3 poor children grew.  Giving isn't always for the receiver as much as the giver.  our poverty is more spiritual than physical in this country.  Its amazing when you come to know Jesus Christ how so many things change. What is rich what is poor? 
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