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It's Scientific, We Have No Free Will

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Kat:

Hi Mike,

Oh I'm certainly am not saying that our accountability takes away any degree of God's sovereignty, not at all.

Heb 1:3  who being the brightness of His glory and the express image of His person, and upholding all things by the word of His power... (also the YLT has it) bearing up also the all things...

Col 1:17  And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist (NKJV); has its cohesion (CLV); hold together (Rotherham)

If God stepped back, even for an instant, everything would just vanish away. But this experience in this life is for 'our' benefit, for 'us' to learn by and that's why God made it so we have to answer and learn, gain knowledge from what we do. He is giving all of us this life experience and what we gain from it is very important, even critical that we learn about good and evil now, to form a base character. He has this all planned out and yes it will go exactly as He has ordained it to be down to the most minute detail.

Isa 46:10  Declaring the end from the beginning, And from ancient times things that are not yet done, Saying, 'My counsel shall stand, And I will do all My pleasure,'

It also is intended that mankind not be aware that God is directing our every step, or is indeed sovereign. He is letting us think we have control of our destiny now, because that's the behavior He wants us to have for now, that's how the world is what it is.

Pro 16:9  A man's heart plans his way, But the LORD directs his steps.

But this is just the first step, maybe more like the rough/crude outline of bringing into existence/creating all of us human beings. He is shaping and molding us through certain experiences that's creating every single one of us into unique individuals. That's why we have such great diversity in life situations, environment, influences and personalities, no 2 people can possibly have the very same experiences, therefore creating the individually.

All that's happening in this world is so very intricate and complicated and it's all interwoven together, absolutely everything in the entirety of the universe is Him doing it and that's so incredible to contemplate. This is all being done by a very masterful Orchestrator to have a definite out come for each and every individual. So this is just the beginning of making all humanity into His image/likeness, perfect.

John 17:23  I in them, and You in Me; that they may be made perfect in one, and that the world may know that You have sent Me, and have loved them as You have loved Me.

If we are of the very few being finished to perfection now, that is the greatest blessing one could hope for. But for the vast majority it's in the next age that He will continue to work and shape and mold those into something good and perfected. Something worth keeping around from then on.

Heb 11:40  God having provided something better for us, that they should not be made perfect apart from us.

1Tim 2:3  For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior,
v. 4  who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.
v. 5  For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus,
v. 6  who gave Himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time,

mercy, peace and love
Kat

Joel:
Matthew 6:13 helps my understanding on this subject.

And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil; For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever, Amen.

And mayest Thou not be bringing us into trial, but rescue us from the wicked one.

Are we trying to serve God with our whole heart like Job? Or are we constantly looking for some mischief to get into is the question?

Joel

Mike Gagne:
Hi Kat!  :). I have a hard time with me being accountable for something God takes me through...,Thou hast set our iniquities before thee, our secret sins in the light of thy countenance. (Psalms 90:8 KJV), if I am somehow accountable then God is not sovereign. There is now therefore no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. And I am now starting to see God in everyone and everything, and that also makes me understand that he is revealing Himself to those who he is not keeping himself hidden from and we are few! Jesus said if you seen me you seen the father!,and as he is in this world so are we! All we do is retain knowledge!
 Also God is not letting me guide my own destiny, he is in total control and will complete his work  in me! Ahhh strange work indeed!!!    All in love...Mike

John from Kentucky:
God is responsible because He made us as we are, which is to automatically sin.  He doesn't force us to sin.  We just do it because that is our essence.

We know this because of the two scriptures, "All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God" and "There is none righteous, no not one."

However, we are accountable because from our heart we agree to sin, we love to sin.

When I sin, I am always 100% for it.  I only have regrets after the fact.

Mike Gagne:
Hi John! If God gives us that carnal nature would not that make him accountable?  Isn't that why God saves us! I never enjoyed doing the things I didn't want to do, I hated being a drug addict! If I was subjected to it how does that make me accountable? It doesn't . I knew this would be a touchy subject, but if I had to be accountable they there would be something I would have to do to save myself!.... the darkness and the light are both alike to thee. For thou hast possessed my reins:...All in love...Mike :)

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