Sister Kat,
Greetings!
The one thing I will commented on is the glory of God... where do you suppose He obtained that glory.
John 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was.
v. 6 "I have manifested Your name to the men whom You have given Me out of the world. They were Yours, You gave them to Me, and they have kept Your word.
v. 7 Now they have known that all things which You have given Me are from You.
In Verse 5, YHWH who is Jesus is sharing the glory with the Father, Jesus is speaking the glory which he had before meaning he is still the YHWH before and not Jesus the man. Clearly, it is not stated where he obtained that glory, it is just they are sharing the glory.
In verse 6, Jesus is manifesting the name of the Father to the men whom the Father had given him. Jesus as man claiming that these men were owned by the Father and it was given to him to the man Jesus. It is these men that out of the world was given to man Jesus by the Father and not the glory that he had before when he is still the YHWH.
In verse 7, Jesus is stating that all things that he had was from the Father. Father is giving all these things because Jesus is now a man. It is very clear that when he became man that Father is giving all these things to him. When He was still the YHWH he created all these things that is why it is of no use that the Father have to give these to him.
There are only two verses that I know why Jesus the man had to receive these things to his Father. First, it is when he was born by a virgin that he had a God. Second, when he had the flesh that he had a God. It is very clear that when he was still YHWH the God there’s no such incidence that all things were given to him because all things were created through him and by him. When he was became man he has no freewill but when he is YHWH he had.
Psalm 22. I was thrust into your arms at my birth. You have been my God from the moment I was born.
Jer 32:27Behold, I am the LORD, the God of all flesh: is there anything too hard for me?
And not only has Christ received great glory from the Father, but the elect will as well.
John 17:21 that they all may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I in You; that they also may be one in Us, that the world may believe that You sent Me.
v. 22 And the glory which You gave Me I have given them, that they may be one just as We are one:
v. 23 I in them, and You in Me; that they may be made perfect in one, and that the world may know that You have sent Me, and have loved them as You have loved Me.
Again, Jesus is now a man. YHWH emptied himself to become Jesus as a man. Jesus had to receive the glory from his Father. When he was still God as YHWH he did not received it from anybody, the glory was shared between Father and Son. When YHWH became a man he doesn’t have freewill. All that he does is the will of the Father. The Father did not give the glory to the elect directly it is always through Jesus. It is Jesus who is giving the glory to men.
So if this glory makes the Father and Son indistinguishable, will the elect be indistinguishable from the Father as well? Of course not.
John 17:24 "Father, I desire that they also whom You gave Me may be with Me where I am, that they may behold My glory which You have given Me; for You loved Me before the foundation of the world.
v. 25 O righteous Father! The world has not known You, but I have known You; and these have known that You sent Me.
v. 26 And I have declared to them Your name, and will declare it, that the love with which You loved Me may be in them, and I in them."
The glory that Jesus had when he was still the YHWH is indistinguishable with the Father but the elect to the Father cannot be. How come the Glory of the Father be the same with the elect! Unbelievable!
I have questioned myself many times about continuing this discussion, but now I do it only for others that may be helped by the Scriptures brought forth.
If you are living in the truth you have to bring the truth. It doesn’t matter whether you are correct and I am wrong or I am correct and you are wrong, what matter is we bring the truth. What benefits us if we hide the truth, better to show the truth, better that we try to give the truth than voluntarily hiding the truth.
When you are asking and pleading the Father to give you bread of Life will our Father give you snake of Lies?
mercy, peace and love
Kat
@ theophilus,
Greetings!
I think the answer to your post is on top of my post. The Son who is speaking is now Jesus the man. This Jesus had no freewill but when he was still YHWH he had a freewill. YHWH the only God the only Savior the Almighty God emptied himself to become Jesus. When This YHWH becomes Jesus and this Jesus had the flesh and became a man that is the time that he had God.