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[loretta]

Modern research suggests that it's all in the brain, the frontal lobe to be exact.  The part of the brain that is responsible for making sound judgments/choices.  That part that gets hijacked by other parts of the brain when under stress or undue influence.  Actions that we take are not necessarily a result of free will or poor choices but involve brain chemistry.

This article is about addiction, but a brings home the truth that we have no free will.

The overwhelming majority of adults in the western world have passed through experimental stages in their lives where they have dabbled with some kind of brain altering addictive substance, i.e., cigarettes, alcohol, prescriptionpain killers, ADHD medication, anti-anxiety medication, and yes, even marijuana (save the ‘it’s not addictive” arguments for later, please).  And the overwhelming majority of these adults will emerge from their experiments unscathed, believing that their free will and good choices are what saved them from becoming addicted.

The problem with this thinking is that it is factually incorrect.  In other words, they are all wrong.

What saved them (you) from becoming addicted is that their brains did not respond in the same way that an addict’s brain does. They were born with a resistance to addiction. Their free will and good choices had nothing to do with it.

http://debbiebayerblog.com/2014/02/04/phillip-seymour-hoffman-did-not-have-choice-or-free-will-and-neither-do-you/

[microlink]

Very informative. Thanks Loretta.

[Mike Gagne]

Was it really their choice that got them addicted? Or there will? I was a drug addict and a hardcore one at that, but it wasn't buy my choice. for it is God who works in me both to will and do of His good pleasure! It is all God. No free will.

[Kat]

Hi Mike,

Yes it is all of God and there is no free will, but we certainly are held accountable for the choices 'we' make. As we are designed with intelligence and the ability to reason things out we are a very active participant in what is happening in our lives. We are not just zombies being forced to do all the things we do. Our words and actions, though all caused, we think these things through and willingly (even if it's a weakness/addiction that we just can't resist) we decide, voluntarily, to do/say/think everything that 'we' do.

Here is an email where Ray covers this.

http://bible-truths.com/email11.htm#responsibility ----

You ask how one is held "accountable" when he only did what he HAD to do? I actually do answer this in my paper, but let me relate it for you.  God has NOT given man 'free' will (the ability to make UNCAUSED choices), all of man's choices are CAUSED BY SOMETHING. But the man DOES MAKE THE CHOICES!

When you or I are confronted with a decision to either do something that we know is right, or know is wrong, we weight the options and MAKE THE CHOICE. God has absolutely given man a brain that has the ability to process information. Man CAN process information and make a choice. But it is the information itself the causes the choice one way or the other. The man cannot make a choice WITHOUT some form of information that influences or ultimately CAUSES him to make a choice. NO ONE MAKES US MAKE THE CHOICE, other unforeseen circumstances and information DOES MAKE OR CAUSE US TO CHOOSE!  True, circumstances beyond our control, which we do not see or even perceive, do cause us to MAKE a choice, but ... BUT, IN OUR OWN HEART AND MIND, WE MAKE THE CHOICE -- not someone else or something else.

But "it's all GOD" Who is ACTUALLY doing it, isn't it? NO, YOU, ACTUALLY, ARE THE ACTIVE PARTICIPANT WHO IS DOING IT! God merely brings about the circumstances that INFLUENCE AND CAUSE YOU TO DO IT! 

Now then, pay close attention to what I am saying:  Why are we held accountable for something that we absolutely COULD NOT HAVE AVOIDED?  Why?   Because at the time we made the 'voluntary' (not absolutely 'FREE,' but 'voluntary') CHOICE, it was in OUR heart and in OUR mind to DO SO. And if the choice was WRONG, or SINFUL, then WE, not GOD, must be held accountable. God takes the "responsibility" for what we did -- hence He DIED ON A CROSS FOR US, but WE are accountable for our SINFUL WRONG CHOICES.

This is the only way man will LEARN right from wrong! Adam and Eve were 'TOLD' right from wrong, but not until they actually 'EXPERIENCED' right and wrong, did it make sense to them.  IT IS WRONG TO SIN WHETHER WE WERE COERCED TO COMMIT SIN OR NOT.   "The DEVIL MADE me do it." It matters not, YOU DID IT and are therefore accountable.

Juveniles commit MILLIONS of crimes and sins for which they are not RESPONSIBLE. But, nonetheless, our own court system HOLDS THEM ACCOUNTABLE. And even human, carnal, judges take this factor into consideration when handing out penalties.

It is the PENALTY that also CAUSES US TO CHOOSE RIGHTLY after we have chosen WRONGLY! When we burn our fingers on a hot stove, we LEARN to not touch a hot stove.

God has developed a "ways and means" to accomplish His righteous end, plan, and purpose. And God's ways are VERY WISE -- they WORK, and they work very well!  We have this absolute promise from God:

"When Thy JUDGMENTS are in the earth, the inhabitants of the world, WILL LEARN RIGHTEOUSNESS" (Isa. 26:9)!!!

God be with you,
Ray

[Mike Gagne]

Hi Kat! If it was my choice I would have stop it way before God stop it! I have been struggling to see it the way LRay and You are stating. I hated who I was and if it was my choice I would not have kept doing it. I just see God in complete control over my whole life,scriptures like these make complete sense with a God who is in complete control, totally sovereign!...O Lord, thou hast searched me, and known me. Thou knowest my downsitting and mine uprising, thou understandest my thought afar off. Thou compassest my path and my lying down, and art acquainted with all my ways. For there is not a word in my tongue, but, lo, O Lord, thou knowest it altogether. Thou hast beset me behind and before, and laid thine hand upon me. Such knowledge is too wonderful for me; it is high, I cannot attain unto it. Whither shall I go from thy spirit? or whither shall I flee from thy presence? If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there. If I take the wings of the morning, and dwell in the uttermost parts of the sea; Even there shall thy hand lead me, and thy right hand shall hold me. If I say, Surely the darkness shall cover me; even the night shall be light about me. Yea, the darkness hideth not from thee; but the night shineth as the day: the darkness and the light are both alike to thee. For thou hast possessed my reins: thou hast covered me in my mother's womb.

Thine eyes did see my substance, yet being unperfect; and in thy book all my members were written, which in continuance were fashioned, when as yet there was none of them. (Psalms 139:1-13, 16 KJV)...   For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I. If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good. Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not. For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do. Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me. For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin. (Romans 7:15-25 KJV)....there are so many scriptures that only make sense when God is completely sovereign. I think this is a touchy subject for some, but I believe that God is in complete control of everything and nothing is left up to us, this to me would take away from a sovereign God......Thou turnest man to destruction; and sayest, Return, ye children of men.

Thou hast set our iniquities before thee, our secret sins in the light of thy countenance. For all our days are passed away in thy wrath: we spend our years as a tale that is told.

And let the beauty of the Lord our God be upon us: and establish thou the work of our hands upon us; yea, the work of our hands establish thou it. (Psalms 90:3, 8, 9, 17 KJV)....this is why I have a hard time seeing it the way you see it... There are hundreds of these scriptures....Anyhow this is all in love...Mike

[Kat]

Hi Mike,

Oh I'm certainly am not saying that our accountability takes away any degree of God's sovereignty, not at all.

Heb 1:3  who being the brightness of His glory and the express image of His person, and upholding all things by the word of His power... (also the YLT has it) bearing up also the all things...

Col 1:17  And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist (NKJV); has its cohesion (CLV); hold together (Rotherham)

If God stepped back, even for an instant, everything would just vanish away. But this experience in this life is for 'our' benefit, for 'us' to learn by and that's why God made it so we have to answer and learn, gain knowledge from what we do. He is giving all of us this life experience and what we gain from it is very important, even critical that we learn about good and evil now, to form a base character. He has this all planned out and yes it will go exactly as He has ordained it to be down to the most minute detail.

Isa 46:10  Declaring the end from the beginning, And from ancient times things that are not yet done, Saying, 'My counsel shall stand, And I will do all My pleasure,'

It also is intended that mankind not be aware that God is directing our every step, or is indeed sovereign. He is letting us think we have control of our destiny now, because that's the behavior He wants us to have for now, that's how the world is what it is.

Pro 16:9  A man's heart plans his way, But the LORD directs his steps.

But this is just the first step, maybe more like the rough/crude outline of bringing into existence/creating all of us human beings. He is shaping and molding us through certain experiences that's creating every single one of us into unique individuals. That's why we have such great diversity in life situations, environment, influences and personalities, no 2 people can possibly have the very same experiences, therefore creating the individually.

All that's happening in this world is so very intricate and complicated and it's all interwoven together, absolutely everything in the entirety of the universe is Him doing it and that's so incredible to contemplate. This is all being done by a very masterful Orchestrator to have a definite out come for each and every individual. So this is just the beginning of making all humanity into His image/likeness, perfect.

John 17:23  I in them, and You in Me; that they may be made perfect in one, and that the world may know that You have sent Me, and have loved them as You have loved Me.

If we are of the very few being finished to perfection now, that is the greatest blessing one could hope for. But for the vast majority it's in the next age that He will continue to work and shape and mold those into something good and perfected. Something worth keeping around from then on.

Heb 11:40  God having provided something better for us, that they should not be made perfect apart from us.

1Tim 2:3  For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior,
v. 4  who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.
v. 5  For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus,
v. 6  who gave Himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time,

mercy, peace and love
Kat

[Joel]

Matthew 6:13 helps my understanding on this subject.

And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil; For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever, Amen.

And mayest Thou not be bringing us into trial, but rescue us from the wicked one.

Are we trying to serve God with our whole heart like Job? Or are we constantly looking for some mischief to get into is the question?

Joel

[Mike Gagne]

Hi Kat!  . I have a hard time with me being accountable for something God takes me through...,Thou hast set our iniquities before thee, our secret sins in the light of thy countenance. (Psalms 90:8 KJV), if I am somehow accountable then God is not sovereign. There is now therefore no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. And I am now starting to see God in everyone and everything, and that also makes me understand that he is revealing Himself to those who he is not keeping himself hidden from and we are few! Jesus said if you seen me you seen the father!,and as he is in this world so are we! All we do is retain knowledge!
 Also God is not letting me guide my own destiny, he is in total control and will complete his work  in me! Ahhh strange work indeed!!!    All in love...Mike

[John from Kentucky]

God is responsible because He made us as we are, which is to automatically sin.  He doesn't force us to sin.  We just do it because that is our essence.

We know this because of the two scriptures, "All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God" and "There is none righteous, no not one."

However, we are accountable because from our heart we agree to sin, we love to sin.

When I sin, I am always 100% for it.  I only have regrets after the fact.

[Mike Gagne]

Hi John! If God gives us that carnal nature would not that make him accountable?  Isn't that why God saves us! I never enjoyed doing the things I didn't want to do, I hated being a drug addict! If I was subjected to it how does that make me accountable? It doesn't . I knew this would be a touchy subject, but if I had to be accountable they there would be something I would have to do to save myself!.... the darkness and the light are both alike to thee. For thou hast possessed my reins:...All in love...Mike

[Mike Gagne]

Lol, God isn't holding us accountable, He's birthing children!!    All in love...Mike. Let me edit! God is getting the natural ready to be birthed the spiritual,God is getting the mortal ready to be birthed immortal, God is getting corruption ready to be birthed incorruption,God is getting weakness ready to be birthed in power,God is getting dishonour ready to be birthed in glory!! ...All in love Mike.

[Kat]

Hi Mike,

The thing is 'you' were the one doing what you did, just like we all do... so I am only accountable for myself. God designed it so we are held accountable, if we were not then we could/would have no reason to stop bad behavior. This is so we can 'learn,' and even if we don't get it figured out in this life, well it will be taught to us in the judgement of the next age.

So we do what we do, even if we don't enjoy it...  and we all will answer to God.

Rom 14:15  Yet if your brother is grieved because of your food, you are no longer walking in love. Do not destroy with your food the one for whom Christ died.
 
Heb 4:13  And there is no creature hidden from His sight, but all things are naked and open to the eyes of Him to whom we must give account.

1Peter 4:3  For we have spent enough of our past lifetimefn in doing the will of the Gentiles—when we walked in lewdness, lusts, drunkenness, revelries, drinking parties, and abominable idolatries.
v. 4  In regard to these, they think it strange that you do not run with them in the same flood of dissipation, speaking evil of you.
v. 5  They will give an account to Him who is ready to judge the living and the dead.

1Co 3:12  Now if anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw,
v. 13  each one’s work will become clear; for the Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire; and the fire will test each one’s work, of what sort it is.
v. 14  If anyone’s work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward.
v. 15  If anyone’s work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.

mercy, peace and love
kat

[Rene]

God designed it so we are held accountable, if we were not then we could/would have no reason to stop bad behavior. This is so we can 'learn,' and even if we don't get it figured out in this life, well it will be taught to us in the judgement of the next age.

In harmony with what Kathy is saying, being "accountable" to God is a part of His Master Plan.  It is a form of "judgment" whereby we will learn righteousness, and it is through judgment that we will be saved.  This is a good and marvelous thing!

Romans 14:10b-12 -..."For all of us, shall present ourselves unto the judgment seat of God; For it is written—Living am I, saith the Lord, unto Me, shall bow every knee and every tongue shall openly confess unto God. Hence, [then] each one of us, of himself shall give account unto God." (Rotherham's)

Isaiah 26:9b - "For when your judgments are in the earth, the inhabitants of the world learn righteousness." (ESV)

As Ray once stated, "The final judgments of God will bring salvation to all!" http://bible-truths.com/lake6.html

René






 

[lilitalienboi16]

God is responsible because He made us as we are, which is to automatically sin.  He doesn't force us to sin.  We just do it because that is our essence.

We know this because of the two scriptures, "All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God" and "There is none righteous, no not one."

However, we are accountable because from our heart we agree to sin, we love to sin.

When I sin, I am always 100% for it.  I only have regrets after the fact.

Ain't that the truth? It always comes afterwards and then you start to feel like there are two people raging inside of you.

Romans 7:22-24 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

Galatians 5:17 "For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would."

Mark 7:20-23 "And he said, That which cometh out of the man, that defileth the man.  For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, Thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness: All these evil things come from within, and defile the man."

Ecclesiastes 3:18 I said in mine heart concerning the estate of the sons of men, that God might manifest them, and that they might see that they themselves are beasts.

Alex

[Mike Gagne]

Hi Kat!  The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world. (John 1:29 KJV).    For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; (1 Corinthians 15:3 KJV).   Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father: (Galatians 1:4 KJV).    Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high; (Hebrews 1:3 KJV).   So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation. (Hebrews 9:28 KJV).  Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed. (1 Peter 2:24 KJV).                                                Well I don't see anything to be accountable for according to theses scriptures... I have used scriptures in this string that really says what I am saying.  Here's the last thing I will post on this, here is a man trying to be accountable to God.....         Moreover the Lord answered Job, and said, Shall he that contendeth with the Almighty instruct him? he that reproveth God, let him answer it. Then Job answered the Lord, and said, Behold, I am vile; what shall I answer thee? I will lay mine hand upon my mouth. Once have I spoken; but I will not answer: yea, twice; but I will proceed no further. Then answered the Lord unto Job out of the whirlwind, and said, Gird up thy loins now like a man: I will demand of thee, and declare thou unto me. Wilt thou also disannul my judgment? wilt thou condemn me, that thou mayest be righteous? Hast thou an arm like God? or canst thou thunder with a voice like him? Deck thyself now with majesty and excellency; and array thyself with glory and beauty. Cast abroad the rage of thy wrath: and behold every one that is proud, and abase him. Look on every one that is proud, and bring him low; and tread down the wicked in their place. Hide them in the dust together; and bind their faces in secret. Then will I also confess unto thee that thine own right hand can save thee. (Job 40:1-14 KJV)..... All in love...Mike

[lilitalienboi16]

Hi Kat!  The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world. (John 1:29 KJV).    For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; (1 Corinthians 15:3 KJV).   Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father: (Galatians 1:4 KJV).    Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high; (Hebrews 1:3 KJV).   So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation. (Hebrews 9:28 KJV).  Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed. (1 Peter 2:24 KJV).                                                Well I don't see anything to be accountable for according to theses scriptures... I have used scriptures in this string that really says what I am saying.  Here's the last thing I will post on this, here is a man trying to be accountable to God.....         Moreover the Lord answered Job, and said, Shall he that contendeth with the Almighty instruct him? he that reproveth God, let him answer it. Then Job answered the Lord, and said, Behold, I am vile; what shall I answer thee? I will lay mine hand upon my mouth. Once have I spoken; but I will not answer: yea, twice; but I will proceed no further. Then answered the Lord unto Job out of the whirlwind, and said, Gird up thy loins now like a man: I will demand of thee, and declare thou unto me. Wilt thou also disannul my judgment? wilt thou condemn me, that thou mayest be righteous? Hast thou an arm like God? or canst thou thunder with a voice like him? Deck thyself now with majesty and excellency; and array thyself with glory and beauty. Cast abroad the rage of thy wrath: and behold every one that is proud, and abase him. Look on every one that is proud, and bring him low; and tread down the wicked in their place. Hide them in the dust together; and bind their faces in secret. Then will I also confess unto thee that thine own right hand can save thee. (Job 40:1-14 KJV)..... All in love...Mike

James 1:12-13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:  But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.

Ecclesiastes 12:14 For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it is good or evil.

Romans 14:12 So then, each of us will give an account of ourselves to God.


Here is a promise that we will be held accountable for what we say. Do you think our actions are somehow different?

Matthew 12: 36 "But I tell you that for every careless word that men shall speak they will be held accountable on the day of Judgement."

Can you judge a man's conduct when he cannot be held accountable for his actions?

Rev 20:12 "And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing in front of the throne. And books were opened; and so was another book--namely, the Book of Life; and the dead were judged by the things recorded in the books in accordance with what their conduct had been."

Revelation 20:13 "And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works."

Pay attention here, its not man's body that is being judged sinful, its man's WORKS, HIS ACTIONS. He is being held ACCOUNTABLE!

Can you get beat for doing something you are not accountable for?

Luke 12:47-48 "And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes. But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more."

God has held his people accountable for their ways in the past and God does not change. Do you think you're somehow special in the matter? (God is no respecter of persons).

Ezekiel 18:30 "Therefore I will judge you, O house of Israel, every one according to his ways, saith the Lord God. Repent, and turn yourselves from all your transgressions; so iniquity shall not be your ruin."

There are countless examples in the scriptures of individuals being held accountable and then chastised, punished, or destroyed for what they are now being held accountable for.

You are no different, you will be held accountable and I have a feeling that anyone who thinks they will escape judgement are the very same who will not receive the crown of life.

God bless,
Alex

P.S. Job in no way contradicts or detracts from the fact that you are accountable for your actions and words.

[Mike Gagne]

 There is only 144.000 that are either being judged or who have been judged in there lake of fire/Jesus and will be apart of the first resurrection! I don't see in scripture where you will have to go through the lake of fire twice! Your carnal accountable nature won't make it into the first resurrection,self won't be in that resurrection. God will resurrect sons and they will not have a carnal nature standing there ready to give account. God will have burned that carnal nature out in the lake of Jesus/fire.....All in love Mike 

[lilitalienboi16]

There is only 144.000 that are either being judged or who have been judged in there lake of fire/Jesus and will be apart of the first resurrection! I don't see in scripture where you will have to go through the lake of fire twice! Your carnal accountable nature won't make it into the first resurrection,self won't be in that resurrection. God will resurrect sons and they will not have a carnal nature standing there ready to give account. God will have burned that carnal nature out in the lake of Jesus/fire.....All in love Mike 

First off, there are not two separate resurrections, there is only one. That mention of the second is SPURIOUS and does not exist in the earliest manuscripts.

I don't know if anyone mentioned going through the lake of fire twice. We are in agreement that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of heaven. The elect will be resurrected with spiritual bodies and be like Christ. I agree with this. I wouldn't use the term sons and daughters though, that is a bit too broad in my opinion. Yes, God will have tried, refined and purified the elect at this point and so they will not be standing carnal to give an account.

What does this have to do, exactly, with humanity being accountable to God for its actions? That each individual is accountable, for what he or she has done, to God? Could you clarify?

[Mike Gagne]

Well if you can save yourself then you go ahead and be accountable! I am being judged right now, and Gods judgements are righteous. And it is him who does his will and good pleasure in me! And when he is  done I will be ready for the birth....  And maybe read Job and ask God to show you what he's saying...    All the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing, does this mean anything to you?     All in love Mike

[lilitalienboi16]

Well if you can save yourself then you go ahead and be accountable! I am being judged right now, and Gods judgements are righteous. And it is him who does his will and good pleasure in me! And when he is  done I will be ready for the birth....  And maybe read Job and ask God to show you what he's saying...    All the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing, does this mean anything to you?     All in love Mike

Being Judged for what Mike? According to you, you've done nothing wrong. It's all God's doing, you're not one bit accountable.

Alex