Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[lareli]

What is it about the great false church that makes it the false church.. Is it the hell doctrine and free will doctrine? The church that I grew up in was never big on the fire and brimstone preaching.. Actually I went to a bible study there once where the guy was teaching that hell wasn't real..

Also, why does God answer their prayers if they are praying to a false god?

[Kat]

Hi largeli,

Here is something about how the church went into apostasy, Ray painted a pretty vivid picture of what happened and it's the same to this day.

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,5815.0.html -----

Peter thought, well this is the last days.  Now he was right, he was inspired to write that because God did start pouring out His Spirit on Pentecost.  So that was the last days.  How long do the last days last?  Until they are over.  It’s been a pretty long time.  But he didn’t finish the prophecy, he quoted Joel, but he didn’t finish all of Joel.  Because it doesn’t all fit then.  But the portion that he did quote, it does fit then. 

You say, ‘but didn’t it mention heavenly signs.’  He said, you know these people aren’t drunk.  These people are like the people that prophesied in Joel,  where it says they shall dream dreams and see visions, all of that.  And the sun shall not give it’s light and the moon shall turn to blood. 

Acts 2:20  The sun shall be turned into darkness, And the moon into blood, Before the day of the Lord come, That great and notable day.

Did that happen on Pentecost?  Yes it did!  How so?  How did the sun not give it’s light?  How did the moon instead of reflecting light, turn to blood? 

Light is symbolic of God’s Truth.  Jesus Christ is the light.  The brightest physical symbol of light, brightness, this is our sun.  So light comes from the strongest source.  God - Jesus Christ is that light. 

John the Baptist said, “that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light,” (John 3:19).  But He was that light.  The Son gives light, that’s direct revelation from God.

Now the moon is the reflected light.  That should come through the church and through the ministry.  They get it from the Son.  The moon (church) reflects it’s light from the Son (Christ), it doesn’t have it’s own light (Truth).  If the sun went out, the moon would go out, because the moon has no light, it’s reflected light. 
So as the ministry gets light, they give it to the congregation, they feed the sheep. 

But what did He say would happen, starting on Pentecost?  The sun/Son isn’t going to give it’s light anymore.  God is not going to give direct light to the people anymore.  The light that should be coming, that was already given to the moon, to be reflected, now it’s not going to give it’s light.  It’s going to be turned to blood.  What is this talking about?

Their revelation from God was going to cease.  Apostasy is going to set in.  The church is going to go amuck and instead of teaching the light from God and passing it on, they are going to turn to blood.  How so?

Well on that very day they stoned Stephen (Acts 7).  Instead of giving light to the world as a secondary light, they turned to blood.  They turned murderers. 
Tomorrow we are going to go through and see how many men, who wanted to present God’s Word to everyday people like us, they had to pay with their lives.  Well who would do such a dastardly thing?  The moon!  The secondary light of God’s Truth - the church - the Popes - the Bishops.  If you even had…. you didn’t have to teach it or even read it, if you were found with a copy of Tyndale’s Bible, you were put to death.  I mean it was pretty bad.

Tyndale was burned at the stake.  Russ was burned at the stake, lots of people were burned at the stake.  They kind of took the Catholics out of England for a while.  Then bloody Mary came back and she wanted to bring back the Catholic church.  Then she started burning people at the stake.  She said, ‘I’m not doing anything to these people, that God isn’t going to do to them for all eternity.  I’m not doing anything wrong.’  She didn’t see anything wrong with burning people at the stake.  It’s unbelievable. 

Calvin didn’t see anything wrong with burning people at the stake either.  That man is so adored by so many.  I mean considered the greatest theologian.  He was, I mean absolutely the scum of the earth. 

Martin Luther although he did a lot of good things, you just read what his attitude was towards the peasants.  ‘Kill them all and make it dirty, make it fast.’  No mercy.

So it did start then.  They went from teaching God’s Truth, they turned their hands to blood.  They killed Stephen, a real saintly man, they killed him and gnawed on him with their teeth.  They just despised that man.  You don’t know what hatred is.  Like I’ve said so many times, hell hath no fury like a Christian who’s just been told the Truth.
----------------------------------------------------------

mercy, peace and love
Kat

[Extol]

There are a lot of things, but I think hell and free will are by far the two biggest, because those are the doctrines that a) deny God's love and b) deny God's sovereignty. Ray said at the 2006 conference "the biggest blasphemers of God Almighty: the Church!" No matter how well they know the Bible, no matter how kind and caring they are, no matter how many good works they perform...if, at the end of the day, they still think most people are going to hell forever, they despise the word of God and blaspheme His name.

Remember Christ's words to the Pharisees? Fools, hypocrites, snakes....Ray noted in "Repentance and Guilty of All":

Let me tell you something, the scribes and the Pharisees never taught a doctrine this damnable. You listen to Jesus Christ. He called them everything but… I won’t say it. They never taught a doctrine half, a tenth, not a billionth as evil as what the church is teaching today. I’m telling you, this teaching of hell is the ultimate blasphemy. There is no greater sin that any human being can think or do, than to believe that the God that they worship will actually torture their mothers and fathers and some of their sisters and brothers and relatives in real fire for all eternity. It’s the ultimate sin. They think they are doing God a favor by teaching this.

As to your second question, God answering their prayers does not in any way prove that what they are teaching is right. (I have no doubt that people of other traditions and beliefs have also experienced answers to prayer, healings, etc.)  Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? Matthew 7:22. They really did do these works, they aren't just making that up. I think that's part of Satan "appearing as an angel of light" (2 Cor. 11:14).

In that 2006 conference, Ray adds something important to keep in mind: "But we need the Church, don't be too hard on it. Let me tell you something: God doesn't call anyone to be one of His favorite chosen elect except from the Church. So we don't want to pooh-pooh the Church too bad, because that's where He gets His elect."

[lareli]

Thanks Kat and Extol..

Ray said God doesn't choose the elect except from the church... So if my wife and kids want to go to church, but I have 'come out of her' what can I do? I mean personally I don't mind going. But I've read comments on here to the effect of 'run the other way as fast as you can!' When it comes to going to church..

But then I remember listening to an audio where Ray talked about how he would go to church sometimes.. I can't find it but I think I saw it on YouTube. Ray was talking about how his son died and the pastor was super insensitive about it and used the tradgedy to challenge Ray about his beliefs pertaining to Gods will.. I hope I'm remembering that correctly.

[Kat]

Hi largely,

I think what you heard Ray say about going to church was before he understood these truths and exactly what the is.

If your family want to go to church and even you for that matter, then go. When it is time for you to come out the Holy Spirit indwelling will make it so uncomfortable to listen to their rhetoric you will have to come out.

We keep calling the organized church "THE church"... now the group that became the body of Christ, He called "MY church." Here is where this is explained in the article 'What Happened to the Church Jesus Built?.'
 
http://bible-truths.com/lake8.html -------------

Jesus Christ said,

"I will build MY CHURCH and the gates of hell [hades/ unseen/ grave] shall not prevail [be prevailing] against it" (Matt. 16:18).

Prevail means to be of greater strength, to overcome, or to win out. So clearly from this statement, our Lord is telling us that His church will be under GREAT ATTACK AND ADVERSITY, however these evil forces will not prevail or be victorious in totally defeating His Church or bringing it to naught.

Let’s see just how the "gates of hell" have been attempting to annihilate the Church of God ever since its inception. And maybe even more important to my readers: Will everyone in the Church that Jesus built be in the first resurrection and rule and reign with Him in His kingdom? I will state right here, that the majority which make up the Seven Churches of Revelation will, most assuredly not, be in the first resurrection.

Let’s pick up at our parting Scripture from Part VII of this Series:

"And Saul [Paul] was consenting unto his [Stephen’s] death. And at that time there was a GREAT PERSECUTION AGAINST THE CHURCH which was at Jerusalem; and they were ALL SCATTERED ABROAD throughout the regions of Judaea and Samaria, except the apostles… As for Saul, he made HAVOCK of the church, entering into every house, and hailing men and women committed them to prison. Therefore they that were SCATTERED ABROAD went every where preaching the word" (Acts 8:1,3-4).

"THE" CHURCH VS. "MY" CHURCH

During Jesus’ ministry, He spoke of "the" church and "My" church. There already existed "the church" (Matt. 18:17), at the very time that Jesus said He would build "MY CHURCH" (Matt. 16:18). For fifteen centuries God established Israel as a church:

"This is that Moses, which said unto the children of Israel, ‘A Prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; Him shall ye hear.’ This is HE, that was in the CHURCH in the wilderness with the angel which spoke to him in the mount Sinai, and with our fathers who received the lively oracles to give unto us: To whom our fathers WOULD NOT OBEY, but thrust him from them, and in their hearts turned back again into Egypt" (Acts 7:37-39).

We could, of course, trace the church back through Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, back to Noah, and indeed, back to Adam.
------------------------------------------------------

I thought of another place in an article specifically about who is in charge of the church after it's apostasy. Here is an excerpt from the article 'The Synagogue of Satan - There's One Near You.'

http://bible-truths.com/lake10.html ------------

A TRUTH NO LONGER TOLD IN SUNDAY SCHOOL OR CHURCH

John tells us that Satan has a "synagogue." Synagogue means "a gathering together, an assembly, a congregation." This should not sound strange to our ears, seeing that we have already learned from Paul’s writings:
 
"For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed as into an angel of light. Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the minister of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their work."

And so Satan has "false apostles," and "ministers of righteousness." Where then would we expect these false apostles and ministers of righteousness that belong to Satan, to reside? Why in "The synagogue of Satan," of course! And what do Satan’s ministers do that enables them to "deceive the whole world?" Paul again tells us:

"Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders."

And just where might we find such a "synagogue of Satan, with false apostles, and false ministers of righteousness, witnessing to the world with power, and signs and lying wonders?"

Certainly not in some macabre-looking, haunted-house structure with a giant marquee out front reading: "COME AND WORSHIP WITH SATAN AND HIS DEMONS"!

WHERE IS THE SYNAGOGUE OF SATAN?

The synagogue of Satan is located in the churches—in The Church!

"…you have tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and have found them liars"  (Rev. 2:2.)

Where did the Ephesians try those false, lying, apostles? In some pagan temple or church down the street, or across town, or in some foreign land? Or maybe in the pagan religion of the Roman occupation? No, in the Church. Jesus Christ says:

"Unto the angel of the church of Ephesus write… thou have tried them which say they are apostles  [in the church of Ephesus], and are not" (Rev. 2:1a & 2b.)

Where did Jesus know these lying apostles? Why, in the Church, of course. Of what consequence would "lying apostles" of some pagan religion be to the churches of God in Asia?

And where did Jesus say the synagogue of Satan is located? Same place—in the Church:

"And unto the angel of the church in Smyrna write… I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews  [in the Smyrna church], and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan… And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write… I will make them of the synagogue of Satan [in the Philadelphia church], and are not but do lie…" (Rev. 2:8 & 9; 3:7 & 9.)

All seven of the churches were well aware of many pagan gods and pagan religions. These seven cities in Asia were filled with MANY PAGAN GODS.

The non-believing Ephesians worshipped Diana, who was associated with Artemis. Smyrna had temples to Apollo, Asclepia, Aphrodite, Cybele, Emperor Tiberius, and Zeus, and maybe most important of all, the Temple of Athena. Pergamum worshiped Zeus, Olympus, Athena, Dionysus, Asclepius ("The Saviour",) and also the God-Serpent and the God-Bull. Thyatira worshiped the Emperor, Thyatiran, Tyrimnos, and Pallas Athena. Sardis worshiped the goddess Artemis, and both goddesses Artemis and Cybele were commemorated on their local coinage. Philadelphia worshiped the sun god and serpent gods, although Dionysis was their major god. Laodicea worshiped Zeus Azeus and Men Karou.

Were these the false apostles and lying Jews of the synagogue of Satan. Was it the priests of these pagan gods and religions of the seven cities in Asia that God was warning the churches about?

Since when are the priests of paganism called APOSTLES? Since when are the followers of pagan religions and pagan gods called LYING JEWS? Since when are the temples of Zeus and Athena and Diana called SYNAGOGUES? No, these false apostles and lying Jews of the synagogue of Satan are in the churches of God.

And isn’t it ironic that in the two congregations that religious chart-makers tell us had NO spiritual flaws whatsoever, we find those residing who are specifically called lying Jews? No, Smyrna and Philadelphia, down through the centuries, have exactly the same spiritual flaws and heresies as did all of the other five churches of Asia.

THE THRONE OF SATAN THE DEVIL ALSO LOCATED

Now then, as the false apostles, and lying Jews, and synagogue of Satan are all located in the Church, where do you suppose we would find Satan’s throne, and Satan’s dwelling place to be located? Yes, that’s right: In the Church. Here is the Scriptural proof found in the messages to the church at Smyrna and Pergamos:

"Fear none of those things which you shall suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison…"  (Rev. 2:10.)

"I know your works and where you dwell, even where  [the same place where] Satan’s seat [Greek: throne] is… were Satan [also] dwells" (Rev. 2:13.)

Satan cannot imprison members of the Church unless Satan is in the Church. His throne is in the Church. His dwelling place is in the Church. His synagogue is in the Church.

And think not that Satan merely makes an occasional visit to the Church. No, Satan is permanently in the Church until God removes him. The Greek word from which the translators give us "dwelleth" in the KJV is kataoideo, and its meaning is: "To house permanently" (Strong’s Greek Dictionary, page 136.) Satan not only has his false apostles in the Church, and his congregation of unconverted lying Jews in the Church, and his synagogue in the Church, and his very throne in the Church, but Satan himself dwells permanently in the Church.
------------------------------------------------------

mercy, peace and love
Kat

[lareli]

If your family want to go to church and even you for that matter, then go. When it is time for you to come out the Holy Spirit indwelling will make it so uncomfortable to listen to their rhetoric you will have to come out.

Kat are you sure you're not taking your experience and making it the rule for everyone? Are you assuming that I haven't 'come out' because I'm not as uncomfortable as you are in a church service?

[Kat]

Hi largely,

Yes it is my experience, but I would not be an exception, the Holy Spirit would work the same way in all believers. If you believe what you are studying here is the truth, then you know the church does not teach the truth. When you come to a place where this truth/God is the most important thing, then you should realize that you have very little in common with those in church and certainly would find what they preach disturbing to your spirit. The church is very carnal mind and worldly...

James 4:4  Adulterers and adulteresses! Do you not know that friendship with the world is enmity with God? Whoever therefore wants to be a friend of the world makes himself an enemy of God.

It will come a time when you will have to make a choice or at least you should get to a point when you can see the glaring difference in the truth and what the church teaches... why remain a part of that?

Mat 6:24  "No one can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one and love the other, or else he will be loyal to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and mammon.

Rev 3:15  I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.
v. 16  So because thou art lukewarm, and neither hot nor cold, I will spew thee out of My mouth.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

[theophilus]

largeli,

As 'Ray said at the 2006 conference "the biggest blasphemers of God Almighty: the Church!" No matter how well they know the Bible, no matter how kind and caring they are, no matter how many good works they perform...if, at the end of the day, they still think most people are going to hell forever, they despise the word of God and blaspheme His name.'

I suppose that to hear 'christians' blaspheme your heavenly Father and His Name does not make you uncomfortable. To hear that God will condemn the majority of humankind to endless and indescribable torment and suffering should make you cringe and wiggle in your seat. They are assaulting the character of God and, in response, you shout a 'Praise the Lord' ? Hmmm!

It is to the degree that you reject these blasphemies that you will be ready to 'come out of her my people'.

I continued to go sporadically. But I realized that I could not continue to hear their lies and blasphemies. I had enough! They made me fume and wanted to rebut them, but I knew it would be useless. Honestly, they made me angry. But then I was reminded of their blindness.

May the Lord God continue to reveal His word to you.

[Extol]

largeli,

 I don't think I'd feel terribly uncomfortable at church (I've actually gone once a year the past three years, when I'm visiting family out of state), but a church making you feel welcome and comfortable....that's the seduction of the harlot. If there were big screen TVs outside the doors showing people burning in fire and screaming in torment, it wouldn't be a very comfortable place, would it? Of course they don't want to show that, but it is what they believe.

 Granted, not all churches are "fire and brimstone," but they still teach eternal separation from God (or at least annihilation.) Actually, when they are not in-your-face hell preachers, it is even more seductive. C.S. Lewis, for example. I am a big fan of C.S. Lewis--not his theology, but his writing. He was an exceedingly learned man, very smart, and when he talks about hell, it can make a lot of sense to the carnal mind. He says (I'm paraphrasing) that God is not torturing anyone and does not send anyone to hell. Rather, hell is reserved for those who forever want their own way and not God's way. The people in hell say to God "MY will be done, not THY will be done" and God says "Okay, have it your way." And guess what? Being in hell does not change their minds! They are saying "MY will be done" for all eternity, thus God is just in keeping them there. Lewis rationalizes this and makes it seem not so bad. By not mentioning the fire and placing all the blame on the carnal man, human reasoning says "Yeah that makes sense!" This is the sweet seduction of the great whore of Babylon. But the bottom line is he despises the word of God, thinks God is a liar and Jesus is a failure.

 All major Christian denominations agree on that point: God is a liar and Jesus is a failure. None would say it in those words, of course, but it is a great blasphemy nonetheless.

[acomplishedartis]

largely, if you would feel so confident about your opinion on the matter, then, I don't think you would have started this thread.

And you have got a lot of good answers... so far. I believe.

[thewatchman]

It is my experience that very few people who go to church go because of the preaching of the word and fewer the number who really understand it. Most people enjoy the social activities, which could be where your family is. Social interaction can definately be beneficial. We can't all be heretical hairy faced hermits living in caves.  Why does that describe me? Hmmmm....
I do miss that part about church. But my personal scriptural convictions have drawn me away, but not everyone is like me.
Maybe have bible studies at home with your family. Sow the seed. It is God who brings the harvest. 

[lareli]

I suppose that to hear 'christians' blaspheme your heavenly Father and His Name does not make you uncomfortable. To hear that God will condemn the majority of humankind to endless and indescribable torment and suffering should make you cringe and wiggle in your seat. They are assaulting the character of God and, in response, you shout a 'Praise the Lord' ? Hmmm!

Truth is Truth and needs no one to defend it. It defends itself. No need to feel offended when someone blasphemes my heavenly father because my heavenly father can defend Himself.

If I felt threatened, offended, or angry towards them then that tells me that I am not so sure about my convictions.

I once had a guy tell me that God is an alien and that when the Hebrews were wandering the desert for 40 years that they were being led by a flying saucer beaming down a pillar of fire, etc. etc. I did not feel offended or threatened by this guys beliefs because, to me, it was all nonsense and totally absurd... I feel the same way about the church doctrine. Because I believe its totally absurd, I can hear it and not feel threatened or offended.

If you get angry when defending your beliefs, or if you feel like you have to defend your beliefs at all.. then you're not very secure in your beliefs.. In my opinion.

[lareli]

largely, if you would feel so confident about your opinion on the matter, then, I don't think you would have started this thread.

And you have got a lot of good answers... so far. I believe.

You'll get no argument from me here Moises.. If I believed %100 that my opinions were facts instead of opinions then I would not bring them up for discussion. I'm very happy with all the different opinions and perspectives that have been shared. My perspective is only 1 out of 7 billion people in the world. I'd be foolish to think that my perspective alone is the 'right' one. I'm here to learn and to gain more perspective..

[lareli]

It is my experience that very few people who go to church go because of the preaching of the word and fewer the number who really understand it. Most people enjoy the social activities, which could be where your family is. Social interaction can definately be beneficial. We can't all be heretical hairy faced hermits living in caves.  Why does that describe me? Hmmmm....
I do miss that part about church. But my personal scriptural convictions have drawn me away, but not everyone is like me.
Maybe have bible studies at home with your family. Sow the seed. It is God who brings the harvest. 

You're exactly right on this... its not that they want to get spiritually fed, its the social aspect. My wife knows that I think its a total pagan religion that contradicts clear scripture. She believes and trusts me but she likes having friends for her and the kids.. our church friends never talk about theology or anything and like you said, I don't think they go there for that either, or even understand it..

[theophilus]

I suppose that to hear 'christians' blaspheme your heavenly Father and His Name does not make you uncomfortable. To hear that God will condemn the majority of humankind to endless and indescribable torment and suffering should make you cringe and wiggle in your seat. They are assaulting the character of God and, in response, you shout a 'Praise the Lord' ? Hmmm!

Truth is Truth and needs no one to defend it. It defends itself. No need to feel offended when someone blasphemes my heavenly father because my heavenly father can defend Himself.

If I felt threatened, offended, or angry towards them then that tells me that I am not so sure about my convictions.

I once had a guy tell me that God is an alien and that when the Hebrews were wandering the desert for 40 years that they were being led by a flying saucer beaming down a pillar of fire, etc. etc. I did not feel offended or threatened by this guys beliefs because, to me, it was all nonsense and totally absurd... I feel the same way about the church doctrine. Because I believe its totally absurd, I can hear it and not feel threatened or offended.

If you get angry when defending your beliefs, or if you feel like you have to defend your beliefs at all.. then you're not very secure in your beliefs.. In my opinion.

Given enough time, I could argue the phrase "Truth is Truth and needs no one to defend it. It defends itself." is a vacuous one.

It is your existential experience that feeling offended when the character of your Heavenly Father is assaulted means that you are not secure in your convictions. Not mine. Otherwise, I could be persuaded to embrace the heretical teaching of hell again. At the time that I felt this way, I was still trying to convince myself that I could continue attending church to participate in group worship. In my case, the social aspect was secondary. To you the social aspect might be primary.

During some of my visits, the pastor would coincidentally preach on hell. He would even talk to me after the service about continuing to congregate, about stopping to question God and the bible, etc., etc. I, for one, could not continue doing this.

Mind you, I didn't try to 'defend the truth'. I didn't argue with the pastor or anybody in the church. I had already learned it was a fruitless endeavor.

Presently, I could attend any church service. It wouldn't bother me like it did in the past. But it wouldn't bless me spiritually either. This is MY experience. If YOU feel blessed attending, participating, taking part and communing in a local congregation, I can understand why you would continue to go. May God bless you on your journey.

[Riddles]

It is my experience that very few people who go to church go because of the preaching of the word and fewer the number who really understand it. Most people enjoy the social activities, which could be where your family is. Social interaction can definately be beneficial. We can't all be heretical hairy faced hermits living in caves.  Why does that describe me? Hmmmm....
I do miss that part about church. But my personal scriptural convictions have drawn me away, but not everyone is like me.
Maybe have bible studies at home with your family. Sow the seed. It is God who brings the harvest. 

Yep, it's a social club. 

[Riddles]

What is it about the great false church that makes it the false church.. Is it the hell doctrine and free will doctrine? The church that I grew up in was never big on the fire and brimstone preaching.. Actually I went to a bible study there once where the guy was teaching that hell wasn't real..

Also, why does God answer their prayers if they are praying to a false god?

They're not praying to a false god though.  Remember, Jesus didn't give doctrinal pop quizzes to people before he healed them - he just healed them.  It's interesting that only some people sought him out again to thank him. 

[Riddles]

What is it about the great false church that makes it the false church.. Is it the hell doctrine and free will doctrine? The church that I grew up in was never big on the fire and brimstone preaching.. Actually I went to a bible study there once where the guy was teaching that hell wasn't real..

Also, why does God answer their prayers if they are praying to a false god?

Largeli - another thing.  The people who stay in the churches are not, generally, the "wicked', they are just fooled - foolish.  They are the foolish virgins that Jesus spoke of; praying to and professing God, but not following Him (John 10:27).  They sill get saved, but not the first go 'round; the wedding feast is for the wise, the elect.  It's not possible to fool the elect, because they're following God and have been given truth.  So the earnest churchgoers are not "the wicked", just fooled as long as they remain in the church.  Remember that Jesus was kind and patient to his disciples who were also fooled, yet angry with those that profiteered off of fooling His sheep. 

I for once am convinced that the identity of the five foolish virgins = churchgoers with terrible manmade doctrines about the impotence of God.  Why? because there are TEN virgins, not eight or six.  The ten symbolizes the scattered ten tribes that are all over the world, being drawn to God.  Only some of those called will become wise, but all of the ten are spiritual Israel.  If churchgoers were really wicked, they would not be described as "virgins" - they are virgins because they DO have the right God and generally, in my opinion, their heart is mostly in the right place, which is why in the parable our longsuffering God will let them join "the party" next time - by way of the elect (the wise virgins) who tell them "go instead to them that buy and sell!" - that is, go back to church.  Recall that the bible says that the elect will be responsible for bringing the correct gospel to the nations. 

The reason why the "groom" in the wise and foolish virgin parable doesn't know the five virgins is because they held blasphemous doctrines about the character of God, not because God sends us down the "bad egg" chute if we lack perfect academic understanding of scripture.  But, God still can choose to answer the prayers of anyone, perhaps as a way to drawn them to Him, or just because He's generous. Long before I knew anything about repenting or living right, God answered many of my prayers. 

Those fooled (foolish) have a form of Godliness by deny the power thereof (2 Tim 3:5).  They have the correct God, but deny His omnipotence.  They can benefit from His answered prayers and blessings, but they don't get to know Him in this life. 

[Joel]

I really have a problem calling the Roman Catholic Church, and her many protestant daughters CHURCH.
Some scriptures that came to mind while reading this thread;
Mark 9:38-40 And John answered him saying, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name, and he followed not us: and we forbad him, because he followeth not us. But Jesus said, Forbid him not: for there is no man which shall do a miracle in my name, that can lightly speak evil of me. For he that is not against us in on our part.
1st Corinthians 12:3
Werefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.

Each of us today has to at some point in time hear and act on the words commanded in Revelations 18:4-And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, MY PEOPLE, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.
A Church denomination has a portion of Truth like currency has various denominations. 1$, 5$, 10$, 20$, and so on.

Nobody comes out until God opens their eyes, or ears as in Rev. 18:4. "My People" hear the loud voice from higher up. (heaven)

Joel

[Riddles]

Joel, if you're referring to my post - I don't consider the RCC, EOC and the daughter churches "the church".