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Author Topic: Spiritual death?  (Read 3712 times)

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Mike Gagne

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Spiritual death?
« on: July 09, 2014, 12:30:28 AM »

Hi everyone, I am a bit confused here! In Lrays teachings twelve given truths to understand his word he says.......
[A] "And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the Last Adam [Jesus Christ] was made a quickening spirit. Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is NATURAL; and afterward that which is SPIRITUAL" (I Cor. 15:45-46).

"It is sown [first] a NATURAL BODY [a physical body which dies]; it is raised [afterward] a SPIRITUAL BODY [which is made immortal and never dies]…" (I Cor. 15:44).

[C] "Who shall change our [first] VILE BODY, that it may be fashioned like unto His [afterward] GLORIOUS BODY…" (Phil. 3:21).

[D] "If I have told you EARTHLY things [first], and you believe not, how shall you believe, if I tell you of HEAVENLY [spiritual] things [afterward]?" (John 3:12).

The sequence of God’s plan of salvation for mankind is most important—First is the physical and then comes the spiritual......It was the natural body of Adam that became a living soul after God breathed into him. And that living soul was subject to death (Gen. 2:17 and Ezek. 18:4 & 20). Even this simple, straight-forward truth of Scripture is universally denied.      Then in Lrays lake of fire part 4 he says talking about the meaning of the prodigal son......This man SINNED, he was LOST, and he SPIRITUALLY DIED! Do we ALL spiritually DIE? "AND AS IT IS APPOINTED UNTO MEN ONCE TO DIE..." But isn’t this speaking of the PHYSICAL death of our bodies? No it is not. The second part of the verse gives us the answer as to which death this is,

"And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but AFTER this the JUDGMENT" (Heb. 9:27).

Notice that "judgment" comes after this death, and not before. We already learned that JUDGMENT is upon the house of God NOW! Each individual Christian in every generation is judged NOW, in THIS life, BEFORE he physically dies! And so the "death" that all men must partake of before judgment is SPIRITUAL DEATH. Notice:

"And I saw THE DEAD, small and great, STAND before God" (Rev. 20:12).

How pray tell can the physically dead, stand, if they are dead?  I am not sure how to take this? If we are not spiritual then how can we spiritually die?  I was good with his truth first the physical, then the spiritual, but once I read this in part 4 I am not sure how it fits together?  I read a few times and I will keep reading until God opens my eyes and maybe some of you might have what God needs to get to me! Thank you.  :)
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Kat

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Re: Spiritual death?
« Reply #1 on: July 09, 2014, 01:19:51 AM »


Hi Mike,

Here is where these things are explained in the article 16E 'Hades and the Second Death.'

http://bible-truths.com/lake16-D5.htm ---------------

"And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God: and the books were opened, and another book was opened which is the books of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their WORKS" (Rev. 20:12).

"And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death" (Rev. 20:13-14).

When the "dead... stand," we are being presented with a resurrection from the dead. For this is exactly what resurrection means (anastasis in Greek means, "to stand up again"--See Strong's #386 translated 'resurrection'). It is in resurrection that "the dead... stand" before God. And yes, since we know Revelation is a book of spiritual symbols, we would be correct in stating that it is "the SPIRITUALLY dead" who are standing before God. Aspects of this Judgment:

[1] "the dead, small and great stand [resurrected] before God"
 
[2] they are judged according to the books, according to their works
 
[3] "the sea [the sea of wicked humanity] give up its [spiritually] dead"
 
[4] this includes "every man" [Gk: 'each one or 'every one' or 'every person']

[5] "death [the cause] and hell [the realm] are cast into the lake of fire"
 
[6] and those "not found in the Book of Life were cast into the Lake of Fire"
 
[7] this "Lake of Fire is the Second Death"
 
The Christian orthodox teaching on the "Last Judgment" is a pagan fabrication which has been deceiving Christians by the billions for two thousands years. We will now look closer at just what this lake of fire/second death is all about.

As we have said many times, there is Judgment for both the chosen Elect now and the unbelieving wicked in the resurrection to Judgment:

"For if we would judge ourselves [now, in this life], we should not be judged [with the world later]. But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned  [judged] with the world [at the resurrection to Judgment]" (I Cor. 11:31-32).

"For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God? And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?" (I Pet. 4:17-18).

Well we see where they appear in Paul's statement that they will be "...condemned  [judged]  with the world."

And this is at the Great White Throne Judgment in the resurrection to Judgment, in the lake of fire/second death.
v
v
WHEN DO GOD'S ELECT DIE ONCE BEFORE THEIR SECOND DEATH?
 
But how do the Elect "die once but after this Judgment?" It rather seems that they would receive Judgment [in this life], and then after this [judgment] they would once die. No, the sequence is the same for the Elect as it is for the wicked: "And it is appointed unto men [including the Elect] once to die, but after this [after this necessary 'once to die' declaration, then follows...], Judgment" (Heb. 9:27). And what did we learn Judgment is? Why, THE SECOND DEATH. There can only be a "second" death if it is first preceded by another death.

Now for the second part of the Heb. 9:27 riddle: When and how do God's Elect die "ONCE" before their SECOND death Judgment? Some of you should already be ahead of me with all the hints I have given you, but for the rest who haven't figured it out yet, you will maybe feel a little embarrassed when you see the answer, so here it is:

"Know ye not [no, of course the majority of Christendom 'knows not,' and that is why the physical aspects of baptism is so important to them...] ...know you not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into His death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into DEATH" (Rom. 6:3-4).

There is the answer to how God's Elect must "once die" before their "Second death Judgment."
 
The carnal world dies when they breathe their last and go down into the grave. God's Elect die when they are "baptized into death.". After resurrection from the dead, the world will enter into Judgment. And what about us--God's Elect? When do we enter into Judgment? Same way, when we are resurrected from the dead through baptism.
 
"Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection"  (Rom. 6:4).

But we are not literally resurrected to immortality as Jesus was, when we are raised from the dead after being baptized into JESUS, are we? No, not literally, that is why Paul says we are to, "reckon you also yourselves to be dead."
 
"Likewise r-e-c-k-o-n you also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord" (Rom. 6:11).

The Greek word for "reckon" means "to estimate, conclude, impute, reason, reckon, suppose, think." It is not necessary to "reckon" something that is literally a present reality. In the future we will literally be free from all sin and literally have immortality in resurrection, but for now we can just "reckon" it.

This death is not a literal, physical death, but it is a REAL death, and it is most important:

"Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him" (Rom. 6:08).

Notice also that in addition to being baptized into Christ's death, we are also "buried." True, this is figurative language, but it is true language. We truly are not only crucified with Christ, and die with Christ, but we are also buried with Him. THIS IS THE FIRST DEATH OF THE ELECT BEFORE THEIR SECOND DEATH IN JUDGMENT BY FIRE.

How sad it is that billions of people are eager to be baptized in water, but do not know what it means to be "baptized into Jesus Christ." If people want to be baptized in water, fine, but if they are not at the same time "baptized into Jesus Christ," which means "baptized into death," then they only go down dry and come up wet--little else changes in their lives.

Remember that the Lake of fire IS death, but death only to those things which are to be no longer. Are there to be people after the Judgment? Yes. Well then people will not be literally killed or annihilated in this judgment by fire. How would God ever be "ALL in all" (I Cor. 15:28)?
v
CONCLUSION

In today's world of Christendom, it is hardly admitted that the life of a Believer is to be one of tribulations and trials, pain and suffering, sorrow and death. It is rather taught that Believers are to be healthy, wealthy, worldly, and wise. After all, who wants to live a life of "dying?" If the Christian life of overcoming is such a great life, why not live it FOREVER? No, our goal is to GET OUT OF THIS LIFE.

Yes, there is joy in knowing that our suffering and trials, and FIRE, is producing something of eternal value, but the process is not the goal.
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Hope that helps.

mercy, peace and love
Kat
« Last Edit: July 09, 2014, 01:36:41 AM by Kat »
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Mike Gagne

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Re: Spiritual death?
« Reply #2 on: July 09, 2014, 01:43:42 AM »

Thanks Kat! I see it , it's late but I will reread this and the link a few times tomorrow, your awesome Kat thank you  :)
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