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[robby.morales]

I'll be brief:

I have a family. We are not currently attending church. I worry about what doctrines my wife and children will be exposed to should we settle on a local fellowship. Any suggestions on the subject of attending church?

Thanks in advance.

[indianabob]

Hi Robbie,

Brief answer:
You do not need to attend any organized religious fellowship in order to please God.

Your children would probably learn some interesting facts in "Sunday school" if they did attend, but they would also be exposed to myths and traditions that would leave them with more unanswered questions than valid biblical answers.

I realize that you are facing a serious challenge to your sincere desire to provide Bible teaching for your children and I hope that you will find the help you desire from others here on the forum.
Personally, I would suggest that you consider preparing yourself to "home teach" the true facts about God and Jesus in a basic and simple manner.

If your wife is willing to help with this approach once it is established, it would have a good chance of success. Please keep in mind though that you are the responsible parent and need to take the lead with your wife's approval. Don't expect her to do the research or the preparation for the lessons, that is your job until perhaps she asks to participate, so go slow and pray a lot.
The important thing is to exercise great patience and taking the time to prepare simple lessons. Work toward gaining the trust of your family in simple ways rather than any deep or difficult topics. Teach about God's great love...

You can even mix basic science lessons with your Bible readings and I'm sure that the children will enjoy your use of the computer and maps and pictures of other lands for their lessons if you are able to find appropriate material for them.

It won't be easy, but you will learn great lessons along the way and the family will draw closer together as you worship in your home. Remember to keep it simple and friendly and fun. God's son Jesus is a fun fellow and very patient with the "little children' including all of us on the forum.

Love and hugs, Indiana Bob

[rick]

Hi Robby,

Church = synagogue of Satan, there is nothing there that leads to life, please, have your family read what is on this site. B.T. = life.

Seriously, I’m telling you the truth. Why subject your family to false doctrine ? It’s all the church has to offer.   

[Rhys 🕊]

This answer from Ray helps me:

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,12164.msg105772.html#msg105772

Hi Mr Smith.

I am Very grateful once again to write you this little note and commend. Since I wrote to you in 2009, to thank you about tithing which I din’t agree with its teaching from the start. Now I am a free man with no guilt in heart. Now I know you don’t attend any church. But may be you know of any church that is teaching the same message, that you are teaching, I have tried  for many years to find the church that Jesus built according to MT 16verse18. but to no avail each and every organizations are not teaching the whole truth of God.

I am very confused as I do have the family, that is looking up to me for spiritual guidance. Especially my children as the bible say we must teach them while they are still young, now I do know where to start.

Another thing I would like to thank you. Because since I started reading your writings, it is difficult to read other Christians books iam also looking up to you for spiritual guidance, always I read about your current condition. And I pray to God to keep you until you finish this good work you have started.

Sir you will bare with me, I am an African man in south Africa, not educated so English is not my language but I hope the holy spirit will help to explain what I am trying to say

Thanks


Dear Abel:  I understand you problem with finding the Church that Jesus built.
It still exists, but not in the form and practice of what it was when Jesus started it.

But it was prophesied that it would go into apostasy (a falling away from the true
faith once delivered).  So from that "falling away" Church, God has been calling
OUT a people to restore and live by the original teachings of its founder--Jesus.

So don't be discouraged.  You may not find what you would think is the "True"
Church, but you have found the "TRUTH" of that original Church.  And remember,
our fellowship with the Called Out Elect is "IN SPIRIT."  And our fellowship and
worship of God is also "IN SPIRIT AND IN TRUTH" (John 4:21-24).  No thing or
no body can ever prevent you from worshiping God in "spirit and in truth"!

God be with you,

Ray


Rhys

[lareli]

Seriously, I’m telling you the truth. Why subject your family to false doctrine ? It’s all the church has to offer.   

Jesus is the Son of God. Jesus died for our sins.

Is this false doctrine?

[John from Kentucky]

Seriously, I’m telling you the truth. Why subject your family to false doctrine ? It’s all the church has to offer.   

Jesus is the Son of God. Jesus died for our sins.

Is this false doctrine?

As Ray brought out, the false church does not believe that Jesus died.  They believe that His immortal soul lived on and He was alive in spirit.  They also believe He went to preach to the fallen angels in hell after His crucifixion.  All lies.

Also in the false trinity doctrine the false church teaches He is one of three coequal gods and that all three are separate persons.  All lies.

The false church teaches all lies.  That is why Jesus tells us, "Come out of her My people."

[Extol]

Seriously, I’m telling you the truth. Why subject your family to false doctrine ? It’s all the church has to offer.   

Jesus is the Son of God. Jesus died for our sins.

Is this false doctrine?

Not only do they not believe Jesus died, as JFK pointed out, but they also don't believe He died (or was crucified and went to hell) for our sins. Okay, maybe our sins, but they don't believe He also paid for the sins of the whole world, as 1 John 2:2 and 1 John 4:14 plainly state.

The Church will also say "God is love" and "God is sovereign"---but they deny these two truths more vehemently than any other.

[robby.morales]

Indiana bob and Rhys:

Gentlemen i want to thank you both for your replies. I am encouraged and will  seek to lead my family. Thanks again.

Respectfully, Robby

[rick]

Hi Largeli.

If you want to poison a dog you know , you cannot give it pure poison because he will sniff it out and not eat but if you mix it in with good food he will eat it.

The church does it to people this way. Some truth but mostly lies. I notice you seem to have a disdain for anyone who speaks against the church.

If you wish to defend an institution that hurts people its your prerogative to but I don’t share your sediments. If you believed in the things that Ray taught I’m sure you would change your position as well.

If you believe that Christendom is the way to go that is between God and you not you and me but if your trying to sell me how truthful an righteous the church is I choose to believe Ray over you.

God bless you Largeli, have a wonderful day.   

[santgem]

Seriously, I’m telling you the truth. Why subject your family to false doctrine ? It’s all the church has to offer.   

Jesus is the Son of God. Jesus died for our sins.

Is this false doctrine?

Not only do they not believe Jesus died, as JFK pointed out, but they also don't believe He died (or was crucified and went to hell) for our sins. Okay, maybe our sins, but they don't believe He also paid for the sins of the whole world, as 1 John 2:2 and 1 John 4:14 plainly state.

The Church will also say "God is love" and "God is sovereign"---but they deny these two truths more vehemently than any other.

adding to the bandwagon:

Jesus is a total failure......He cannot save the world. Most of the humanity will be barbecued in hell forever and ever......

[Rhys 🕊]

Seriously, I’m telling you the truth. Why subject your family to false doctrine ? It’s all the church has to offer.   

Jesus is the Son of God. Jesus died for our sins.

Is this false doctrine?

Not only do they not believe Jesus died, as JFK pointed out, but they also don't believe He died (or was crucified and went to hell) for our sins. Okay, maybe our sins, but they don't believe He also paid for the sins of the whole world, as 1 John 2:2 and 1 John 4:14 plainly state.

The Church will also say "God is love" and "God is sovereign"---but they deny these two truths more vehemently than any other.

adding to the bandwagon:

Jesus is a total failure......He cannot save the world. Most of the humanity will be barbecued in hell forever and ever......

They must serve an excellent steak in that place.........hot sauce anyone 

Rhys

[Farlsborough]

I'm going to play devil's advocate, I suspect most will disagree!

I'm in the UK and I do go to our local Anglican church. Why? Certainly not for the in-depth teaching, but for the community aspect. Unless you have several local friends and families who all subcribe to the truths found here, it's going to be a lonely existence and what is more, you're likely to find your opportunities to share these truths are limited.

Our church is very inclusive, and yes, that means that plenty of the people who come aren't even Christians, and some would just about agree with some of the "nicer" doctrines but would baulk at anything harder to swallow. But I don't confuse our local church with "THE CHURCH", i.e. the worldwide body of true believers.

Interestingly, we had a recent Bible study evening about hell and so on, and essentially our vicar outlined precisely the truths found here as his beliefs! He has never openly preached about this (his sermons tend to be gentle, reflective, "thought for the day" stuff). I first found BT as I studied around some challenges given to me by a member of my church small group, who was already wise regarding UR. I have found several opportunities already to get fellow congregants thinking about these issues.

Finally - and this isn't quite the same in the USA I don't think - but we do have an "established church" in the UK. Even in a small village there will be a parish church, who's vicar also performs pastoral visits to the infirm and elderly. You can be an atheist with no family who has never been to church, but if you are dying and would like to speak to a vicar at 3am, there will be someone there for you. Personally I think that is valuable. And that means that if you are having a tough time, you move to a new town and you decide to randomly go to church, there will be an Anglican church nearby that should welcome you.
So one of the other reasons I go is because anyone wondering about God, "seeking" etc. is likely to head there as a first port of call, and I can welcome them, invite them to dinner, help them think about these things even if they're not even sure whether they believe in God or not, well before we start talking about deeper scriptural truths.

[Craig]

Sounds like your congregation is right for you and know this,  God has you where you need to be at this point in time. 

Craig

[Abednego]

Sounds like your congregation is right for you and know this,  God has you where you need to be at this point in time. 

Craig

Exactly, and that about takes care of this...

I suspect most will disagree!

[indianabob]

New friend Farlsborough,

I'm one who believes that God selects the folks God will work with early in their lives.
We don't know when, but it could in some cases even be generational.

I was born in 1935 into a Presbyterian family that didn't discuss religion or attend services very often. We observed all the traditions such as Christmas & Halloween but there was no Bible study, not even when I joined the church youth groups or Boy Scouts. We just belonged to that congregation and fellowshiped with them loved our minister etc. similar to your own experience.
I've since been through 30 years of Worldwide (sabbath keeping) and 15 years of independent study to arrive at this point in my journey and what I have learned is that God is VERY patient and LONG SUFFERING with those God has chosen to train to become His servants/friends. God lets us learn through personal experience rather than demanding immediate obedience in most instances. So I'm confident that God will let you share you new understanding with as many friends as you desire and let you learn from that opportunity.
I will be interested to learn how it all plays out during the next few years. Please do share from time to time.

Sincerely, Indiana Bob

I'm going to play devil's advocate, I suspect most will disagree!

I'm in the UK and I do go to our local Anglican church. Why? Certainly not for the in-depth teaching, but for the community aspect. Unless you have several local friends and families who all subcribe to the truths found here, it's going to be a lonely existence and what is more, you're likely to find your opportunities to share these truths are limited.

Our church is very inclusive, and yes, that means that plenty of the people who come aren't even Christians, and some would just about agree with some of the "nicer" doctrines but would baulk at anything harder to swallow. But I don't confuse our local church with "THE CHURCH", i.e. the worldwide body of true believers.

Interestingly, we had a recent Bible study evening about hell and so on, and essentially our vicar outlined precisely the truths found here as his beliefs! He has never openly preached about this (his sermons tend to be gentle, reflective, "thought for the day" stuff). I first found BT as I studied around some challenges given to me by a member of my church small group, who was already wise regarding UR. I have found several opportunities already to get fellow congregants thinking about these issues.

Finally - and this isn't quite the same in the USA I don't think - but we do have an "established church" in the UK. Even in a small village there will be a parish church, who's vicar also performs pastoral visits to the infirm and elderly. You can be an atheist with no family who has never been to church, but if you are dying and would like to speak to a vicar at 3am, there will be someone there for you. Personally I think that is valuable. And that means that if you are having a tough time, you move to a new town and you decide to randomly go to church, there will be an Anglican church nearby that should welcome you.
So one of the other reasons I go is because anyone wondering about God, "seeking" etc. is likely to head there as a first port of call, and I can welcome them, invite them to dinner, help them think about these things even if they're not even sure whether they believe in God or not, well before we start talking about deeper scriptural truths.

[lareli]

Rick I like what you said about poisoning a dog.

I'm not trying to 'sell' you anything nor do I have disdain for anyone here OR anyone in the church.  But I do think its a religious and irresponsible line of thinking for you to assume that if I believed what Ray wrote than I would change my position. Change my position to what exactly Rick? To your position? Do you suppose that if you and I believe what Ray wrote that we would then have the same opinions?

Your opinions and feelings toward church are not strictly based on what you've read from Rays writings, but they're based on Rays writings AND your personal experience with a church. It's a mistake for anyone to take their own personal experiences and make it 'the rule' for everyone else... In any matter not just church. 

I'm not afraid of the big bad wolf at church. I don't feel offended or threatened by the church. I don't look at them as my enemy but as my future brothers and sisters. I never want to make the mistake of looking upon ANYONE as if I'm better than them, or as if I am 'right' and they're 'wrong'. None of us are 'right' we are all 'wrong'. They're are deeper spiritual truths that none of us will know in this age. No one has all the truth.

Christ said 'why do you call me Lord but don't do what I say?' He never said 'why do you call me Lord but don't believe the right doctrine?' Isn't what you do with the knowledge you have more important than how much knowledge you have? I mean, is there going to be some sort of quiz from God someday to see who's got the best doctrine? Will it be true or false or multiple choice?

[John from Kentucky]

To each his own.  Jesus will save all eventually.

But if I attended a physical church now, it would be a spiritual death sentence to me.

I am a lonely wanderer on the earth, waiting for the return of the Great King.

Jesus made me free from the great false church.  I am so thankful for the magnificent blessing He gave me of freedom.  Never will I return to Satan's slavery.

[Abednego]

Back to what Craig said.  Robby is where he should be right now and JfK is where he should be right now. And neither of you should be doing anything different.

Until you should be, then you will be.

I still attend a Babylonian church at the moment.  I don't want to be there, but I have my reasons for doing so. Everyone here has their reasons (causes) for doing what they do.

I find it usually doesn't help to explain to people why I am doing something.  When you explain something to someone, by human nature they reach into their personal experiences to find a way to relate.  If they do not have the same experience, they will pick something the closest and form their opinion based on that experience. I have seen this over and over and over.  Enough times to makle me believe this is the rule not the exception.

Unless you know why someone is doing what they are doing I don't think it wise to have any opinion on the matter.

And by saying know, I mean having walked their walk and being privy to exactly what God is doing in their life.

[rick]

Hi Largeli,

I was reading something to the effect that Satan throne is in the church, also Satan is bound to the church. I will say there was a time I loved going to church, one could find me in the church more than once in a 24 hour period.

I personally will not step one foot into a church today. I will not put anyone under law and say you can not go to church.

If anyone ask me a question concerning my belief system and they disagree with what I believe I don’t feel in anyway compelled to get that one to see it my way. In fact I won’t talk about my belief system any further.

I agree that anyone who now attends church will be our brothers and sisters one day but right now they are not.

When two nations go to war they are enemy’s of each other at the time they are at war but when the war is over they will no longer be enemy’s

Ray has much to say about the synagogue of Satan in his writings and its my understanding that one should familiarize themselves and agree with Ray’s writings before joining this site so that all who belong to this site are like minded.

I had read some of your comments concerning the church you use to or still attend and I notice you speak well of them and how they help the needy and do all sorts of good works, my position and attitude with any church today is what do they teach, what do they believe ?

If they teach the doctrine of hell or the trinity or that when people die they go to heaven or they go to hell or that one must ask Christ into their life before they die or they will be eternally lost then I’m not interested in attending that church.

Unfortunately these are the things Christendom teaches and because I know these are the things they teach I will not step one foot into their door.

If one is going to church to socialize and not going to learn the belief system of Christendom then maybe no harm can come of it, maybe but faith comes by hearing and one should be carful what they listen to.

Whatever people do is between God and them not between God ,them and me , I have enough on my own plate in life without having to add more.

Jesus is savior of the world not Rick. 

[cheekie3]

All -

Is it about our opinions - or "doing and living what Jesus has said in His Word"?

Can two walk together unless they agree - and what is primary to this if not "God's Word".

I personally do not value anyone's opinion, including my own - and my aim is for my opinion(s) to be "His Scriptural Spiritual Truth" as imparted to us by His Holy Spirit.

We either Love Him and His Word, or we Despise His Word.

Those that Despise His Word will always be angry at those who state it and live it.

We therefore cannot avoid upsetting those that Despise His Word.

I agree that we are all where we should be as our Beloved Father has pre prepared our very heart's desires, thoughts, speech and conduct.

We are either being set free by "The Truth" or we are still in Bondage believing lies as "The Truth".

Regards, George.