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Author Topic: Attending Church  (Read 43845 times)

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se7en

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Re: Attending Church
« Reply #20 on: July 23, 2014, 05:50:05 PM »

Robby,

I am going through a very similar situation at the moment, I hope this helps...

We know that we don't live by bread alone but by EVERY Word that proceeds out of the mouth of God. Each one of us, in our own age will live out the spiritual Words. We will all go through Christ.

I have been put through the fire and continually live in the fire of the Word which brings judgment to the House of God now, which temple we are. However, my wife and kids are not there yet. I've told them of the dangers and lies that prevail in Babylon but I, as a messenger, can only do my part... I cannot MAKE them do anything (Lord knows I originally tried and have paid dearly for it).

Eventually (and it may take the great white throne judgement) for my wife and kids, they too will come out of the lies of the "church". But until then, I'm learning through His Word and patience to know when to speak and when not to.

I personally cannot go back to babylon, but they have yet to experience the brightness of His coming in their life, I can pray that they will experience this (judgment in their life) and hope that they do, but it's all by His timing, not mine. 

How humbling is that!





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wcd

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Re: Attending Church
« Reply #21 on: July 24, 2014, 10:21:01 AM »

To Robbie.....If you have been called out of Babylon beware of going back even if it may look a good idea for various reasons.Does not the phrase a dog returning to his vomit apply,best ask God for the right answer.
« Last Edit: July 24, 2014, 10:24:39 AM by wcd »
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Mike Gagne

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Re: Attending Church
« Reply #22 on: July 29, 2014, 01:38:23 AM »


Hi Largeli,

I was reading something to the effect that Satan throne is in the church, also Satan is bound to the church. I will say there was a time I loved going to church, one could find me in the church more than once in a 24 hour period.

I personally will not step one foot into a church today. I will not put anyone under law and say you can not go to church.

If anyone ask me a question concerning my belief system and they disagree with what I believe I don’t feel in anyway compelled to get that one to see it my way. In fact I won’t talk about my belief system any further.

I agree that anyone who now attends church will be our brothers and sisters one day but right now they are not.

When two nations go to war they are enemy’s of each other at the time they are at war but when the war is over they will no longer be enemy’s

Ray has much to say about the synagogue of Satan in his writings and its my understanding that one should familiarize themselves and agree with Ray’s writings before joining this site so that all who belong to this site are like minded.

I had read some of your comments concerning the church you use to or still attend and I notice you speak well of them and how they help the needy and do all sorts of good works, my position and attitude with any church today is what do they teach, what do they believe ?

If they teach the doctrine of hell or the trinity or that when people die they go to heaven or they go to hell or that one must ask Christ into their life before they die or they will be eternally lost then I’m not interested in attending that church.

Unfortunately these are the things Christendom teaches and because I know these are the things they teach I will not step one foot into their door.

If one is going to church to socialize and not going to learn the belief system of Christendom then maybe no harm can come of it, maybe but faith comes by hearing and one should be carful what they listen to.

Whatever people do is between God and them not between God ,them and me , I have enough on my own plate in life without having to add more.

Jesus is savior of the world not Rick.  :)
Sounds like your congregation is right for you and know this,  God has you where you need to be at this point in time. 

Craig
I myself will never go back into Babylon, Rick I have to agree with you , reading and agreeing with Rays teaching is what this site is about! I believe Rays teachings are inspired by God to teach the few!   Craig is exactly right! That's why I like this site God sent me here!! 
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lareli

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Re: Attending Church
« Reply #23 on: July 29, 2014, 06:01:55 PM »

Since you guys are way more familiar with Rays writings than myself, (not being condescending btw) can you show me where Ray said that coming out of Babylon means not attending a church anymore?

In the free will part D he suggests that the biggest part of coming out of Babylon is to put down our unscriptural belief of free will.. I don't have a problem with rejecting the free will doctrine... Nor do I believe in an eternal flaming hell where unbelievers will be tortured and never let out. And when I say I go to church I mean like maybe 2 to 3 times per year on average. It's always for someone else's benefit not mine but I don't mind either way. There's nothing for me there spiritually but I'm not going to act like I'm too good for anyone. Not just christians. I don't want to treat others like I'm right and they're wrong. Like I said before we are all wrong. You might have a more accurate picture of who God really is than the Christians do but I'm pretty sure you still have misconceptions about God that you won't know in this age.

You guys were all sold out for the Christian Jesus and Christian God at one point weren't you? I'll bet you would've died for what you falsely believed too right? Than God opened your eyes and proved you wrong. I don't know about you guys but that has humbled me. It sounds like it has had the opposite effect on some though. Making them more proud. I'm not directing that to any one person here. Just an overall observation.

It says 'come out of her' but it doesn't end there.. 'Come out of her, that you don't partake of her sins' it's so that you don't partake of her sins and then suffer her plagues. It's not like if you go to a church her sins are just going to rub off on you. I wouldn't join a small group or anything in a church but if a family member is dedicating a baby and wants me there I'll go! I'll sing and praise and worship too! I'll be polite and respectful when the teaching begins. They're spiritually blind. I wouldn't pick on a physically blind man so I'm not going to treat spiritually blind people as if they're lower than me either. They're going to be my brothers and sisters and I am not at war with them. Our war isn't against people!

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John from Kentucky

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Kat

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Re: Attending Church
« Reply #25 on: July 29, 2014, 11:21:38 PM »


Hi largeli,

Yes we all have come from the church, we need to have gone through it in order to really know it. But once we are released from that prison of deception by God's good grace, should we then and go back and visit it? Is that not like a slap in the face of God for what He has delivered us from?

Luke 9:62  But Jesus said unto him, No man, having put his hand to the plow, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God.

I have no animosity towards the church whatsoever, it is what it is... but I cannot visit in good conscience and join them as if it does not matter what they teach and stand for. I won't say I would not attend a funeral in a church, but that is of necessity sometimes.

Here are some excerpts from the article '23 Minutes in Hell.'

http://bible-truths.com/23-minutes-in-hell.html -----

Scriptures blow away virtually all of the damning and unscriptural doctrines of Christendom-the immortal soul, man's supposed 'free will, the unnecessary doctrine of resurrecting dead people, the 'in this life only' theory of salvation, the sentencing before judgment teaching, the failure of Jesus to "BE the Saviour of the world," the failure of Jesus to take away all the sins of the world, the "God is justified in torturing billions for all eternity" blasphemy, the failure of God to be "ALL in All," the blasphemous teaching that man's will is greater than God's, and that man can thwart God's plan through his fabled free will, God desires to save all humanity, but it just won't happen. Etc., etc., etc.
v

for over ten years now, have been warning people over the Worldwide Web, of the many damnable and evil teachings and practices of the Church. And of all the false teachings, there is no greater blasphemy than to accuse God of making the ultimate terrorist torture chamber where He apparently will vent His frustration and inability to save most of His creatures. Don't you be guilty of such a sin by teaching it or condoning those who do teach it.
v

So why the big deal? Why do I take the time and go into so much detail concerning Bill's book and the Christian doctrine of an eternal hell of torture?

Why? Because Bill's book and this Christian doctrine promote the most damnable heresy on the face of the earth in the history of the world, that's why. People by the millions (billions) have been brainwashed into accepting this obscene and spiritual pornographic smut. I want to totally discredit Bill's entire fabricated evil swill.

To attribute such vile character to the God of creation, the God of our Lord and Saviour, the God of the Holy Scriptures, is the ultimate blasphemy!
v

orthodox Christians do NOT believe that when Jesus was nailed to the cross and died for the sins of the world, that he really died and was dead. No, they think that Jesus' body died, but that Jesus Himself (the real Jesus) [1] Went to hell, or [2] Went to heaven, or [3] Went to paradise--anything but TO THE GRAVE. Only His physical body died and only His physical body was buried, therefore, according to the "souls never die" heresy, Jesus is not the Saviour of the world--the Saviour of World is a CADAVAR!!

Jesus contradicts these lying frauds: "I am He that lives and was DEAD" (Rev. 1:18). On the third day, God the Father did not bring Jesus back from sheol, or hades, or hell, or heaven, or paradise, but rather "God the Father raised Jesus from the DEAD" (Gal. 1:1). They teach such unscriptural heresy because if Jesus was DEAD when He died, then we too are DEAD when we die. And being dead, we don't "go" anywhere--not to heaven, not to paradise, and not to hell.
v

It seems impossible to believe for most Christians, that the Church of God is God's Church, and yet it is at the same time "The Throne of Satan" (Rev. 2:13). Virtually all Christians that have ever lived came into a knowledge of Jesus Christ through the Church. But then they read how that the Church is filled with enemies of God, doctrines of demons, where many spiritual crimes and character flaws are touted as virtues.
v

SATAN'S MINISTERS AND PASTORS APPEAR RIGHTEOUS

"And no marvel; for Satan HIMSELF is transformed into an AN ANGEL OF LIGHT. Therefore it is no great thing if HIS MINISTERS also be transformed as the MINISTERS OF RIGHTEOUSNESS; whose end shall be according to their works" (II Cor. 11:14-15)

No, Satan is not transformed into a devil in a red suit, with a tail and a pitchfork.

Nor are Satan's ministers transformed into hideously ugly and deformed demons. Satan presents himself to the world as an "Angel of light," and his ministers are seen (yes, Satan's angels can be seen, but not his demons) as "Ministers of righteousness."
v

One day this whole Christian charade will be exposed for the whole world to see.

"Mystery Babylon" will no longer be a mystery to anyone. "For nothing is secret, that shall not be made manifest; neither anything hid, that shall not be known and come abroad" (Luke 8:17). Satan's ministers will be exposed. Paul shows us an allegory concerning the Church down through the centuries:

"For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman. But he who is of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise. Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which genders to bondage, which is Agar. For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answers to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children. But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all" (Gal. 4:44-26)

In Scripture, the Church is likened to a woman. Jerusalem that is in bondage and Jerusalem that is from above which is free. The fraction of the Church in bondage is a woman who rides a beast: "And the angel said unto me, Wherefore did you marvel? I will tell you the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carries her..." (Rev. 17:7);

"And the kings of the earth, who have committed fornication and lived deliciously with her, shall bewail her and lament for her, when they shall see the smoke of her burning" (Rev. 18:9)

Mystery Babylon is that portion of the Church which has the ministers of Satan as their teachers and pastors. And those whom God is calling to repentance and obedience to Him are admonished to come out of that system:

"And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, 'Come out of her My people, that you be not partakers of her sins, and that you receive not of her plagues" (Rev. 18:4)

God's "people" are warned to "come out of" Mystery Babylon the Great. Unless they come out of physical, carnal Jerusalem, they cannot enter into "Jerusalem which is above" which is free, and which is "the mother of us all."
---------------------------------------------------------------

mercy, peace and love
Kat
« Last Edit: July 29, 2014, 11:28:38 PM by Kat »
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Rhys 🕊

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Re: Attending Church
« Reply #26 on: July 29, 2014, 11:27:23 PM »



Yes we all have come from the church, we need to have gone through it in order to really know it. But once we are released from that prison of deception by God's good grace, should we then and go back and visit it? Is that not like a slap in the face of God for what He has delivered us from?


Yep
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Mike Gagne

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Re: Attending Church
« Reply #27 on: July 30, 2014, 01:39:43 AM »

Amen Kat... :)
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lareli

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Re: Attending Church
« Reply #28 on: August 01, 2014, 05:52:01 PM »


Hi largeli,

Yes we all have come from the church, we need to have gone through it in order to really know it. But once we are released from that prison of deception by God's good grace, should we then and go back and visit it? Is that not like a slap in the face of God for what He has delivered us from?


Thanks for the reply Kat,

Actually if I were released from a prison I would certainly hope I would go back and visit those still stuck in the prison. Absolutely. If someone (God in this case) paid for me to get out of prison I would not see it as a slap in that persons (again, Gods) face if I were to go back and visit those who are not yet free... but whom I know someday will be free and will be my brothers and sisters...

If I were the one who freed someone from prison I would not see it as a slap in my face if that someone went back to show love to those still serving their sentences. On the contrary I would interpret their act of love and empathy as appreciation and gratitude for the freedom I provided.

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Kat

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Re: Attending Church
« Reply #29 on: August 01, 2014, 07:10:14 PM »


largeli, I think you are ignoring what is trying to be shown here. It is not that I/we are against the people still in church, we all have family and/or friends there. They are deceived just as we once were and I'm sure some of us are still friends and visit with some we knew from church... we can do that in numerous ways without having to go to church.

What I/we are trying to get across is that the institution - Christendom where they teach heresy and blasphemy God in some or usually many ways every time they meet, now that is a very different story. You seem very defensive about the church, yet Christ spoke out strongly against the scribes and Pharisees (His era, while on earth church leaders). You may defend the church all you like, but it does not change what it is, Mystery Babylon the Great!

Mat 23:13  "How terrible it will be for you, scribes and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You shut the door to the kingdom from heaven in people's faces. You don't go in yourselves, and you don't allow those who are trying to enter to go in.
v. 14  "How terrible it will be for you, scribes and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You devour widows' houses and say long prayers to cover it up. Therefore, you will receive greater condemnation!
v. 15  "How terrible it will be for you, scribes and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to make a single convert, and when this happens you make him twice as fit for hell (gehenna - judgment) as you are. (ISV)

mercy, peace and love
Kat 
« Last Edit: August 01, 2014, 09:09:31 PM by Kat »
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cheekie3

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Re: Attending Church
« Reply #30 on: August 02, 2014, 06:43:09 AM »

largeli -

Unless The Lord opens up their understanding - the likely outcome of you going back to your church is that they will hate you and persecute you - unless you keep quiet about the Truths of God imparted to you heart and mind by The Spirit of God.

George.
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loretta

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Re: Attending Church
« Reply #31 on: August 05, 2014, 03:30:53 AM »

Sounds like your congregation is right for you and know this,  God has you where you need to be at this point in time. 

Craig's post got me thinking about free will.  My brother started out a believer in his early twenties, fell in love and married a RC, married in the RC tradition, albeit toting a black bound bible under his hand.  He went on to baptize his kids, first communion, confirmation et al and is now firmly entrenched in the establishment/world, completely blinded to any spiritual truth.

So yes, God has us where He wants us to be - no free will there - but we are caused to make choices and we're held accountable for them.

It won't be easy, but you will learn great lessons along the way and the family will draw closer together as you worship in your home. Remember to keep it simple and friendly and fun. God's son Jesus is a fun fellow and very patient with the "little children' including all of us on the forum.

Indianabob's post brought back a rush of memories - all that I yearned to do and ended up doing much much more. I bought an array of bibles for my daughter - kids, adolescents, youth, girls; Christian books, videos, even music - hoping they would bop to Jesus Christ Superhero, Sunday school style :) Till she rebelled. Even our prayer and worship time was forced, more of an exercise - we didn't know how to pray at the time!  Now we don't do much of anything, but in the course of just living out our days, I take every opportunity to teach them the Word. Sometimes I use words. What I think I am teaching them the most is that I am fallen, a sinner, so degenerate, that without the grace of God I cannot be saved.  While I attended church I couldn't teach them thus, as I was constantly pretending to be a 'saved Christian' on my best behavior, wearing a happy, going-to- heaven mask. Was that difficult! Now here at the epi-sunagoge, or upperoom, I am free to be me, allowing Christ to work his wondrous way in me.

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robby.morales

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Re: Attending Church
« Reply #32 on: August 05, 2014, 07:43:12 PM »

BT Family:

Thank you all for the encouragement. Last Sunday my family and I gathered for an extending devotion. We studied Agape and Philos by listening to Ray's teaching on Why God Loves Us. Everyone remarked how much they enjoyed studying the scriptures together at home and for once we got to eat lunch at a decent hour!. :-) This week we will be looking at the Foundational Truths teaching. Ray will be our guest again via audio. :-)

I can't thank you all enough for the admonition and warnings. My wife and I are still wrestling with how we respond to all our friends at church. And because I was the worship pastor there for 4 years and had attended for many years before that, I have a lot of friends. But God's grace is greater. We are content to allow the Lord to lead and guide us and not lose heart in the struggle.

On a side note, here are some of the questions I am currently cueing up:

1. eSword: does it have all the resources that Ray cites in his studies?
2. Does anyone have notes from live teaching he gave, especially the ones from the creation conference he gave in Nashville? The transcripts are helpful but the subject matter is so complex I can't completely follow without notes.

Thanks again for everyones responses to this post.

Blessings!

Robby



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Dave in Tenn

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Re: Attending Church
« Reply #33 on: August 05, 2014, 07:53:54 PM »

Robby, there was a 'hand-out' at the Nashville conference, but it wasn't so much 'notes' on the conference as some notes concerning geology and what not.  Other than that, you pretty much have access to what we who were there did.  Dennis may have more info on that.

Esword can be used to pull up numerous translations.  It can also be used with Bible Dictionaries, English dictionaries, and (perhaps the most useful to me) an exhaustive concordance of the KJV where you can do 'word-studies' from the original languages, see every passage where it was used, etc.  You can also download maps, histories, and other bible-study resources, including commentaries....though I would stay away from the latter until you are well-grounded.

I'm really happy for your report. 
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lareli

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Re: Attending Church
« Reply #34 on: August 11, 2014, 06:00:57 PM »


largeli, I think you are ignoring what is trying to be shown here. It is not that I/we are against the people still in church, we all have family and/or friends there. They are deceived just as we once were and I'm sure some of us are still friends and visit with some we knew from church... we can do that in numerous ways without having to go to church.

What I/we are trying to get across is that the institution - Christendom where they teach heresy and blasphemy God in some or usually many ways every time they meet, now that is a very different story. You seem very defensive about the church, yet Christ spoke out strongly against the scribes and Pharisees (His era, while on earth church leaders). You may defend the church all you like, but it does not change what it is, Mystery Babylon the Great!

Mat 23:13  "How terrible it will be for you, scribes and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You shut the door to the kingdom from heaven in people's faces. You don't go in yourselves, and you don't allow those who are trying to enter to go in.
v. 14  "How terrible it will be for you, scribes and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You devour widows' houses and say long prayers to cover it up. Therefore, you will receive greater condemnation!
v. 15  "How terrible it will be for you, scribes and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to make a single convert, and when this happens you make him twice as fit for hell (gehenna - judgment) as you are. (ISV)

mercy, peace and love
Kat

Sorry Kat. I don't mean to ignore what you're saying. I think I understand but the problem I'm having is that I don't see how the blasphemy of the church is any worse than say the blasphemy of nationalism for example. Saying 'God bless America' and then rallying for the slaughter of other people is blasphemy no?

I know there's some who claim to have 'come out of her' because they reject church doctrine and don't go to church. But then fail to come out of all the other lies that they live under.

Like I pointed out in some of rays emails and teachings on another thread, Ray showed that you can't be an ambassador for Christ and also adhere to the beliefs of nationalism or vote or support the troops in killing and slaughtering.

It's not so much that I disagree with what you say about the church but I do believe mystery babylon is every false and evil belief. I do believe that mystery babylon is the church but not JUST the church and to 'come out of her' physically would mean removing yourself from the world altogether and not just a church building. We can't physically do that. I think coming out of her means to not be of the world while being in the world.



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Kat

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Re: Attending Church
« Reply #35 on: August 11, 2014, 07:57:00 PM »


You are right about the world being as bad or worse than the church and yes we should obey what Christ said "love your enemies, and pray for those who persecute you"... but we have to be separate to a degree. No we cannot remove ourselves altogether, but we should not be 'friends' with the world or the church.

James 4:4  Adulterers and adulteresses! Do you not know that friendship with the world is enmity with God? Whoever therefore wants to be a friend of the world makes himself an enemy of God.

friend 1 : one attached to another by respect or affection 2 : acquaintance 3 : one who is not hostile 4 : one who supports or favors something 5 : a member of the Society of Friends.

mercy, peace and love
Kat
« Last Edit: August 12, 2014, 04:02:59 PM by Kat »
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Joel

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Re: Attending Church
« Reply #36 on: August 12, 2014, 03:05:39 PM »

I can share my experience about "Attending Church."
God chooses people from all walks of life, and as for me I had already been away from playing Church and organized religion for about twenty two years before ever knowing about Ray Smith.
So when I saw the Bible-Truths web site I had been searching for Truth, and desiring a closer walk with God more sincerely for about a year before that.
No I didn't jump on board with both feet from day one, but it was a gradual process as God showed me that what Ray was teaching was correct according to the scriptures.

The disappointing thing is, my friends and family don't see the things that I accept as the Truth as being the Truth at all.
Where I am right now works for me, were others are at the moment must work for them also.
Who can resist God? no one.
I would ask the question though, what scriptures support the idea that we can continue attending and supporting the local Churches on the corner that teach contrary to the Word of God, when there are so many scriptures that say otherwise?
The vast amount of teachings that God has allowed Ray, Dennis, and those that support BT web site, are not Truths or teachings that are smooth sayings, or for those having itching ears.

Joel

 
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lareli

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Re: Attending Church
« Reply #37 on: August 12, 2014, 05:46:37 PM »


You are right about the world being as bad or worse than the church and yes we should obey what Christ said "love your enemies, and pray for those who persecute you"... but we have to be separate to a degree. No we cannot remove ourselves altogether, but we should not be 'friends' with the world or the church.

James 4:4  Adulterers and adulteresses! Do you not know that friendship with the world is enmity with God? Whoever therefore wants to be a friend of the world makes himself an enemy of God.

friend 1 : one attached to another by respect or affection 2 : acquaintance 3 : one who is not hostile 4 : one who supports or favors something 5 : a member of the Society of Friends.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

ahhh... I hear ya.
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Stacey

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Re: Attending Church
« Reply #38 on: August 14, 2014, 11:36:16 AM »

largeli, I appreciate your perspective. I understand also the points made by everyone else. There isn't anything I can add to the conversation really but as I was reading the thread a thought came up.

How can we as followers of the teachings laid out by Ray Smith be truly free from the evil empire Babylon IF, at the mere mention of it,  our lips begin to curl and we put up our arms in a big X as if we are being forced to look upon blasphemous, poisonous scenes sending us into screeching screams of ,,,,,noooooooooooooo not that!!!!!!!

I'd say, we are not free from it at all IF this be the case.

Dang ole silly thoughts, how they enter the mind ya know it can't be stopped.
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Dave in Tenn

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Re: Attending Church
« Reply #39 on: August 15, 2014, 01:44:06 AM »

Stacey, I think I understand where you are coming from.  I have the same 'feelings' about those so hung up on the 'world'...not free if we're still entangled, even in opposition.

On that score, however, I don't completely agree with the statement that the 'world' is worse than the 'church'.  It's more complicated than that...and it comes down ultimately to the individual... and maybe that returns it to simplicity.

For an example...I can smile at some ordinary Joe saying he did such-and-such by his own free will because 1.  He probably doesn't know and has never thought about what he is saying, and 2. It sure SEEMS like we do.  It takes no miracle to 'believe' what feels right.  I can't smile at a  proselytizer who applies this deception to Spiritual things.

Look...all these things are in the hands of, by the plan of, and for the purposes  of God.  It ain't always gonna be like it is.

Robby started this thread and later reported that he had begun to teach his own children.  May God bless his efforts.

Eph_6:4  And, ye fathers, provoke not your children to wrath: but bring them up in the nurture and admonition of the Lord.
Col_3:21  Fathers, provoke not your children to anger, lest they be discouraged.

I hope those words have new or more meaning than they did before, Robby.




And this from John, though his 'children' were of all ages:

3Jn_1:4  I have no greater joy than to hear that my children walk in truth.

 
 


« Last Edit: August 15, 2014, 03:32:54 AM by Dave in Tenn »
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Heb 10:32  But you must continue to remember those earlier days, how after you were enlightened you endured a hard and painful struggle.
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