Wrath vs. Chastening

[jojoross]

Hi Everybody,

Ok.  This has been on my mind for the past couple of days:

God's wrath is for those who are still not chosen (the elect) correct?  We all experience God's wrath until we have Christ in us and THEN we are CHASTENED by God to become chosen, elect correct?

So do the people who are thrown in the Lake of Fire experience God's Wrath or Chastening?  Thanks for your time.

Gods Peace,
Jordan

[Kat]

Hi Jordan,

Here is an excerpt from an article that helps sort out the difference in judgment now and what is to come later in the lake of fire, because there is a big difference.

http://bible-truths.com/rapture.htm -------

At this point in our discussion, it will be helpful to define some words that are often interchanged as if they are virtually one and the same. It is important that we understand the meanings of important words that are wrongly applied by those who teach the rapture:

1. Affliction: Keyword Concordance, anguish, persecution, tribulation, trouble, ill treatment, suffering. Webster's: affliction, any cause of pain or suffering.
AND
2.Tribulation: Keyword Concordance, affliction Webster's: tribulation, great misery or distress

VERSUS
3.Wrath: Keyword Concordance, fury, indignation, vexation Webster's: wrath, intense anger, rage, fury, vengeance
AND
4.Indignation: Keyword Concd., anger, vengeance, wrath Webster's: Adj.-- indignation, expressing anger especially unjust or mean actions. Noun-- righteous anger.

Although there is somewhat of an overlap in defining these words, we can still get a clear picture as to how these words are used in the Scriptures. Notice that "affliction" and "tribulation" are nearly synonymous. Notice also, that "wrath" and "indignation" are nearly synonymous. "Affliction" can be defined as "tribulation," and "tribulation" can be defined as "affliction." Likewise, "wrath" can be defined as "indignation," and "indignation" can be defined as "wrath." But, the first two words, "affliction and tribulation" are not synonymous with the second two words, "wrath and indignation." There is a giant difference in their usage, and especially when used in a prophetic setting. I hope I haven't lost anyone. Reread this a few times and you'll get it.
v
"Through many afflictions must we be entering into the kingdom of God" (Acts 14:22).
v
Paul told the Thessalonians that the trials that they were going through was not part of the day of Lord, nor was it part of God's indignation. They would not suffer a present indignation, or a future indignation--God did not appoint them to indignation. God did, however, appoint [locate] them to the trials, sufferings, and afflictions that they were going through (I Thes. 3:3). In Paul's second letter to them, they were still going through the same suffering and afflictions, which were in part,

"... to deem you worthy of the kingdom of God ..." (II Thes. 1:4-5).

Furthermore, we, today, have no promise that God will remove all of our trials, sufferings, and afflictions, even though I believe we can claim this same promise as did the Thessalonians, that, "God did not appoint us to indignation" (I Thes. 5:9). God gives us trials to help deem us worthy of the kingdom of God--this is a glorious thing! But never does God pour out His indignation for any reason upon believers. Remember our earlier definitions: do not confuse "trials and afflictions" with "wrath and indignation."
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Now God brings the chosen to "judge ourselves" and this seems to be a rather private and personal thing according to each individual at this time to prepare and teach lessens (through trials and tribulation) to those God is preparing to rule with Him in the next age.

1Co 11:31  For if we would judge ourselves, we would not be judged.
v. 32  But when we are judged, we are chastened by the Lord, that we may not be condemned with the world.

In this world the Elect are bombarded on every side by corruption and evil. I think God carefully gives us just the right chastening needed to develop/teach each one with particular strengths. This is done lovingly (not with wrath) preparing/training for the monumental task ahead. 

Right now the wicked are running amuck. It seems they are just getting away with every kind of sin, but there is coming a day/time of reckoning, when all shall have to give account. The Lake of fire is God's judgments coming to the whole world, but it will be done in equity, as God is a just God.

Rom 2:5  But in accordance with your hardness and your impenitent heart you are treasuring up for yourself wrath in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God,
v. 6  who "will render to each one according to his deeds":

God's wrath sounds like a fearful thing, rightfully so, because when Christ rules there will be nowhere for the wicked to hide. But it's His adversaries/enemies that have maligned His truth, and willfully comment every evil that have something to fear.

Rom 1:18  For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness,

Nah 1:2  God is jealous, and the LORD avenges;
       The LORD avenges and is furious.
       The LORD will take vengeance on His adversaries,
       And He reserves wrath for His enemies;
v. 3  The LORD is slow to anger and great in power,
       And will not at all acquit the wicked.

All people will be raised and give account... what does that mean?

Luke 12:47  And that servant who knew his master's will, and did not prepare himself or do according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.

How this will literally play out is not explained, though I do not believe this is speaking about a literal beating, but it does seem that there is going to be some kind of punishment. Whatever it is He will deal with every individual according to His perfect justice, exactly as is needed, many/much or few/less.

Luke 12:48  But he who did not know, yet committed things deserving of stripes, shall be beaten with few. For everyone to whom much is given, from him much will be required; and to whom much has been committed, of him they will ask the more.   

When Christ rules this world will be a very different place than it is now, people will not be getting away with any kind of wickedness, there will be no secrets, no hiding from this coming judgment. But there will be children and babies resurrected as well, and there are those that do not live as reprobates and Christ certainly understands their needs and will give them a place of peace and comforter to live. But for those that reveled in their wickedness He will be fierce and will not cut them lack.

Rev 19:15  Now out of His mouth goes a sharp sword, that with it He should strike the nations. And He Himself will rule them with a rod of iron. He Himself treads the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

When a person's heart is laid bare and their true thoughts and feelings are exposed, they cannot lie their way out of this one. All will be under some degree of condemnation, but correction will be on a individual bases, God justice is perfect.

Rom 2:6  For he will render to every man according to his works:
v. 8  but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness--indignation and wrath,
v. 9  tribulation and anguish, on every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek;

Isa 26:9  With my soul I have desired You in the night,
       Yes, by my spirit within me I will seek You early;
       For when Your judgments are in the earth,
       The inhabitants of the world will learn righteousness.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

[lilitalienboi16]

Beautiful! An amen to what ray said!

[jojoross]

Thanks Kat!  So the Lake of Fire is for the unchosen and they will experience the wrath of God correct? 

[Dave in Tenn]

"When Christ rules this world will be a very different place than it is now, people will not be getting away with any kind of wickedness, there will be no secrets, no hiding from this coming judgment. But there will be children and babies resurrected as well, and there are those that do not live as reprobates and Christ certainly understands their needs and will give them a place of peace and comforter to live. But for those that reveled in their wickedness He will be fierce and will not cut them lack."

and

"How this will literally play out is not explained, though I do not believe this is speaking about a literal beating, but it does seem that there is going to be some kind of punishment. Whatever it is He will deal with every individual according to His perfect justice, exactly as is needed, many/much or few/less."

Is there something different about 'reprobate minds' 'reveling in their wickedness' and just plain folks?  I think so.

"For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness..."  That ain't most folks, though all need to be judged, corrected, chastened and have the "bad" purged away and the "good" refined.  The Refining Fire which is our God does both in the exact measure that is needed. 

[Kat]

Hi jojoross,

The chosen few will be raised in the first/former resurrection when Christ appears.

Col 3:4  When Christ who is our life appears, then you also will appear with Him in glory.

Rev 20:6  Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.

So there is a first resurrection to life for the just, where they will unite with Christ, but that is only the first phase. Then comes the great white throne judgment for the rest of the dead, "anyone not found written in the Book of Life," which is the second death. It will be on earth in the lake of fire or fiery judgment, "for our God is a consuming fire" (Heb 12:29 ). This lake is composed of Christ and the raised elect that will rule/judge the nations.

John 5:28  Marvel not at this: for the hour cometh, in which all that are in the tombs shall hear His voice,
v. 29  and shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of judgment. (ASV)

Acts 24:15  I have hope in God, which they themselves also accept, that there will be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and the unjust.

Rev 20:11  Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them.
v. 12  And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books.
v. 13  The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works.
v. 14  Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
v. 15  And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

[jojoross]

The chosen with Christ are the Lake of Fire!  God's judgments are just!  Thanks Kat and Dave!

Gods Peace,
Jordan

[dave]

Kat!