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In the day you eat of it, you will certainly die
Kat:
Gen 2:17 but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die."
Okay the literal translations have "day" so I will go with that.
Riddles, it's a parable (sort of like a riddle :) ), Adam represents mankind and what they did/do is "eat of it" means experiencing this life/day. So I think the word "day" there represents our lifetime, whether it last only 1 day or 1000 years or close to it for those few at the beginning of Adam line of descendants.
Yes I can see how "day" in that verse can apply to the Scripture "with the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day" because a person's lifetime/day is in that time period. And everybody partakes of "the tree of the fruit of good and evil" in their lifetime, even if they live but a day. God's gives every person the breath of life in the day/days of their life, however long it is.
Also we know that the whole next age is considered "the day of the Lord."
Obadiah 1:15 "For the day of the LORD upon all the nations is near; As you have done, it shall be done to you; Your reprisal shall return upon your own head.
mercy, peace and love
Kat
dave:
--- Quote from: Extol on June 27, 2014, 06:31:42 AM ---The verse should be translated to die you shall be dying.
--- End quote ---
Yes I agree.
santgem:
--- Quote from: Riddles on June 26, 2014, 11:58:13 PM ---I was reading some e mailed questions that L. Ray answered. I posted it here below. The person asked what God is talking about in Gen 2:17 with "on the day you eat of it you shall surely die." Christian churches teach (that I know about) teach that here Adam died spiritually that literal day, but could not perceive it. But here, "day" means 1,000 years and sure enough Adam died at 930 years. God was talking about physical death.
A thousand years in your sight are like a day that has just gone by Psalm 90:4
With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day 2 Peter 3:8
Hi Ray,
You said that Adam and Eve were carnal minded before they ate the forbidden fruit. Does that mean they were spiritually dead before they ate?
If so, what was God taking about when he said "on the day you eat you will surely die?"
[Ray Replies]
God treated Adam and Eve in the same way that the Law of Moses treated Israel. There were numerous laws given to Israel, and the breaking of some of them involved the penalty of death. Now as long as no one actually committed the act that was illegal, no penalty was enacted. One could look at another man's pretty wife, just as long as he didn't touch her or commit physical adultery with her.
God treated Eve the same way. As long as she kept her lust of the flesh and lust of the eyes and pride of life TO HERSELF, God did not punish her. But once she committed an actual act of law-breaking (in this case disobey the law that God had enacted regarding eating the forbidden fruit), then the PENALTY CAME IN TO PLAY.
Today, under the New Covenant, we are guilty for merely THINKING a sinful thought. Now it is a sin to just "look upon a woman to lust after her" even if one doesn't ACTUALLY commit adultery with her. It is a thing of the SPIRIT, and not just the letter.
God be with you,
Ray
--- End quote ---
Hello Riddles,
Greetings!
Adam did not die literally on that day same as the thief with Christ be in the paradise of that day.
There are plenty of Ray's explanations i just got one.
http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,979.0.html ------
It is not kosher to quote half of a verse when it has a larger context. Jesus did not begin a sentence with: "TODAY you shall be with me in paradise," did He? No, Jesus said: "Verily I say unto thee TODAY shall you be with Me in paradise." But even that is King James translating, and King James is not inerrant. Notice how the great scholar Joseph Bryant Rotherham renders this verse: "Verily I say unto thee this day: With me shalt thou be in Paradise." But as a footnote he suggests that "This day with me shalt...." as a possibility. So what's the solution? God tells us how to solve this Verse and every other verse of Scripture: "That no prophecy of scripture becomes self-solving" (II Pet. 1:20, Rotherham), "That no prophecy of scripture at all is becoming its OWN explanation" (Concordant LNT).
We must go to other Scriptures to explain what is mean by this Scripture.
v
v
I don't care if there are NO commas in Luke 23:43. Commas do not make or break the Scriptures of God. This verse does not contradict hundreds and hundreds of other Scriptures as the Church teaches it does. That day, "today," both Jesus AND the thief, DIED AND THEY WERE DEAD
This is a large subject involving the different resurrections, and the Judgments of God. It will take a sizable paper to cover it properly and I cannot do it now. Hope you understand.
God be with you,
Ray
Riddles:
Simile: a figure of speech involving the comparison of one thing with another thing of a different kind, used to make a description more emphatic or vivid
Notice that the definition does not say that a simile makes a description more clear. No one is being asked to consider “day” as equal to 1,000 years in every instance of scripture. This isn’t some slippery slope. You’re not being asked to consider how many days or epochs it took God to create the world and everything in it.
In The Lake of Fire Part IX, L. Ray wrote that the trees in Lebanon (Isa. 14:4-8) which talk to the King of Babylon are actual people. When you read that, did you e mail him to correct him, showing him scripture about the trees of Gen 2:9 being actual trees and not people, so his interpretation was likely wrong, even though admittedly yes it made sense? If not, why not?
Gen. 2:17 (KJV) But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
Gen 2:17 (ESV) but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die.
Notice it says in (within) the day, and not on the day.
But am I picking only modern English translations to suit my case? Let’s look at an Orthodox Jewish Bible scripture:
Gen. 2:17 (OJB) But of the Etz HaDa’as Tov v’Rah, thou shalt not eat of it; for in the yom [24 hour day] that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
2 Peter 3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
II Kefa 3:8 Chaverim, let not this one thing escape your notice, that "A thousand years in the eyes of Hashem is like one day"
Psalm 90:4 For a thousand years in your sight are just like yesterday [ one day] when it is past, like a watch in the night.
Tehillim 90:4 (OJB) For an elef shanim in Thy sight are but as yom etmol [yesterday] when it is past, and as an ashmurah [watch, division of time] in the lailah.
Gen. 5:5 Adam lived a total of 930 years, and then he died.
Adam did die in (within) that day, that 1,000 year period that he lived, just as God pronounced.
The unquestioned belief in our own self will is what causes us not to even question Gen. 2:17, even though when pressed we, learned preachers included, either don't care to look into the meaning of “day” or dismiss its importance totally. It’s all just tedious right? No.
Maybe you personally thought much about whether or not Adam died spiritually, or never took a stance on whether or not Adam was created perfect, and can’t see what the fuss is about and so you think this doesn't apply to you, or to L. Ray's writings. It does. The fact that Adam died physically just as God said he would (but not as just about everyone assumes, apparently) changes everything. The near ubiquitous false doctrine of man's free will and immortality from birth strips God of his omnipotence and makes Him capricious. But God did not create Adam intending him to be immortal at all, then somehow His laws failed and the experiment ran amok because of our puny wills. How can God create something that is a failure? How can man’s will override God’s (Isa. 10:15)? When we have complete faith that our flesh is unreliable and complete faith that God IS, we finally have rest, and can truly rejoice.
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