Matthew 25:41, 46

[sarahfromcolorado]

This is something that I've thought about before and thought it might be a help or encouragment to some one else. Maybe some one else here has seen this too?

Any one who has traced the word aionios through out the New and Old Testament (Septuagint) will have to admit that aionios is used when speaking of the duration of things that have had both a beginning and an end and so, at the very least, it cannot always be referring to eternity or everlasting. For instance the Old Covenant and laws that went along with it (circumcision, animal sacrifice, preistly duties) are all said to be aionios in duration.

So if someone wants to argue that while aionios can sometimes refer to a period of time in Scriptures like Mt 25:46 it may be speaking of endlessness so how can we really know for sure. Well, besides the fact that if it were endless it would cause contradiction within Scripture we can also look to the book of Revelation to know for sure.

In Mt 25:41 we can see that the "aionion fire" and "aionion chastisement" is referring to the lake of fire. So we go to Revelation and see that the lake of fire is described as being for the ages (aion in the plural) of ages ("forever and ever" in the KJV). So we know that there is no such thing as "foreverS". In addition aion is in the plural which means it is talking of at least two ages and so it cannot be "endless ages" (one age has to END in order for there to be another).

So when we put Matthew 25:41, 46 and Revelation 20:10 together we can see that either aionios is speaking of a period of time or it contradicts what we read in Revelation. Revelation 20:10 can be used to prove that even if aionios sometimes meant "everlasting" in this case it cannot.

Any way I hope this helps some one. If I'm off somewhere please let me know!

[sarahfromcolorado]

Also one more thing.

One of the arguments that I've heard for why aionios cannot be referring to a period of time is because God is called the aionion God and if aionion is speaking of a period of time then God is God for only a period of time. But Christ is said live for the ageS of ageS (forever and ever in the KJV). Does that mean that when those ages are over Christ ceases to live?

Also I believe Ray wrote in one of his papers that a statement of fact does not limit the thing being spoken of to that fact. God is also said to be the God of the earth but that doesn't mean he is not also the God of the universe. So God can be the aionion God and also the everlasting God.

[Samson]

Sarah,

Below are a few excerpt's from some of Ray's Articles regarding the Noun Aion and it's derivatives, Aions and Aionios.

From the Letter to John Hagee.

"It may be laid down as a rule that no language had, for some time after the first century A.D., any term to denote eternity." (Whence Eternity?, By: Alexander Thomson, p. 5). That's a telling statement. Not only doesn't the Hebrew or Greek Scriptures use a word meaning "eternity" or "endless time" in the original texts, it was impossible for them to do so. The Hebrew and Greek Languages had no word that meant "endless time" or "eternity." And further, no one has ever found such a word in ANY LANGUAGE before the second century to denote "endless time" or "eternity."

I quote once again from Whence Eternity? "In the year 540, Justinian made arrangements for the calling together of the famous local council of four years later. ... In particular, he wished it made very plain that the life of the saints was to be everlasting, and that the doom of the lost was to be likewise. Yet he did not argue that the word eonian meant everlasting. Nor did he claim that the word eonian had hitherto been misunderstood ... Origen, who exulted in the truth of the reconciliation of the universe, definitely used the word eonian with reference to fire and doom as meaning a limited time. But writing in the very expressive Greek language, Justinian says, 'The holy church of Christ teaches an ENDLESS eonian (ateleutetos aionios) life for the just, and ENDLESS (ateleutetos) punishment for the wicked.' Justinian knew quite well that by itself eonian DID NOT signify endless, and he therefore added a word the meaning of which is quite unequivocal, a word not found in the Scriptures. This letter of Justinian, which is still in existence, ought to convince anyone who is in doubt, regarding the true scriptural meaning of the word eonian. ... It was not until the year 696, at Constantinople, that a Council publicly condemned this doctrine of Origen [reconciliation of all] for the first time, the glorious teaching [reconciliation] being called 'DRUNKEN RAVINGS as to the future life of the dead." [Emphasis mine], page 19.

Comment: Notice that Justinian & Augustine needed to add an additional word to mean "Endless Ages," Ateleutetos Aionios. The Letter of Justinian is still in existence and proves without a doubt that they knew "Aionios" by itself could not mean Endless Duration.

From the Article: Is Everlasting Scriptural.

Comment: Let me try this one more time. God created the eons of time, therefore, He is "the eonian God." God is working out His plan of salvation for the entire human race within the confines of these "eonian times." The Scriptures know nothing of "eternity." They didn't even have a word for the concept. Redemption is only one of many things that God will accomplish in the eons. There are no promises, no prophecies, no anything, mentioned in Scripture that goes beyond the conclusion of the eons. After the eons are over, then what? What will we do? IT DOESN'T SAY. We know of only two things that are taught in reference to anything beyond the eons [1] we will all have IMMORTALITY [we will never die]. The word itself has nothing to do with "time," but rather 'death-less-ness, and [2] God will be ALL IN ALL. That's it! Beyond these, we must trust God in faith regarding what eternity holds for us.

Now for one of the most important truths of all regarding this word "aionios." When God says that He is "the EONIAN God," He is stating a FACT. That Jesus procured "EONIAN redemption" for us, is a statement of FACT. Neither "eonian God" nor "eonian redemption" are statements of LIMITATION. And to suggest that they are statements of limitation is to pervert the Scriptures—they neither say nor insinuate any such thing.

This principle of stating a FACT, which is not a statement of LIMITATION is found throughout the Scriptures. God is for example: "The God OF Abraham, OF Isaac, and OF Jacob"(Ex. 3:6). This is a statement of FACT. It is not a statement of LIMITATION. This statement of fact does not limit God from also being the God of Moses, David, Peter and Paul.

If the statement said that God is the "God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob ONLY," then it would be a statement of limitation, but we don't find any such words of limitation in the verses in question. It doesn't say that God is the "eonian God, ONLY," or that Jesus procured "eonian redemption ONLY" for us. Does it? Well, DOES IT? Why then do you deceitfully suggest that that is what IT MUST AND HAS TO MEAN?

Comment: God is the Eonian God, but is not limited to the Ages, He created the various Ages and because He's Immortal(GK-Athanasia) meaning Deathless, He has endless Life as the result of being Immortal. A statement of fact: The Eonian God is not a Statement of limitation.

Comments from Ray regarding the Latin Seculum usually translated "World," but incorrectly and the Latin Aeternum usually translated Eternal or Everlasting, Read Below !

Comment: The word "eternal" comes from the Latin "aeternum" which in the first century meant virtually the same as the word "seculum," and in fact, Jerome sometimes rendered "aion" aeternus, and in other places he renders "aion" as seculum. They were considered virtually synonyms. Here is the how Latin dictionaries define, seculum—"a generation, an age, the world, the times, the SPIRIT OF THE TIMES, and a period of a hundred years." (Caps mine).

Trajan, Roman emperor from 98 to 117 AD spoke of seculum as the time he lived in. Tertullian, born about 160 AD refers to "a mighty shock impending over the entire world, and the conclusion of the seculum itself." Lactantius, born about 260 AD speaks of the "learned ones of this seculum." Eusebius, early Church historian, born about 265 AD gives the account of a martyrs' trail in which Speratus, the martyrs' leader, replied, "The empire of this seculum [world] I do not recognize."

We read this from the work, Whence Eternity by Scholar and Expert in the Greek language, Alexander Thomson, "Long ago in Rome, periodic games were held, which were called 'secular' games. Herodian, the historian, writing in Greek about the end of the second or beginning of the third century, call these 'eonian' games. In no sense were the games eternal. Eonian did not mean eternal any more than a seculum meant eternity" (Page 12

Some of examples from Ray as to why the Plural Aions and the adjective Aionios cannot be translated Forever, Everlasting & Eternal, it's inconsitent based on the Scriptural passages listed below.

Comment: Some argue that "eon" in the singular means "age," but in the plural it means "forever" or "eternal." Let's see how the Greek Septuagint uses both the singular and plural forms in these two verses"

Singular: Micah 4:5—"ets ton aiona kai epekeina....for the eon and BEYOND." Well that can't possibly mean forever for eternal, as there can be nothing "beyond" eternity.

Plural: Dan. 12:3, "eis tous aionas kai eti....for the eons and LONGER." Once again, there can be nothing "longer" than eternity Besides, how is it possible to have a plurality of "eternities?"

Here are just a few scriptures in which "aionios" cannot possibly mean ETERNAL:

1. Rom. 16:25—"...according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world [Gk: aionios] began." You have attempted time and again to set up a straw man by insisting that if "aionios" is "eonian," then it must be changed to a noun and translated as "of the ages." Well check this bit of translating genius out. We have the ADJECTIVE word "aionios" and the KJV translators changed it to a NOUN, "world."

Well guess what? The word "world" (kosmos) is not found in this verse, furthermore, neither is the word "began." The Greek reads: "...in times eonian." Do we really believe in "times eternal." What does "time," let along "timeS" have to do with "eternity?" And as Paul speaks of the "revelation" of this secret, how could it EVER be revealed if it was kept secret 'ETERNALLY?' Do you not see a problem—a CONTRADICTION in all of this?

2. II Thes. 2:16—"...and has given us everlasting consolation and good hope through grace." "Console" is defined as, "To allay sorrow or grief of." "Hope" is defined as, "To wish for something with expectations of its fulfillment." Now then, according to this inane KJV translation of this verse, just how long are we going to have our "SORROW AND GRIEF ALLAYED?" How long must we "HOPE" before we have our hope fulfilled? For ALL ETERNITY? Nonsense.

3. II Tim. 1:9—"...according to His own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began." The word "world" is not found in the Greek manuscripts, the word "began" is not found in the Greek manuscripts. Here is what the Greek says: "...before TIMES EONIAN." So where is the consistency with these translators? Could they not deceive the readers by translating this verse properly? If "aionios" means "eternal" or "evermore" then HOW, pray tell, can there be "TIMES" "BEFORF" "ETERNITY?" Give me a break. This is not translating; this is out and out planned deception! They change an adjective into a noun, then change the noun to a different word, then completely leave out the word "times." This total lack of scholarship and honesty is reprehensible!

4. Jude 7—"Even as Sodom and Gomorha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire." The Greek reads: "...experiencing the justice of fire eonian." Well just how long does this "eonian/aionios fire last? Is it really "eternal" as the Authorized Version and you, contend?

            A.      There is NO FIRE burning in Palestine since the days of Sodom anywhere, let along in the vicinity of these ancient cities. The best archaeologists can discern, Sodom is located at the bottom of what is now a sea.

B.      Ezekiel 16:55—"When your sisters, SODOM and her daughters, shall RETURN TO THEIR FORMER ESTATE, and Samaria and her daughters shall return to their former estate, then you [Jerusalem] shall return to your former estate."

Hope this helps and Yes, they used the Greek Septuagint translation of the Hebrew/Aramaic (Old Testament) in the First Century, so they must have known what Aion meant.

Kind Regards, Samson.

[sarahfromcolorado]

Thanks Samson. It was those articles that helped to convince me beyond any doubt that aion and aionios never referred to endlessness. Still there are those who would argue that maybe sometimes aionios could mean everlasting and so when it speaks of judgment they may ask how can they really know for sure? When I compare Mt 25:41, 46 with how John describes the duration of the lake of fire (for the ages of ages) that confirms to me that there can be no doubt that this aionion chastisement is for ages (a period of time) and not endless.

[Samson]

Thanks Samson. It was those articles that helped to convince me beyond any doubt that aion and aionios never referred to endlessness. Still there are those who would argue that maybe sometimes aionios could mean everlasting and so when it speaks of judgment they may ask how can they really know for sure? When I compare Mt 25:41, 46 with how John describes the duration of the lake of fire (for the ages of ages) that confirms to me that there can be no doubt that this aionion chastisement is for ages (a period of time) and not endless.

Yes Sarah,

That helped Me too, regarding the phrase " Forever and Ever," How many Forever's can there be, especially considering it's endless. Louis Abbott & John Wesley Hanson are good at explaining how inconsistent the translators are when translating Aions & Aionios too, Ray quotes from them several times throughout His articles.

The first Paper I ever read on Aion & it's derivatives was By John Wesley Hanson, although I like Whence Eternity By Alexander Thomson, the best. The subject of Aion is probably my all time favorite, can you tell,  .

It was nice to discover after many years that God isn't going to Chastise or Punish Humankind "Endlessly," based a short lifetime of finite sinning.

Whew, no more trying to please God out of plain fear, Samson.

[sarahfromcolorado]

haha, yeah I am the same way about aion. I think the first book I read about aion was "Aion by J. W. Hanson" too! I was so blown away by how translators could get away with mistranslating these words for so long. Especially the word aion when it is clearly in its plural form. I was shocked and kind of angry for awhile that it was so easy to disprove the one thing that tormented me and so many others. It was like how can all these pastors not know or not say anything about this??

I'm so glad He started to show me these things. I used to be so afraid that my family might end up in hell or that I could. Not long before I came across bible truths and a few other sites I had lost my grandma to a stroke. I knew she believed but just the thought of "what if" tormented me. I couldn't think about it for more than a few seconds. I am sooo greatful.

And I'm greatful that I found and joined the forum. It's awesome to be able to share and learn with people who believe the same way.

[Cwacrowe]

Awesome work everyone. Thank you.

[lilitalienboi16]

Holy necromancer batman! Talk about raising the dead!

[theophilus]

Man, I've been trying to figure out for the past five minutes how I got to this old post! I loved it but I was wracking my brains until I saw your comment lilitalienboi16!