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Guilty of All
Farlsborough:
Last week I listened to one of Ray's videos, "guilty of all". It was long awaited by me as I presume this is the follow-on from "repentance" that he talks about it.
However, I feel like I missed something :-[ It felt like quite a lot of style but little substance, and being Ray, that makes me think I didn't get it.
Essentially he pointed out that it says we are guilty of all; not that we DID commit all sins, but are guilty. But why? I don't think that was explained. I can read that statement - you are guilty of all - but I struggle to relate it to my life or to reality, i.e. what way am I guilty. Am I guilty just because I'm a human? Given Ray's objection to eternal damnation on (one of the many) grounds that it is simply unfair, unjust, illogical etc, I can't believe that he'd stop at "you are guilty of all, because it says so." I was hoping to come to an understanding of why it is right that I be guilty of all sins.
I was listening after a nightshift so perhaps my brain wasn't working properly; I'll listen again, but in the meantime, any thoughts?
lilitalienboi16:
--- Quote from: Farlsborough on June 26, 2014, 02:35:34 PM ---Last week I listened to one of Ray's videos, "guilty of all". It was long awaited by me as I presume this is the follow-on from "repentance" that he talks about it.
However, I feel like I missed something :-[ It felt like quite a lot of style but little substance, and being Ray, that makes me think I didn't get it.
Essentially he pointed out that it says we are guilty of all; not that we DID commit all sins, but are guilty. But why? I don't think that was explained. I can read that statement - you are guilty of all - but I struggle to relate it to my life or to reality, i.e. what way am I guilty. Am I guilty just because I'm a human? Given Ray's objection to eternal damnation on (one of the many) grounds that it is simply unfair, unjust, illogical etc, I can't believe that he'd stop at "you are guilty of all, because it says so." I was hoping to come to an understanding of why it is right that I be guilty of all sins.
I was listening after a nightshift so perhaps my brain wasn't working properly; I'll listen again, but in the meantime, any thoughts?
--- End quote ---
You are guilty of all because the only reason you havn't murdered a child or raped a little girl is due to God. There is no good in the flesh. Every perfect gift and good thing comes from the Father of lights above.
This also comes back to free will.
Had you been born into Hitler's world, had you been born to the same parents he was born to, and lived the life he did, you would have been hitler 2.0. There is nothing in you inherently that makes you better than hitler or saul. The only thing that seperates you from them is plan God has layed out for your life. You are powerless to live a different life than the one layed out before you as God has already declared the end from the beginning.
Yes, you are guilty because you are human. You are born carnal. The carnal mind is deep seated hatred towards God and cannot be subject to His laws. You are born flesh and blood and flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of heaven.
You are guilty of all but you have not committed again. It makes perfect sense.
Ray doesn't object to eternal damnation because its unfair, unjust and illogical (though it is), he objects to it because it is NOT SCRIPTURAL. Do you understand that? To ascribe to God the inner workings of the dark and wicked heart of evil men is blasphemy of the highest degree. Woe to those who call good evil. Woe indeed, it is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of The Living God.
Your inability to understand why you are guilty of all may stem from the fact that you do not understand the sovereignty of God and the condition of all creation. Perhaps you still think you are who you are because of some decision you made and not because of the power of God?
For the creature was subject to vanity (Moral futility) not by choice but by reason of HIM. Who hath subject the same in Hope. For the creation will be liberated from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children God.
In Christ,
Alex
Riddles:
--- Quote from: Farlsborough on June 26, 2014, 02:35:34 PM ---Last week I listened to one of Ray's videos, "guilty of all". It was long awaited by me as I presume this is the follow-on from "repentance" that he talks about it.
However, I feel like I missed something :-[ It felt like quite a lot of style but little substance, and being Ray, that makes me think I didn't get it.
Essentially he pointed out that it says we are guilty of all; not that we DID commit all sins, but are guilty. But why? I don't think that was explained. I can read that statement - you are guilty of all - but I struggle to relate it to my life or to reality, i.e. what way am I guilty. Am I guilty just because I'm a human? Given Ray's objection to eternal damnation on (one of the many) grounds that it is simply unfair, unjust, illogical etc, I can't believe that he'd stop at "you are guilty of all, because it says so." I was hoping to come to an understanding of why it is right that I be guilty of all sins.
I was listening after a nightshift so perhaps my brain wasn't working properly; I'll listen again, but in the meantime, any thoughts?
--- End quote ---
Hi Farlsborough.
Here is how I see it: Without God and His laws, our measure stick of righteousness is other people, which is very relative. The Hebrews knew that the Babylonians sacrificed their children in the fire to Moloch for prosperity and to cleanse their sins, and the Hebrews said in their hearts "I'm not like those people. We're better than those people." But they weren't, because in a sick way, they BENEFITTED from the torture and killing of these children, too. That is, they could USE the evil act as a way to be righteous in their own eyes and not further question their status with God. So in a way, the killing of these children had many purposes! I mean, you get a pat on the back for NOT killing kids right?
Let me use a more modern example. I was reading a book written by an expert on abuse. Over a period of decades, the author met with men who had been court ordered to get counseling for abusing their wives in various ways. The author, a man, said that without fail, each and every abuser insisted that he was justified in his behavior because he could think of someone WORSE that he had not yet done to his wife. So, the guy who only threatened and emotionally terrorized his wife said "what's the big deal? It's not like I ever hit her" while the guy who beat his wife said "what's the big deal? I didn't hit her THAT hard. She's exaggerating" and so on. That's because the most depraved act they could dream up was the "line" in their minds that they would not cross, and this made them good guys in their own minds. They were right in their own minds.
So you don't beat people or torture and kill kids. How are (or were) you and I guilty of all? In the world's power structure which is corrupt because man is corrupt, many people have to suffer and toil in ignorance for the benefit of the few. You and I benefit from slave labor, sex trafficking, organized street drug trade, racism, toxic chemical dumping and more.
Other peoples' unrighteous acts 'justify' us in this world, until after God knocks on our heart, we answer the door and He sups with us, and writes His laws on our hearts.
Typos edited
Extol:
It might help to follow along with the transcript; maybe print it out so you can highlight key points and make notes:
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,3709.0.html
Farlsborough:
Thanks guys, and thanks for the link to the transcript; I'll definitely go over it again. But I see what you mean: my sinful state is no better than anyone elses (including Saddam, Stalin etc. - "the big ones" everyone loves to refer to!) apart from God's mercy/plan.
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