> General Discussions
It's Scientific, We Have No Free Will
Mike Gagne:
If God doesn't give you a experience in evil how will you know evil? If he doesn't give you a experience in good how will you know good? To God the darkness and the light are alike ! They are a expression of love. When God brings you through them/ good and evil you learn his righteous judgements and that's what I am saying, I am going through His judgements! God isn't concerned with sin, it is tool to bring about sons. And yes we will be sons!...Thus saith the Lord, the Holy One of Israel, and his Maker, Ask me of things to come concerning my sons, and concerning the work of my hands command ye me. (Isaiah 45:11 KJV)... Anyhow All in love...Mike
Mike Gagne:
Hi Alex ! Pay attention here!! Didn't LRay teach you that Jesus only taught in parables? And yes in what you call the resurrection they will be judged for there works ! But the first fruits are learning his righteous judgements now! And the rest will Learn later! All in love..Mike :)
lilitalienboi16:
--- Quote from: Mike Gagne on June 19, 2014, 08:44:00 PM ---If God doesn't give you a experience in evil how will you know evil? If he doesn't give you a experience in good how will you know good? To God the darkness and the light are alike ! They are a expression of love. When God brings you through them/ good and evil you learn his righteous judgements and that's what I saying, I am going through His judgements! God isn't concerned with sin, it is tool to bring about sons. And yes we will be sons!...Thus saith the Lord, the Holy One of Israel, and his Maker, Ask me of things to come concerning my sons, and concerning the work of my hands command ye me. (Isaiah 45:11 KJV)... Anyhow All in love...Mike
--- End quote ---
We are in agreement that good and evil contrast one another and that one cannot exist without the other, at least not in a state that we could comprehend.
There are plenty people around the world who are experiencing good and evil and yet are learning nothing about righteousness. Its not good and evil that teaches us righteousness. It is God's judgments.
Isaiah 26:9 "for when thy judgments are in the earth, the inhabitants of the world will learn righteousness." It doesn't say, "For when thy good and evil are in the earth, the inhabitants will learn righteousness.
Also, it is through judgement that God's grace can teach us righteousness by His spirit:
Titus 2:11-12 For the grace of God [God's divine influence upon our hearts] that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;
and
Hebrews 12:5-11 "And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him: For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth. If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not? But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye ********, and not sons. Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live? For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness. Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.
You are not learning righteousness because of good and evil. You are learning righteousness because God is judging you because you are accountable for your actions, since all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and through His judgement He is teaching you by His spirit acting upon your heart--righteousness. This chastisement becomes plainly visible by our fruit.
Galatians 5:22 "But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, temperance: against such there is no law."
As for this whole experience of good and evil, what purpose does it serve? I suppose many, many purposes but the best decleration I know of its purpose is this;
Ecc 1:13 I applied my heart to inquiring and exploring by wisdom concerning all that is done under the heavens:it is an experience of evil Elohim has given to the sons of humanity to humble them by it.
I don't think there is a verse though that states explicitely, that we learn righteousness by experiencing good and evil. No. That is only come through judgement and we are judged by our works, the works we are HELD ACCOUNTABLE FOR.
God be with you,
Alex
P.S. Yes, Jesus did speak in parables, the Word of God is one big parable. I did quote a parable, you are right. It however, does not detract from the point that was being made. There are many layers of truths to a parable.
P.P.S. Also, I think God is very concerned with sin, one of the big messages of the new testament, and in fact the old testament was, repent of your sins and turn from your iniquities. Jesus died for our sins. The death of the Son of God should not be laid to nothing.
Dave in Tenn:
Yes, He is creating sons and daughters.
Hebrews 12.
Mike, I don't want to argue over varying understandings of what "accountable" means. I've beat that horse senseless. The first time you used, it was you who chose...even though a combination of multitudes of influences, beliefs, and circumstances (brought about by Sovereign God) coupled with your own weakness and (likely) lust (the way you were made--and all of us were, in our own way) led you to do what you absolutely could not have avoided. And then addiction happened--which only multiplied those influences, beliefs and circumstances which, when coupled with your susceptibility for addiction (which was also there outside of your own will and doing) caused you to continue.
Then the Lord God said, in effect--"enough is enough." And He used His faith and grace and another set of influences, beliefs, and circumstances known only to you (and likely not completely known EVEN to you) to deliver you from that pattern. To my mind, this is the SCOURGING referred to in Hebrews 12. NOW, you are under a different multitude of influences, beliefs and circumstances leading you to a different outcome...all ordained of God out of Love. Yet (and I hope this is Good News) you are not simply predestined, but predestined to good works, which the Lord has foreordained that you should walk in them.
Thank God, He has foreordained ALL to follow this pattern (each in his/her own way), but the timing of this is in HIS hands...and neither LIFE nor DEATH can separate us from the Love of God. The world at large, and the greater part of the world of Christendom don't believe this, however. Hell, they can't even agree on what constitutes "good works".
I'm in there somewhere. Everything I've ever done, it has been ME doing it. But everything I've ever done has been--at the moment I did it--not without cause. Let me know if I've missed the mark completely with you. I'm pretty sure, however, that you currently think that 'to not use' is a better way to live than 'to use'. Sounds like you thought that even when you were 'using'...at least when it got away from you.
Kat:
--- Quote from: Mike Gagne on June 19, 2014, 08:04:41 PM ---Hi Kat! The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world. (John 1:29 KJV). For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; (1 Corinthians 15:3 KJV). Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father: (Galatians 1:4 KJV). Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high; (Hebrews 1:3 KJV). So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation. (Hebrews 9:28 KJV). Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed. (1 Peter 2:24 KJV).
Well I don't see anything to be accountable for according to theses scriptures... I have used scriptures in this string that really says what I am saying. Here's the last thing I will post on this, here is a man trying to be accountable to God..... Moreover the Lord answered Job, and said, Shall he that contendeth with the Almighty instruct him? he that reproveth God, let him answer it. Then Job answered the Lord, and said, Behold, I am vile; what shall I answer thee? I will lay mine hand upon my mouth. Once have I spoken; but I will not answer: yea, twice; but I will proceed no further. Then answered the Lord unto Job out of the whirlwind, and said, Gird up thy loins now like a man: I will demand of thee, and declare thou unto me. Wilt thou also disannul my judgment? wilt thou condemn me, that thou mayest be righteous? Hast thou an arm like God? or canst thou thunder with a voice like him? Deck thyself now with majesty and excellency; and array thyself with glory and beauty. Cast abroad the rage of thy wrath: and behold every one that is proud, and abase him. Look on every one that is proud, and bring him low; and tread down the wicked in their place. Hide them in the dust together; and bind their faces in secret. Then will I also confess unto thee that thine own right hand can save thee. (Job 40:1-14 KJV)..... :) All in love...Mike
--- End quote ---
Mike you said, "I don't see anything to be accountable for according to theses scriptures." But are you going to just disregard all the Scripture that I have already posted that clearly show we are to be held account, either now are in the age to come?
Psa 119:160 The sum of your word is truth, and every one of your righteous rules endures forever.
mercy, peace and love
Kat
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