bible-truths.com/forums

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

Need Account Help?  Email bibletruths.forum@gmail.com   

Forgotten password reminders does not work. Contact the email above and state what you want your password changed to. (it must be at least 8 characters)

Pages: 1 2 3 4 [5] 6   Go Down

Author Topic: Attending Church  (Read 43552 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Nathan

  • Guest
Re: Attending Church
« Reply #80 on: October 12, 2014, 02:58:45 PM »

Quote
    1st Peter 4:16 Yet if any man suffer as a Christian, let him not be ashamed; but let him glorify God on this behalf.

Joel

 1 Peter 4:16, "Yet if any man suffer as a Christian, let him not be ashamed; but let him glorify God on this behalf."

Peter did not label the followers of Christ a "Christian" in the passage. Read it again, very carefully. He said they were to be "as a Christian." The word as means "like or similar to," but it does not mean one is that word. For example:

    Genesis 49:9, "...he couched as a lion," does not mean Judah was a lion when he couched!

    Exodus 15:5, "...they sank into the bottom as a stone," does not mean they were a stone when they sank.

    Matthew 17:20, "...If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed," does not mean faith is a mustard seed.

    And, therefore:

    1 Peter 4:16, "Yet if any man suffer as a Christian," does not mean man is a Christian when they suffer.

When someone is "as" something else, it does not mean one is that something. It means we are similar, in some way, to that name, but we are not literally that name. The heathens are the ones who called the followers of Christ "Christians" (Acts 11:26; 26:28). When Peter was referring to the title "Christian, " it is in the context of suffering, and is in reference to the name as imposed upon them by their enemies.

Christ himself never called His disciples Christians - Never. In the Revelation of Jesus Christ, He never refers to the saints, elect, etc as Christians. The word "Christian" is only used 3 times in Scripture - twice by pagans and the above passage. If members of this forum want to use this term to describe themselves then so be it, but it is a term passed down through the traditions of men and is not supported by Scripture.

Logged

indianabob

  • Bible-Truths Forum Member
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2144
Re: Attending Church
« Reply #81 on: October 12, 2014, 03:57:36 PM »

True JFK, Jesus is much more and that is key to our future.
However, is it also key to our future to understand that "since Jesus is a man anointed of God" that we too may in future be anointed of God and stand with Jesus, commune with Jesus because we shall be like him and see him as he IS.

Paul's references to the "man Jesus" are important to reflect upon as we strive to understand more deeply how these things can be, that is our future life as God's sons.

1Ti 2:5  For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

Rom 5:15  But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.

1Co 15:21  For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
1Co 15:22  For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

1Co 15:40  There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.
1Co 15:41  There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.
1Co 15:42  So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
1Co 15:43  It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
1Co 15:44  It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
1Co 15:45  And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
1Co 15:46  Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
1Co 15:47  The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.

1Co 15:48  As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.
1Co 15:49  And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

1Co 15:50  Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
1Co 15:51  Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
1Co 15:52  In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
1Co 15:53  For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
= = =

So then is it not important to recognize that God shall raise us to the same state that Lord Jesus now occupies? That of true sons of the ONE God...

Subject to correction; Indiana Bob





Followers of ho christos = Greek for "the anointed one"
Hebrew = ha mashiyach or "the anointed one"
So then we are followers of the man Jesus, the anointed one of God.

There is lots more to read if one is interested.
Indiana Bob


He is much more than a man, I-Bob, regardless of the teachings of the Concordant Publishing Concern.

looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ.  Titus 2:13

For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and His name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.  Isaiah 9:6 

Underlines are mine.
Logged

lareli

  • Bible-Truths Forum Member
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 786
Re: Attending Church
« Reply #82 on: October 16, 2014, 12:56:01 PM »

So if the Gestapo are rounding up "Christians" to haul off to FEMA camps and they go door to door in your neighborhood asking people if they're Christians I guess y'all have nothing to worry about huh.. Convenient.
Logged
I知 just what you made God.. ~Kid Cudi

indianabob

  • Bible-Truths Forum Member
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2144
Re: Attending Church
« Reply #83 on: October 16, 2014, 02:26:20 PM »

We're not proselytizing, just witnessing by our conduct.
"Be wise as a serpent and harmless as a dove."

What ever happens to be our fate is in God's hands.
However there are some guidelines for sharing our faith...

Mat 10:5  These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:
Mat 10:6  But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
Mat 10:7  And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand.
Mat 10:8  Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give.
Mat 10:9  Provide neither gold, nor silver, nor brass in your purses,
Mat 10:10  Nor scrip for your journey, neither two coats, neither shoes, nor yet staves: for the workman is worthy of his meat.
Mat 10:11  And into whatsoever city or town ye shall enter, enquire who in it is worthy; and there abide till ye go thence.
Mat 10:12  And when ye come into an house, salute it.
Mat 10:13  And if the house be worthy, let your peace come upon it: but if it be not worthy, let your peace return to you.
Mat 10:14  And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet.
Mat 10:15  Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.
Mat 10:16  Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves.

Mat 10:17  But beware of men: for they will deliver you up to the councils, and they will scourge you in their synagogues;
Mat 10:18  And ye shall be brought before governors and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them and the Gentiles.
Mat 10:19  But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak.
Mat 10:20  For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.
= = =
This is the attitude that I recommend. Indiana Bob
Logged

lareli

  • Bible-Truths Forum Member
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 786
Re: Attending Church
« Reply #84 on: October 16, 2014, 04:12:04 PM »

Hi bob

I don't know if your last post was in response to my post but if it was then I think you misunderstood my comments. Or maybe I am misunderstanding yours.

I was not referring to proselytizing. I was responding to posts by JFK and Nathan which give very impressive, clever and convenient human arguments for why they're not "Christians".

I was noting the fact that the human reasoning behind they're arguments would allow them to claim that they're not "Christians" in the event of a "Christian" holocaust.

Logged
I知 just what you made God.. ~Kid Cudi

John from Kentucky

  • Bible-Truths Forum Member
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 903
Re: Attending Church
« Reply #85 on: October 16, 2014, 07:11:45 PM »

Hi bob

I don't know if your last post was in response to my post but if it was then I think you misunderstood my comments. Or maybe I am misunderstanding yours.

I was not referring to proselytizing. I was responding to posts by JFK and Nathan which give very impressive, clever and convenient human arguments for why they're not "Christians".

I was noting the fact that the human reasoning behind they're arguments would allow them to claim that they're not "Christians" in the event of a "Christian" holocaust.


Unlike some people (who out of politeness I won't name) I can provide two scriptures (witnesses) for all my beliefs.

The two Scriptures below came from Ray's "Lake of Fire" group of articles, which would be a good thing for some to read.

In Revelations 1:13, Jesus just walks among the seven lamp stands, the church.  He does not rule this church or live with them.

On the other hand, in Revelations 2:13, we find that Satan not only dwells in the church, but his throne is there, he rules the church.

I am not a Christian because I am not a member of the church ruled by Satan.

Also, Jesus said that the many would be deceived.  Jesus said His true Church would be only a very few in this age.

So, that is why I am not a Christian, very simple.  Also, I do not fear a holocaust, or disease epidemic, or falling sycamore tree ( ;D ) or numerous other things that the simple minded fear.

Jesus is my shield and protector.  I fear nothing.  He that is for me is greater than anything against me.
« Last Edit: October 16, 2014, 07:16:22 PM by John from Kentucky »
Logged

indianabob

  • Bible-Truths Forum Member
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2144
Re: Attending Church
« Reply #86 on: October 16, 2014, 07:48:21 PM »

Hi Largeli,

Maybe there is a miscommunication of sorts. Let me try to open up my thoughts a little.

When Hitler went after the Jews of Germany they were easy targets to identify and could not even flee the coming threat if they were aware of it.

Christians of Europe and America who attend church and wear silver crosses and keep religious tracts in their homes are in a similar situation. They are marked, so to speak, for their outward religious affiliations and invitation to the public at large to become members.

We on the other hand are not marked by our public efforts to seek new members and financial support for our cause and are therefore not noticed as a threat to those who hate God.

I do not believe that God expects the called out and elect believers to form a denomination and publicly demonstrate against secular sins or government interference in this day and age the way many christian church groups do.

If there were a government sponsored search for true believers in this nation how would they find the thousands of true believers who study and read informative web sites like this one and choose to mind their own business by living as an example among their neighbors and working diligently to obey God in their own personal lives.

They are growing in grace and knowledge and that is enough. Their "work" is for God to do a work in them, which is happening in their daily lives.

I suppose that my basic premise is that God does not need for us to expose and teach our sincere beliefs to others for their approval and acceptance so much as God desires for us to recognize how much we need God in our lives and to seek to live for God and submit to God in our daily lives.

God can call others to see and believe when God is ready for them to respond. God can open their minds in an instant.

In a manner of speaking then we are in training for a future work of God in the world and not expected to begin that work before we are fully prepared in this life.

If we are chosen; then it may be chosen to learn as diligent students among ourselves and not to graduate to become teachers before we are fully prepared.

Not to "excessively" advertise our sacred knowledge and beliefs in order to encourage other to join with us, but rather to keep or hold these pearls of understanding with care and love and not to cast them before swine to be trampled under foot.

"Do not give what is holy to dogs, and do not throw pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you to pieces." (Matthew 7:6).

So then, I'm not hiding from the general public the pearls I've been given out of fear of persecution, not entirely anyway, but I'm also not seeking martyrdom either.

Hope this will add light and some understanding to my previous comments.
Indiana Bob
Logged

Nathan

  • Guest
Re: Attending Church
« Reply #87 on: October 16, 2014, 11:05:10 PM »

Quote
I don't know if your last post was in response to my post but if it was then I think you misunderstood my comments. Or maybe I am misunderstanding yours.

I was not referring to proselytizing. I was responding to posts by JFK and Nathan which give very impressive, clever and convenient human arguments for why they're not "Christians".

I was noting the fact that the human reasoning behind they're arguments would allow them to claim that they're not "Christians" in the event of a "Christian" holocaust.

Give two witnesses as to why you call yourself a Christian.

I'm going through the fire now - I could care less about physically dying or being rounded up in a FEMA camp. It's strange that you think that because I don't refer to myself as a "Christian" that I'm doing so to avoid a potential "Christian holocaust". Your fear is palpable.

Logged

microlink

  • Guest
Re: Attending Church
« Reply #88 on: October 17, 2014, 01:05:49 AM »

Quote
I don't know if your last post was in response to my post but if it was then I think you misunderstood my comments. Or maybe I am misunderstanding yours.

I was not referring to proselytizing. I was responding to posts by JFK and Nathan which give very impressive, clever and convenient human arguments for why they're not "Christians".

I was noting the fact that the human reasoning behind they're arguments would allow them to claim that they're not "Christians" in the event of a "Christian" holocaust.

Give two witnesses as to why you call yourself a Christian.

I'm going through the fire now - I could care less about physically dying or being rounded up in a FEMA camp. It's strange that you think that because I don't refer to myself as a "Christian" that I'm doing so to avoid a potential "Christian holocaust". Your fear is palpable.

I live in Christ and Christ lives in me.

Joh_6:56  He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him.

I obey Christ. If I live in Kentucky I obey its laws.

If I live in Kentucky, I am a Kentuckian.

If I live in Christ I am a Christian. No more comments from me on this thread.




Logged

lareli

  • Bible-Truths Forum Member
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 786
Re: Attending Church
« Reply #89 on: October 17, 2014, 11:49:06 AM »

A Christian is someone who's god is Christ. A Christian is someone who is of Christ. A Christian is one who follows the teachings of Christ.

You guys are very fond of the term The Great False Church, which by the way, is not found in scripture. Ok so if there's a Great False Church then its members are false Christians. Just like a wolf in sheep's clothing is a false sheep. But the real sheep are still sheep. They don't go around claiming that they are no longer sheep just because the wolves have hi-jacked their name and identity. Just like the real Christians (those who are of Christ) are still Christians.





Logged
I知 just what you made God.. ~Kid Cudi

lareli

  • Bible-Truths Forum Member
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 786
Re: Attending Church
« Reply #90 on: October 17, 2014, 11:57:39 AM »

Hi bob

I don't know if your last post was in response to my post but if it was then I think you misunderstood my comments. Or maybe I am misunderstanding yours.

I was not referring to proselytizing. I was responding to posts by JFK and Nathan which give very impressive, clever and convenient human arguments for why they're not "Christians".

I was noting the fact that the human reasoning behind they're arguments would allow them to claim that they're not "Christians" in the event of a "Christian" holocaust.


Unlike some people (who out of politeness I won't name) I can provide two scriptures (witnesses) for all my beliefs.

The two Scriptures below came from Ray's "Lake of Fire" group of articles, which would be a good thing for some to read.

In Revelations 1:13, Jesus just walks among the seven lamp stands, the church.  He does not rule this church or live with them.

On the other hand, in Revelations 2:13, we find that Satan not only dwells in the church, but his throne is there, he rules the church.

I am not a Christian because I am not a member of the church ruled by Satan.

Also, Jesus said that the many would be deceived.  Jesus said His true Church would be only a very few in this age.

So, that is why I am not a Christian, very simple.  Also, I do not fear a holocaust, or disease epidemic, or falling sycamore tree ( ;D ) or numerous other things that the simple minded fear.

Jesus is my shield and protector.  I fear nothing.  He that is for me is greater than anything against me.

Well... I am simple minded, you'll get no argument from me on that. I am a loser for sure. I wont deny any of that.
Logged
I知 just what you made God.. ~Kid Cudi

lareli

  • Bible-Truths Forum Member
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 786
Re: Attending Church
« Reply #91 on: October 17, 2014, 02:01:10 PM »

Quote
I don't know if your last post was in response to my post but if it was then I think you misunderstood my comments. Or maybe I am misunderstanding yours.

I was not referring to proselytizing. I was responding to posts by JFK and Nathan which give very impressive, clever and convenient human arguments for why they're not "Christians".

I was noting the fact that the human reasoning behind they're arguments would allow them to claim that they're not "Christians" in the event of a "Christian" holocaust.

Give two witnesses as to why you call yourself a Christian.

I'm going through the fire now - I could care less about physically dying or being rounded up in a FEMA camp. It's strange that you think that because I don't refer to myself as a "Christian" that I'm doing so to avoid a potential "Christian holocaust". Your fear is palpable.

I never said that you were trying to avoid a potential Christian holocaust.... All I said was that avoiding a Christian holocaust is a convenience you can enjoy in the event that persecution comes to Christians. I applaud your human reasoning as being very clever and convenient.

Two witnesses? Don't have em. Just like I don't have two witnesses to support why I, as (see what I did there with the word 'as'?  ;)) someone who was born in America, refer to myself as an American.

My fear is palpable. Ok. If by fear you mean F.E.A.R Feeling Excited And Ready, then thank you very much.

Logged
I知 just what you made God.. ~Kid Cudi

lareli

  • Bible-Truths Forum Member
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 786
Re: Attending Church
« Reply #92 on: October 17, 2014, 03:52:00 PM »

Once again, if Jesus never called his own disciples "Christians" and the apostles never called each other "Christians", then why would anyone want to use a term that was coined by pagans to describe themselves?

Pagans coined the term to describe themselves? The pagans coined the term, not to describe themselves but to describe the disciples of Christ.. Per the two witnesses in Acts.

When a Muslim extremist goes through a town in Iraq asking people if they're Christians or not, he is asking whether or not Jesus Christ is the god you worship. That's all he cares about when he asks if you're a Christian. Whether you consider yourself a "called out, chosen, elect" follower of Christ who has nothing to do with worldly Christians or not doesn't matter. But again, you can answer "nope, not me" and avoid persecution. I'm not saying it's wrong Nathan just convenient. You have your reasoning and I don't agree but that doesn't make it wrong. I may be just a simple minded, blind and weak person who doesn't yet understand the deep truths that you do.. You and JFK have been at this for a lot longer then me I'm sure.




Logged
I知 just what you made God.. ~Kid Cudi

John from Kentucky

  • Bible-Truths Forum Member
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 903
Re: Attending Church
« Reply #93 on: October 17, 2014, 04:52:40 PM »

Here is a little something from Ray.

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,4320.0.html

His last sentence is the main reason a few of us here do not call ourselves "Christian".

For the few of you who would be interested, in the index of Ray's emails, there is an entire section on "Church", which may be instructive.
Logged

Nathan

  • Guest
Re: Attending Church
« Reply #94 on: October 17, 2014, 09:01:06 PM »

Quote
Pagans coined the term to describe themselves? The pagans coined the term, not to describe themselves but to describe the disciples of Christ.. Per the two witnesses in Acts.

When a Muslim extremist goes through a town in Iraq asking people if they're Christians or not, he is asking whether or not Jesus Christ is the god you worship. That's all he cares about when he asks if you're a Christian. Whether you consider yourself a "called out, chosen, elect" follower of Christ who has nothing to do with worldly Christians or not doesn't matter. But again, you can answer "nope, not me" and avoid persecution. I'm not saying it's wrong Nathan just convenient. You have your reasoning and I don't agree but that doesn't make it wrong. I may be just a simple minded, blind and weak person who doesn't yet understand the deep truths that you do.. You and JFK have been at this for a lot longer then me I'm sure.

The term was used by pagans as an insult. If you want to use that term to describe yourself, that's fine, but the point I was trying to make was the origin of the term "Christian" was coined by pagans as an insult. That point aside, I do not wish to affiliate myself with Christendom in any way, which is another reason I do not refer to myself as Christian. Regardless, what one calls themselves is irrelevant - all that matters is whether or not ones heart is circumcised, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God (Rom 2:29).

I suffer persecution NOW from many CHRISTIANS, especially those of my own family - my father and brother are both pastors and despise my beliefs. All those who live godly in Christ Jesus suffer persecution (2 Tim 3:12) NOW, yet you keep talking about persecution in future terms, as if to say when the day comes when Christians are persecuted in this country (ie rounded up and slaughtered) you will call yourself a Christian and face persecution even unto death.

I die daily NOW, I am persecuted NOW, I am going through the fire NOW and if and when the day comes that I must die physically at the hand of a persecutor, so be it. All is of God. Your thought process on this topic clearly shows that you are yet carnal - you view persecution only in physical terms, which, by the way, may never come in your/my lifetime, however ALL who live godly in Christ Jesus face persecution - mediate on that.

I don't celebrate Christmas either - am I doing that as well to avoid persecution? I can tell you that I never really faced any type of persecution until I stopped referring to myself as a Christian, stopped believing all of the doctrines of Christendom, stop supporting "Christian politics", stopped supporting "Christian warmongering", stopped hating Muslim and truly came "out of her" (Rev 18:4).



Logged

Dave in Tenn

  • Bible-Truths Forum Member
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4311
    • FaceBook David Sanderson
Re: Attending Church
« Reply #95 on: October 17, 2014, 11:05:24 PM »

In my vivid fantasy-life--if the sword were on my neck--I would pray for the guy, forgive him, because he can't do any different without the grace of God on him, love him in whatever ways were possible, preach good news to him, and rejoice that I had been counted worthy to suffer for His name's sake. 

Peter, however, walked and lived with Christ for 3 and 1/2 years, but denied Him at the end--even though that wasn't the end for Peter.  So I reckon if the time should come when a literal blade is on my neck, I'll do what the Lord said I would do.  Life is full of choices, and no situation is so narrow that there aren't other things to consider--the only people in the room may be me and him, but maybe not.  I've been told not to 'plan' on what to say if I'm dragged before the council.  It's best to 'plan' that what is in my heart overflows--because that's exactly what's going to happen anyway.

Nathan, your list will get you hated where I come from too.
« Last Edit: October 17, 2014, 11:12:34 PM by Dave in Tenn »
Logged
Heb 10:32  But you must continue to remember those earlier days, how after you were enlightened you endured a hard and painful struggle.

lilitalienboi16

  • Bible-Truths Forum Member
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1870
Re: Attending Church
« Reply #96 on: October 18, 2014, 02:41:29 AM »

I'm not really following this thread but I wanted to just chime in to what Dave said:

Exodus 4:12 "Now go; I will help you speak and will teach you what to say."

I've always loved this next verse and have never forgotten it.

Matthew 10:19-20 "But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak. For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you."

Luke 21:14-15 "Settle it therefore in your hearts, not to meditate before what ye shall answer: For I will give you a mouth and wisdom, which all your adversaries shall not be able to gainsay nor resist."

Luke 12:11-12 "And when they bring you unto the synagogues, and unto magistrates, and powers, take ye no thought how or what thing ye shall answer, or what ye shall say: For the Holy Ghost shall teach you in the same hour what ye ought to say."

Love it! :)


Logged
1 Cor 1:10 "Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment."

Ian 155

  • Guest
Re: Attending Church
« Reply #97 on: October 18, 2014, 03:27:38 AM »

A Christian is someone who's god is Christ. A Christian is someone who is of Christ. A Christian is one who follows the teachings of Christ.



I dont see anything wrong with this - and there are two witnesses ...
I suppose the difference would be those who Do what Jesus said to do and those who don't yet call themselves the same.

Who do You say I am ?
Logged

lareli

  • Bible-Truths Forum Member
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 786
Re: Attending Church
« Reply #98 on: October 18, 2014, 05:37:07 PM »

Quote
Pagans coined the term to describe themselves? The pagans coined the term, not to describe themselves but to describe the disciples of Christ.. Per the two witnesses in Acts.

When a Muslim extremist goes through a town in Iraq asking people if they're Christians or not, he is asking whether or not Jesus Christ is the god you worship. That's all he cares about when he asks if you're a Christian. Whether you consider yourself a "called out, chosen, elect" follower of Christ who has nothing to do with worldly Christians or not doesn't matter. But again, you can answer "nope, not me" and avoid persecution. I'm not saying it's wrong Nathan just convenient. You have your reasoning and I don't agree but that doesn't make it wrong. I may be just a simple minded, blind and weak person who doesn't yet understand the deep truths that you do.. You and JFK have been at this for a lot longer then me I'm sure.

The term was used by pagans as an insult. If you want to use that term to describe yourself, that's fine, but the point I was trying to make was the origin of the term "Christian" was coined by pagans as an insult. That point aside, I do not wish to affiliate myself with Christendom in any way, which is another reason I do not refer to myself as Christian. Regardless, what one calls themselves is irrelevant - all that matters is whether or not ones heart is circumcised, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God (Rom 2:29).

I suffer persecution NOW from many CHRISTIANS, especially those of my own family - my father and brother are both pastors and despise my beliefs. All those who live godly in Christ Jesus suffer persecution (2 Tim 3:12) NOW, yet you keep talking about persecution in future terms, as if to say when the day comes when Christians are persecuted in this country (ie rounded up and slaughtered) you will call yourself a Christian and face persecution even unto death.

I die daily NOW, I am persecuted NOW, I am going through the fire NOW and if and when the day comes that I must die physically at the hand of a persecutor, so be it. All is of God. Your thought process on this topic clearly shows that you are yet carnal - you view persecution only in physical terms, which, by the way, may never come in your/my lifetime, however ALL who live godly in Christ Jesus face persecution - mediate on that.

I don't celebrate Christmas either - am I doing that as well to avoid persecution? I can tell you that I never really faced any type of persecution until I stopped referring to myself as a Christian, stopped believing all of the doctrines of Christendom, stop supporting "Christian politics", stopped supporting "Christian warmongering", stopped hating Muslim and truly came "out of her" (Rev 18:4).

Nathan. Not that I care brother, I really don't. It honestly doesn't bother me at all, BUT I just want to point out that when you read posts that someone writes on a discussion board, you are getting a very teeny tiny glimpse into someone's thought process... Some people on here are very good at articulating their thoughts and others like myself are not so good.. I am simple minded and also wont deny that I am yet carnal as we all are including yourself. Perhaps I am a lot more carnal than yourself. Perhaps not. I wont be the judge of that though. So when you say things like, "Your thought process clearly shows.." or when you state something about me as fact, such as "you view persecution only in physical terms," You are bearing false witness about me... which, like I said, doesn't bother me a bit even if I know what you are saying is not true. I don't fault you nor blame you and in fact I'm pretty sure we all assume things about one another when reading comments on here, but when you state your assumptions as facts then its bearing false witness.

As far as you stating that I only view persecution in future terms and in the form of physical dying, well it is true that that is the example I am giving on this thread but it doesn't mean that I only view martyrdom as the only form of persecution. However, you don't know where I live do you? For all you know I could be typing this from Iraq or Syria where physical persecution isn't a fantasy but a daily reality. For the record though I am not typing this from the middle east.



Logged
I知 just what you made God.. ~Kid Cudi

Nathan

  • Guest
Re: Attending Church
« Reply #99 on: October 18, 2014, 10:47:18 PM »

Quote
Nathan. Not that I care brother, I really don't. It honestly doesn't bother me at all, BUT I just want to point out that when you read posts that someone writes on a discussion board, you are getting a very teeny tiny glimpse into someone's thought process... Some people on here are very good at articulating their thoughts and others like myself are not so good.. I am simple minded and also wont deny that I am yet carnal as we all are including yourself. Perhaps I am a lot more carnal than yourself. Perhaps not. I wont be the judge of that though. So when you say things like, "Your thought process clearly shows.." or when you state something about me as fact, such as "you view persecution only in physical terms," You are bearing false witness about me... which, like I said, doesn't bother me a bit even if I know what you are saying is not true. I don't fault you nor blame you and in fact I'm pretty sure we all assume things about one another when reading comments on here, but when you state your assumptions as facts then its bearing false witness.

As far as you stating that I only view persecution in future terms and in the form of physical dying, well it is true that that is the example I am giving on this thread but it doesn't mean that I only view martyrdom as the only form of persecution. However, you don't know where I live do you? For all you know I could be typing this from Iraq or Syria where physical persecution isn't a fantasy but a daily reality. For the record though I am not typing this from the middle east.

I realize that a forum/discussion board only gives a tiny glimpse into someone's thought process, but when you say that those who choose to not call themselves "Christians" are doing so to avoid physical persecution, that shows where your thought process is on this particular topic, otherwise you wouldn't have made that statement - that's not bearing false witness. Those that call themselves Christians are some of the biggest persecutors on the planet, but I would not go so far as to say that you are a persecutor because you call yourself a Christian.

So, when the day comes when men come knocking at my door asking me if I'm a Christian so they can take me to the executioner, I will say, by Christian do you mean, do I hate my enemies, do I believe that the vast majority of humanity will burn in a fiery hell for all eternity, do I believe that only a few who believe like me are saved after saying an 11 second prayer, do I believe that the physical state of Israel is the Israel of God, do I believe in a secret rapture where I get to avoid "the great tribulation", do I believe in a God who tells me to love my enemies while He hates His, do I believe in the Savior of the world who failed at His mission - is that what you mean by Christian? Then, NO, I'm not a Christian. --- at this point the men cry blasphemy, rend their garments and say "come with us"! "Who's us", I say - "we're Christians"!



Logged
Pages: 1 2 3 4 [5] 6   Go Up
 

Page created in 0.041 seconds with 22 queries.