bible-truths.com/forums

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

Need Account Help?  Email bibletruths.forum@gmail.com   

Forgotten password reminders does not work. Contact the email above and state what you want your password changed to. (it must be at least 8 characters)

Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5 6   Go Down

Author Topic: Attending Church  (Read 43545 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

lareli

  • Bible-Truths Forum Member
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 786
Re: Attending Church
« Reply #40 on: August 21, 2014, 06:38:06 PM »

Dave I don't agree that the world is worse than the church either. But I think it's because the church is part if the world. Mystery babylon the great encompasses the church as well as every other lie we live under. I think for the most part the church is just like any other political group. Christians are political pawns.

Kat gave an analogy of being freed from prison and what it means to return to prison. I think another way to look at it would be the matrix. Not the matrix as in a computer simulation but the matrix being the lies that we are all born under to keep us from knowing the truth. We can be freed from the lies and mental slavery but unlike in the movie.. We can't simply unplug and wake up in another world. We have to finish this life in this world but we can do so while being free because we see that it's all lies. We have to play by the rules of most of the lies but we don't have to believe them. That's how I understand 'come out of her'.

Logged
I’m just what you made God.. ~Kid Cudi

Dave in Tenn

  • Bible-Truths Forum Member
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4311
    • FaceBook David Sanderson
Re: Attending Church
« Reply #41 on: August 22, 2014, 02:43:32 AM »

Could be, Largeli.  But there is a VERY practical problem with that observation:  One man's 'worldly deception' is another man's 'reasonable conclusion'.  I see it everywhere, and trust me, we'd see it here too if we let it.

I do my best with marked failures to NOT get involved with the affairs of the world, nor join in their debates.  Because, to me, ultimately it's not about who is RIGHT or WRONG about their 'world-view' or various portions of it, but worldliness itself.

1Jn 2:16,17  For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.  And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.

Besides...just because there appear to be two sides to a 'debate', or multiple ways to 'see the world', does not mean that one of them is 'right'.  Let GOD be true and EVERY MAN a liar.  Be still and know that He is God.

That may be easier for an older fellow than a younger one.  I'm getting older, and I have seen too much.  And likely you (and everyone else) thinks I'm talking about all those pesky 'other people' who are so, so, so very wrong.   ;D

Hopefully you'll never know what I think about EVERYTHING...and the world will pass away.



 


« Last Edit: August 22, 2014, 03:03:52 AM by Dave in Tenn »
Logged
Heb 10:32  But you must continue to remember those earlier days, how after you were enlightened you endured a hard and painful struggle.

lareli

  • Bible-Truths Forum Member
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 786
Re: Attending Church
« Reply #42 on: August 22, 2014, 02:09:13 PM »

Could be, Largeli.  But there is a VERY practical problem with that observation:  One man's 'worldly deception' is another man's 'reasonable conclusion'.  I see it everywhere, and trust me, we'd see it here too if we let it.


Dave I'm not sure I understand, could you give an example? If you don't want to reply here could you pm me?
Logged
I’m just what you made God.. ~Kid Cudi

Dave in Tenn

  • Bible-Truths Forum Member
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4311
    • FaceBook David Sanderson
Re: Attending Church
« Reply #43 on: August 22, 2014, 06:32:26 PM »

What part?  The 'one man's 'worldly deception is another man's reasonable conclusion' part?  Or the 'we'd see it here too if we let it' part? 
Logged
Heb 10:32  But you must continue to remember those earlier days, how after you were enlightened you endured a hard and painful struggle.

lareli

  • Bible-Truths Forum Member
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 786
Re: Attending Church
« Reply #44 on: August 22, 2014, 06:56:52 PM »

Ya sorry, the one mans deception is another mans reasonable conclusion part. I included the 'we'd see it here too if we let it' because I wasn't sure if that meant you didn't want it discussed on here..

As far as the 'one mans deception is another mans reasonable conclusion' that's where I'm confused. I would think that the man who reached the reasonable conclusion would be deceived but I'm not quite sure I understand what the statement meant.
Logged
I’m just what you made God.. ~Kid Cudi

Dave in Tenn

  • Bible-Truths Forum Member
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4311
    • FaceBook David Sanderson
Re: Attending Church
« Reply #45 on: August 22, 2014, 10:14:42 PM »

I'm talking about worldly issues here.  Pick a topic.  Pick an issue.

It simply means that two people are going to see the same thing two different ways.  Any topic.  Any issue.  One may think his 'conclusion' is rational and the other person is deceived.  The other may think the same thing..and that is the only thing they agree on--the other is deceived.

Any topic, any issue.  Twenty people are going to see it twenty different ways--ten may agree with one broad conclusion and ten with another, but among each ten they will not agree 100%.  Each one will have 'reason' to think as they do and therefor, think the other ten are 'deceived' and that maybe the other nine in their 'group' are just not as advanced as he/she is.

If I think the moon is made of cheese, then I must think so for a reason.  To me, it makes perfect sense and every attempt to dissuade me or educate me will simply involve more and more people in the 'deception' brought by the anti-cheese-moonie folks..  Why, oh WHY can't these people see that the moon is made of cheese?

I'll go on record here with some degree of safety that I actually think the CHEESE-MOONIES are the ones 'deceived'.  ;)   But what good does that do them if they are already convinced and argument only makes them dig in their heels harder?

On Spiritual matters, Ray didn't 'win me over' with his mountains of evidence and scriptural proofs.  I believed in a matter of minutes--after 40 years of questionings to the point (and past the point) of total despair.  I didn't need the evidence and scriptural proofs until AFTER that, when that old baptist preacher that lives in my head started trying to shake this 'foolishness' out of me.

And--at it's best--that's one purpose the forum serves---pointing to the mountains and the Scripture.  We're not here to 'convince' anybody of anything.  Period.
« Last Edit: August 23, 2014, 03:16:47 AM by Dave in Tenn »
Logged
Heb 10:32  But you must continue to remember those earlier days, how after you were enlightened you endured a hard and painful struggle.

Dave in Tenn

  • Bible-Truths Forum Member
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4311
    • FaceBook David Sanderson
Re: Attending Church
« Reply #46 on: August 22, 2014, 11:23:07 PM »

side note:  I may have accidentally deleted someone's post here.  Sorry, if I did..
Logged
Heb 10:32  But you must continue to remember those earlier days, how after you were enlightened you endured a hard and painful struggle.

Kat

  • Guest
Re: Attending Church
« Reply #47 on: August 22, 2014, 11:42:51 PM »


Hi Dave, I agree with your analysis.

Quote
On Spiritual matters, Ray didn't 'win me over' with his mountains of evidence and scriptural proofs.  I believed in a matter of minutes--after 40 years of questionings to the point (and past the point) of total despair.

And that's the way it happened for me too. I think it was all those years of questioning, that was a preparation so at a determined moment in our life when the Holy Spirit is put in our minds and then spiritual truth can be revealed and received/understood. Without the Holy Spirit we are just having a physical experience in many varying ways and degrees. In the church they really believe they are having a spiritual experience, but most of us know it's just more human reasoning made out to be faith.

So I'm thinking maybe "worldly deception" and the "reasonable conclusion" are kind of 2 sides have the same coin type thing, until real truth comes in play, then there is a whole new way of looking at everything.

Well that's just my take on this, interesting thought though.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

Logged

lilitalienboi16

  • Bible-Truths Forum Member
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1870
Re: Attending Church
« Reply #48 on: August 23, 2014, 12:52:30 AM »

side note:  I may have accidentally deleted someone's post here.  Sorry, if I did..

LOL xD
Logged
1 Cor 1:10 "Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment."

Rhys 🕊

  • Bible-Truths Forum Member
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1385
  • 🕊
    • Facebook
Re: Attending Church
« Reply #49 on: August 23, 2014, 01:51:24 AM »

side note:  I may have accidentally deleted someone's post here.  Sorry, if I did..

Yet another excuse from the evil dictator mods  ;D ;D ;D

Rhys  :D :D :D

p.s. your not allowed to delete this post  :P
Logged
🤫

noeleena

  • Bible-Truths Forum Member
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 65
  • live life. love life.
Re: Attending Church
« Reply #50 on: August 23, 2014, 03:47:30 AM »

Hi,

Come out from among them yes as far as accepting the Lords teaching ,

If we take that a step further and say we can not accept friends into our homes from these groups regardless of what those people may or not accept as truth are we to Judge them and say no we cant have fellowship with them .

Then what jesus said and did goes against himself ,

I have a few 1000 friends and know many more  i dont care what they belive or not they are my friends ,  ill  go where ever they ask me to or ill just turn up and enjoy my time with them sunday or any  day of the week ,

If we are not to entertain people based on a belive then we may as well do what some groups have done go build a high wall around our selfs so no one can get passed  may as well be a hermit,

I get the impression of we are all on this earth together and we do need to be friends with each other and is every one going to agree on every subject ,

The Lord knows our hearts and minds , Oh and by the way when we go with the Lord he will go before us and show us where he wonts us for how ever long ,  we can be used in a way that is for us ,

When we have a closed mind the Lord wont force it open and when a door is opened for us we will be invited in , dont.... close..... others out of your life ,regardless of who they are ,

...noeleena...   
Logged

indianabob

  • Bible-Truths Forum Member
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2144
Re: Attending Church
« Reply #51 on: August 23, 2014, 12:53:16 PM »

Well said Noeleena,
Here is a passage from John that  may give some additional help on this subject.
Indiana Bob
= = =

Jn.17:1 Jesus spoke these things; and lifting up His eyes to heaven, He said, “Father, the hour has come; glorify Your Son, that the Son may glorify You, 2 even as You gave Him authority over all flesh, that to all whom You have given Him, He may give eternal life. 3 This is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent. 4 I glorified You on the earth, having accomplished the work which You have given Me to do. 5 Now, Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was.

6 “I have manifested Your name to the men whom You gave Me out of the world; they were Yours and You gave them to Me, and they have kept Your word. 7 Now they have come to know that everything You have given Me is from You; 8 for the words which You gave Me I have given to them; and they received them and truly understood that I came forth from You, and they believed that You sent Me. 9 I ask on their behalf; I do not ask on behalf of the world, but of those whom You have given Me; for they are Yours; 10 and all things that are Mine are Yours, and Yours are Mine; and I have been glorified in them. 11 I am no longer in the world; and yet they themselves are in the world, and I come to You. Holy Father, keep them in Your name, the name which You have given Me, that they may be one even as We are. 12 While I was with them, I was keeping them in Your name which You have given Me; and I guarded them and not one of them perished but the son of perdition, so that the Scripture would be fulfilled.

The Disciples in the World

13 But now I come to You; and these things I speak in the world so that they may have My joy made full in themselves. 14 I have given them Your word; and the world has hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. 15 I do not ask You to take them out of the world, but to keep them from the evil one. 16 They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. 17 Sanctify them in the truth; Your word is truth. 18 As You sent Me into the world, I also have sent them into the world. 19 For their sakes I sanctify Myself, that they themselves also may be sanctified in truth.

20 “I do not ask on behalf of these alone, but for those also who believe in Me through their word; 21 that they may all be one; even as You, Father, are in Me and I in You, that they also may be in Us, so that the world may believe that You sent Me.

Their Future Glory

22 The glory which You have given Me I have given to them, that they may be one, just as We are one; 23 I in them and You in Me, that they may be perfected in unity, so that the world may know that You sent Me, and loved them, even as You have loved Me. 24 Father, I desire that they also, whom You have given Me, be with Me where I am, so that they may see My glory which You have given Me, for You loved Me before the foundation of the world.

25 “O righteous Father, although the world has not known You, yet I have known You; and these have known that You sent Me; 26 and I have made Your name known to them, and will make it known, so that the love with which You loved Me may be in them, and I in them.”
Logged

Dave in Tenn

  • Bible-Truths Forum Member
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4311
    • FaceBook David Sanderson
Re: Attending Church
« Reply #52 on: August 23, 2014, 12:55:43 PM »

side note:  I may have accidentally deleted someone's post here.  Sorry, if I did..

Yet another excuse from the evil dictator mods  ;D ;D ;D

Rhys  :D :D :D

p.s. your not allowed to delete this post  :P

I just hope it wasn't from a cheese-moonie who felt offended.
Logged
Heb 10:32  But you must continue to remember those earlier days, how after you were enlightened you endured a hard and painful struggle.

Dave in Tenn

  • Bible-Truths Forum Member
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4311
    • FaceBook David Sanderson
Re: Attending Church
« Reply #53 on: August 23, 2014, 01:25:37 PM »

I just know this.  I am not planning to 'fellowship' with and encourage a murderer while he is murdering.   And I'm not planning to drive the car of a burglar while he is burglarizing.  I've sinned PLENTY (and still do) AND enjoyed the company of those who do.    Don't make me curl your hair, please.  I'm also not planning to ''worship" with those who "worship" when I no longer see it as worship.

1.  I make this statement NOT because I think I am better.  I know FULL WELL that not only can I be seduced to "worship" with my flesh, but I could BE A MURDERER and a burglar!  He knows my frame, and so do I! 

2.  I can (and well may have) had fellowship with a murderer or a burglar when he was NOT doing his thing.  Don't know...those weren't my things.  And I have plenty of fellowship with "worshipers" when they are not doing their thing.

3.  The Kingdom will be full of ex-murderers and ex-burglars and others who understand that it is ONLY the sovereign GRACE of God which prevented them from doing the things of others.  It will also be full of ex-worshipers in the flesh and soulishly.

I know.....I know...the kindly people in church don't  usually sink to the moral degradation of physical murders, burglars, extortionists, etc.  Lord knows my mother doesn't.    But if she did, the nature of our fellowship would change.   
« Last Edit: August 23, 2014, 01:56:01 PM by Dave in Tenn »
Logged
Heb 10:32  But you must continue to remember those earlier days, how after you were enlightened you endured a hard and painful struggle.

lareli

  • Bible-Truths Forum Member
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 786
Re: Attending Church
« Reply #54 on: August 23, 2014, 05:07:15 PM »

I'm talking about worldly issues here.  Pick a topic.  Pick an issue.

It simply means that two people are going to see the same thing two different ways.  Any topic.  Any issue.  One may think his 'conclusion' is rational and the other person is deceived.  The other may think the same thing..and that is the only thing they agree on--the other is deceived.

Any topic, any issue.  Twenty people are going to see it twenty different ways--ten may agree with one broad conclusion and ten with another, but among each ten they will not agree 100%.  Each one will have 'reason' to think as they do and therefor, think the other ten are 'deceived' and that maybe the other nine in their 'group' are just not as advanced as he/she is.

If I think the moon is made of cheese, then I must think so for a reason.  To me, it makes perfect sense and every attempt to dissuade me or educate me will simply involve more and more people in the 'deception' brought by the anti-cheese-moonie folks..  Why, oh WHY can't these people see that the moon is made of cheese?

I'll go on record here with some degree of safety that I actually think the CHEESE-MOONIES are the ones 'deceived'.  ;)   But what good does that do them if they are already convinced and argument only makes them dig in their heels harder?

On Spiritual matters, Ray didn't 'win me over' with his mountains of evidence and scriptural proofs.  I believed in a matter of minutes--after 40 years of questionings to the point (and past the point) of total despair.  I didn't need the evidence and scriptural proofs until AFTER that, when that old baptist preacher that lives in my head started trying to shake this 'foolishness' out of me.

And--at it's best--that's one purpose the forum serves---pointing to the mountains and the Scripture.  We're not here to 'convince' anybody of anything.  Period.

I think I know what you're saying now... at least partly. Correct me if I'm wrong, You're talking about how every person has their own perspective on any of life's issues. There's 7 billion people on earth and no 2 people will see everything exactly the same. One could say there are 7 billion different perspectives, each one containing different opinions and every one of them thinks they are the right one.. I'm taking what you said a couple steps further I think, so forgive me if I'm taking it in a totally different direction then you meant..

So I know that I have opinions and perspectives on things and I understand that all my opinions, world views, and judgments are not necessarily true but I understand that I think and feel like they are true... I mean if I believed that my opinions were not true then I would change them to match what I thought was true.

In Proverbs it says "every man is right in his own eyes" I think that is part of what you're saying yes?

The moon is made out of cheese example though, is a case of deception isn't it? The moon, after all, is not made of cheese no matter how one comes to that conclusion. If one has come to that conclusion then that person has deceived himself isn't that true? It may not be our job to convince him but the fact remains that the moon is not made out of cheese.

Two plus two equals 4. That's a truth. If someone has come to the conclusion that two plus two equals three, then that person is deceived aren't they? Even if the whole world agreed with him. All 7 billion people saying two plus two equals three doesn't make it true. Truth isn't open to variation depending on perspective... or is it in some cases?

My point (I do have a point... I think) is this.. How absolute do you guys a bt want people to be in their "come out of her my people"? Or by what standard are you judging?

I personally know that I have come out of her years before I read anything on this site. I don't need anyone's approval or affirmation that I have or have not, BUT its a good conversation because I have been judged on here in different ways because of my feelings, or non-feelings rather, towards church. Things have been said such as "Church is kindergarden and maybe youll be ready to leave someday" or something close to that... A few times people have made comments such as "when the Lord calls you out" and stuff like that... Its clear that some of the people here think that I'm deceived and blind and still part of Babylon the Great. And that's totally ok it doesn't bother me a bit... Its like Paul said, "I care very little to be judged by you or any human standard and in fact I don't even judge myself! I have One judge and my conscience is clean.. But that doesn't make mean I'm totally right" This is my paraphrase of course..

 Ok so if someone has accepted all the teachings on this site and they stop going to church does that mean they've come out of her? What about the fact that this person maybe has a government job? Pays taxes that fund war? Votes? I mean we all pray for His will to be done on earth as it is in heaven but with our actions we perpetuate things being done on earth as they are on earth. My point is that we cant physically stop our hypocrisy. None of us. We can only spiritually discern our hypocrisy and spiritually be successful in coming out of her... hence I don't see an issue with the physical act of being in the same building where people are blaspheming the Lords name... this could be a church service, or a 4th of July party, or just going to work every day couldn't it?

 I know some will make a distinction between church blaspheming Gods name and the normal day to day world blaspheming His name by saying, as Ray did, "But the church teaches blasphemy and they know it!" I don't necessarily agree with that... I think its like Dave said in his reply, these people actually believe the moon is made of cheese and trying to convince them otherwise just makes them dig there heels in deeper. I don't believe that these pastors are consciously coming up with ways that they can keep deceiving the flock... they really do believe that what they teach is the truth. But regardless of their good intentions... the moon is not made of cheese and they are deceived.

 
Logged
I’m just what you made God.. ~Kid Cudi

Abednego

  • Guest
Re: Attending Church
« Reply #55 on: August 24, 2014, 09:40:42 AM »

Could be, Largeli.  But there is a VERY practical problem with that observation:  One man's 'worldly deception' is another man's 'reasonable conclusion'.  I see it everywhere, and trust me, we'd see it here too if we let it.


Dave I'm not sure I understand, could you give an example? If you don't want to reply here could you pm me?

Largeli, we do see it here.  You just need to read all the words. That being said, I can't imagine what is being kept from us.

And no, I won't point anything out, because we're all at a different level of growth.

**Edit***

Actually, I can think of a non volatile example.  Look at any locked topic on voting.
« Last Edit: August 24, 2014, 09:48:16 AM by Abednego »
Logged

John from Kentucky

  • Bible-Truths Forum Member
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 903
Re: Attending Church
« Reply #56 on: August 24, 2014, 08:23:56 PM »

Ask an accountant what 2 + 2 is, and he'll say 4.

Ask a theoretical mathematician what 2 + 2 is, and he'll say approximately 4.

Ask a lawyer what 2 + 2 is, and he'll say, "What do you want it to be?"   ;D



Jesus said His kingdom is not of this world.  Those who have His Spirit, do what Jesus would do at this time.  We pay our taxes because He told us to, we render to Caesar what is Caesar's.

We do not fight or involve ourselves in wars because He said those who take the sword will die by the sword.

We do not vote or involve ourselves in politics because we already have a King Who has our sole allegiance.

And of course, we have nothing to do with false religion, which deceives just about all on the earth except for a small, small few.  We cannot abide spiritual idiocy.

That's just the way it is.  No compromise with those opposed to the Great King.  We take no prisoners.  The King Himself will restore all things at the appointed times.
Logged

Dave in Tenn

  • Bible-Truths Forum Member
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4311
    • FaceBook David Sanderson
Re: Attending Church
« Reply #57 on: August 24, 2014, 09:32:30 PM »

Largeli, it only matters a little bit what 'standards' BT forum applies.  Our 'standards' are in the rules.

Jesus said, 'Be ye perfect, even as your Father is heaven is perfect.'  We're not yet. 

One of the happiest verses in all scripture to me is, "There is ONE LORD, ONE FAITH, ONE BAPTISM."  He is Judge, and all His judgments are RIGHT, because He knows the motives of our hearts.  Every individual stands to give account, and every 'work' will be judged, whether good or bad.

"Stopping going to church" may not be the highest 'good work'.  Lots of people 'stop going to church' and go full-bore into worldliness.  I was one of them.  My understanding is, that Ray was too.  His people are commanded to come out of her, lest we partake of her plagues.  The "plague" I was partaking in was, above all others, hypocrisy, though there were many others.  AT THE VERY LEAST, when I left I stopped being a hypocrite.  I didn't stop being a sinner, but I stopped 'justifying' it and lying to God and to myself.  I stopped trying to save myself..  It was very ugly for a long time.

Oddly, Scripture says, "If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness."  I am learning more and more each day that this scripture is TRUE.  It actually works...and that faith also helps me not to partake in the plagues of 'theologizing' the truth, and turning the scripture into dry doctrine.

"Coming out of her" also works.  Perhaps not completely immediately, quickly and certainly not painlessly, but it works.

"Where two or more are gathered together in His name, there will He be in their midst."  That one is for Robby again.  You and your dear wife make TWO.

   
« Last Edit: August 24, 2014, 10:06:19 PM by Dave in Tenn »
Logged
Heb 10:32  But you must continue to remember those earlier days, how after you were enlightened you endured a hard and painful struggle.

lareli

  • Bible-Truths Forum Member
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 786
Re: Attending Church
« Reply #58 on: August 27, 2014, 05:35:50 PM »

Dave I have a question about the 'her' in 'come out of her my people'. Like I said in earlier posts, I agree that it refers to the church to a degree but also refers to the world and worldliness.. In rev 18 after it says 'come out of her' it goes on to describe 'her' plagues. I may be interpreting the rest of rev 18 incorrectly but it describes 'her' after the plagues have come upon her and it says that all the rest of the nations watch the smoke from the fire from afar and it says that they mourn over 'her'. It says the kings and nations mourn 'her' plagues because 'she' used to buy all their stuff and made them rich. It talks about all the goods that she bought which would come by way of ships etc. basically every sailor and ship that got rich from 'her' buying all their merchandise is now going to suffer as a result of 'her' not being in the rich and powerful position that 'she' held before the plagues.

When I read this it sounds like it's describing a nation.. What is the correct way to interpret the versus that describe the plagues as pertaining to the church and not a nation?
Logged
I’m just what you made God.. ~Kid Cudi

Dave in Tenn

  • Bible-Truths Forum Member
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4311
    • FaceBook David Sanderson
Re: Attending Church
« Reply #59 on: August 27, 2014, 08:16:09 PM »

The 'nations' of Christendom conducted the Crusades.  The 'nations' of Christendom used the wealth, philosophy, "wisdom" of babylon to build and sustain their power.  Empires were built and destroyed on her back.  Even today, in this more secular age, the 'god' of the Church is the 'god' of the world...even to atheists!  The world knows nothing of the Most High except what the church has said, and taught, and demonstrated. 

The world-wide religious establishment is in the world, of the world, informs the world, condemns the world, excuses the world.  Every person with every point of view "quotes" the bible to make their point.  Babylon the great will fall and the world won't know what to do with itself.
Logged
Heb 10:32  But you must continue to remember those earlier days, how after you were enlightened you endured a hard and painful struggle.
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5 6   Go Up
 

Page created in 0.046 seconds with 19 queries.