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Gen 1 v 26 Gen 2v 7 & 9 2 creations ??
santgem:
Hello Kat,
Greetings!
Yes we know that a bible is full of symbolism and a bible is a big parables.
Again, when you see the Genesis v.24 there already a notion of man leaving his father and mother wherein there are no parents yet at the beginning of Adam and Eve. What i am saying is that Genesis is written not in a chronological order.
Gen 2:23 And Man said, This time it is bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh: this shall be called Woman, because this was taken out of a man.
Gen 2:24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and cleave to his wife; and they shall become one flesh.
Gen 2:25 And they were both naked, Man and his wife, and were not ashamed.
What we cannot deny is the fact that all of us must experience death except from "twinkling of an eye."
@ Kat
Also this could very well explain how there was other people living in the world at the time Adam and Eve were created... because the Bible does not address them and is not speaking to or about them. Now in the NT I wondering if that isn't who the Gentiles are...
As for your quote,
if ever there was other people living in the world at the time of Adam and Eve were created then they will not experience death and maybe they were still here on earth or roaming around the universe. Just joking ;)
The mere fact is that because of Adam or through Adam we experience death and all of us will experience that except "twinkling of an eye."
If there will be another human at the time of Adam how come that they also include in experiencing death and if not the world is not enough.
@Kat
Rom 5:12 Therefore, just as through one man (Adam) sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned
How could this be 'literally' attributed to Adam?
In my understanding that this is literally attributed to Adam. When Eve sinned it was only the part of Adam that is sinned and when Adam take the sin from Eve because of Love then all the parts of Adam was sinned for He is the first Man that is created.
Sorry for my English, i am not fluent! :-\
Kat:
Hi santgem,
http://bible-truths.com/lake4.html -----------
A parable is a story that contains in figurative or symbolic language a higher moral or spiritual truth.
v
Many people have tried to tell me that parables are to be taken literally. What they don’t realize is that they are talking about square circles. The very reason a parable is called a parable is so that we will know for sure that whatever is contained in the parable IS NOT LITERAL. Parables require spiritual understanding. Some require little (albeit some) spiritual understanding.
----------------------------------------------------
So I'm thinking if these stories in Genesis are parable and I think they are, then basically there is much more to what is being literally said. Yes these were real people that lived, but the story/parable has a much higher spiritual meaning than what is actually said.
The chronological order is not a factor, as the symbolism and the hidden meaning transcends that. How can we figure out these symbols and the meaning of the parable, well that is tricky and that is why the Bible is such a mystery. Understanding the plan of God and how He is working in this world makes all the difference in understanding parables.
--- Quote ---Again, when you see the Genesis v.24 there already a notion of man leaving his father and mother wherein there are no parents yet at the beginning of Adam and Eve. What i am saying is that Genesis is written not in a chronological order.
Gen 2:23 And Man said, This time it is bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh: this shall be called Woman, because this was taken out of a man.
Gen 2:24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and cleave to his wife; and they shall become one flesh.
--- End quote ---
When you understand that Adam represents all of mankind, then you can understand that this spoken about leaving father and mother and cleaving to a wife is speaking of part of God's plan for humans. So it's not literally just speaking of Adam, but he is used in the parable to get this understanding across. Then you can carrying this same way of thinking (parabolic) over to Adam being the cause of sin and death...
Rom 5:12 Therefore, just as through one man (Adam) sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned.
So if there were other people living before Adam, were they sinless? Of course they were not, all mankind is carnal from birth in this age. But if they were not taught about sin, right and wrong, then what?
Rom 5:13 for until the Law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed (recorded, accounted) when there is no law.
It is only through Adam's line that God begins to teaches right/righteous from wrong beginning with Adam and recorded through the law given to Moses. But Paul explains that even if somebody doesn't know about the law, death still reigns and comes to all men.
Rom 5:14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those who had not sinned according to the likeness of the transgression of Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come.
So my point was that Adam represents mankind and Paul saying that it was by the first man, Adam that, "sin entered the world, and death through sin" is not to be taken literally. Paul is speaking of the condition of mankind in this age, all have sinned, all will die. It's a parable about God's plan. God only vaguely revealed His plan of salvation in the OT, it was not until the "second man" came on the scene that a remedy for this seemingly hopeless condition of sin and death appeared, Jesus the Christ.
Rom 5:15 But the free gift is not like the offense. For if by the one man's offense many died, much more the grace of God and the gift by the grace of the one Man, Jesus Christ, abounded to many.
Jesus was not literally the "second" man... it's all a parable about God's plan of salvation written throughout the Bible, hidden in plain sight.
1Co 2:4 And my speech and my preaching were not with persuasive words of human wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power,
v. 5 that your faith should not be in the wisdom of men but in the power of God.
v. 6 However, we speak wisdom among those who are mature, yet not the wisdom of this age, nor of the rulers of this age, who are coming to nothing.
v. 7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, the hidden wisdom which God ordained before the ages for our glory,
mercy, peace and love
Kat
santgem:
Hello Kat,
Greetings!
I agree most of what had you said but there are some things that bothered me.
--- Quote ---Now when speaking of Adam being the "first man," I'm wondering if that means the first that God has begun the work of salvation through or started it with him. And then you can carry that over to see how Adam was attributed as how "sin entered the world," because it was through his line that God would teach exactly what sin is. Not that he was the first to sin, but it was through him - his line that explained that it was through sin that spiritual "dead" occurred.
--- End quote ---
In my opinion there will be no other line besides Adam. It is only through Adam and there is no other line. When you are telling the word "line", what appeared in my mind is that there will be other people besides Adam and Eve at the time of their creation.
If there will be other line or people or as you have said,
--- Quote ---there was other people living in the world at the time Adam and Eve were created
--- End quote ---
If the other people were outside sin, and we understand that Adam was the first to sin and all sinned of the line of Adam, then it follows that these other people are still alive today because the wages of sin is death. (Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death),They will not experience death because they are outside sin. Now the question is, where are these people now?
Am i going to fast or outside the point?
The scripture told us that,
--- Quote ---Then the LORD God said, "It is not good for the man to be alone. I will make a helper who is just right for him." Gen 2:18
--- End quote ---
the first man is not good to be alone. Meaning at the start of their creation Adam is alone and therefore Adam is the First.
other thing is that
--- Quote ---The LORD God placed the man in the Garden of Eden to tend and watch over it.Gen 2:15
--- End quote ---
There He placed the man whom He had formed and is not saying men.
Ian 155:
Santgen
I don't think confusing, it is a matter of interpretation though - 1st verse in Genesis is the state of the dead or those not in Christ ( I believe ) the light comes and eradicates the darkness there is a separation - I believe the second /3rd verse are prophecies about Christ Jesus - there are many scriptures that connect Jesus to Light.
Cain in 1 John is referred to as his father being of the Devil - Cain is not mentioned in Genealogy of Adam.
things written by Moses being a type of Christ - one can be physically born from Adams seed yet still have a different spiritual Father . As was said by Jesus about his betrayer and about the Pharisees (he is a Devil and you are of your father the devil)
So the mystery wont be solved by logic - The Law prohibits inter family sexual relations - one can say but the law only came later however the word is the same Yesterday ,today and tomorrow so no Adam must represent humanity and Seth represents something as well as Cain represent another - Esau another this is not something we don't know this is different types of people or nations and it all boils down to Many and The few ... Adam is a type of ,Moses is a type of Joshua ,Joseph etc
keep reading and asking
Ian
santgem:
--- Quote from: Ian 155 on June 25, 2014, 03:41:40 AM ---Santgen
I don't think confusing, it is a matter of interpretation though - 1st verse in Genesis is the state of the dead or those not in Christ ( I believe ) the light comes and eradicates the darkness there is a separation - I believe the second /3rd verse are prophecies about Christ Jesus - there are many scriptures that connect Jesus to Light.
Cain in 1 John is referred to as his father being of the Devil - Cain is not mentioned in Genealogy of Adam.
things written by Moses being a type of Christ - one can be physically born from Adams seed yet still have a different spiritual Father . As was said by Jesus about his betrayer and about the Pharisees (he is a Devil and you are of your father the devil)
So the mystery wont be solved by logic - The Law prohibits inter family sexual relations - one can say but the law only came later however the word is the same Yesterday ,today and tomorrow so no Adam must represent humanity and Seth represents something as well as Cain represent another - Esau another this is not something we don't know this is different types of people or nations and it all boils down to Many and The few ... Adam is a type of ,Moses is a type of Joshua ,Joseph etc
keep reading and asking
Ian
--- End quote ---
Hi Ian,
Greetings!
Since you mentioned Seth represents something and Cain represent another, i will both answer you and Kat.
Kats
--- Quote ---Rom 5:12 Therefore, just as through one man (Adam) sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned—
How could this be 'literally' attributed to Adam?
What has accrued to me is it seems like the Bible was written to and about "God's people," so that is what it is 'mostly' speaking of. I say mostly because there are times when others are mentioned... aliens, foreigners, strangers, etc, I believe these could have been the people living at the time Adam was brought onto the scene.
Now when speaking of Adam being the "first man," I'm wondering if that means the first that God has begun the work of salvation through or started it with him. And then you can carry that over to see how Adam was attributed as how "sin entered the world," because it was through his line that God would teach exactly what sin is. Not that he was the first to sin, but it was through him - his line that explained that it was through sin that spiritual "dead" occurred.
--- End quote ---
There is mentioning about God's people and this God's people is in the line of Seth. And to Seth, to him also there was born a son; and he called his name Enos: then began men to call upon the name of the LORD. Gen 4:26 This is the start whereby men is starting to call upon the name of the Lord. Also, in the line of Seth you will see that; And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him.Gen 5:24.....This means that God is with them that is why they are called God's people.
now look at for Cain.
Behold, thou hast driven me out this day from the face of the earth; and from thy face shall I be hid; and I shall be a fugitive and a vagabond in the earth; and it shall come to pass, that every one that findeth me shall slay me.Gen 4:14
And Cain went out from the presence of the LORD, and dwelt in the land of Nod, on the east of Eden Gen 4:16
did you notice the Phrase "Cain went out from the presence of the Lord". Yes! Cain went out the presence of the Lord and Cain line then therefore will not be called God's children but instead be called daughters of men or sons of men.
Gen 6:2That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.
This sons of God saw the daughters of men are the descendants of Adam Through Seth and Cain. They were not the descendants of other people but for Adam. Seth for sons of God and Cain for daughters of men.
There will be only Adam at the start and there will be no other created beings beside Adams with the Scriptures backing.
Now for the Genesis 5. I think Ray had that explanation of Adam having two TOTUtsssssss! ;D
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