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John from Kentucky:

--- Quote from: indianabob on August 11, 2014, 09:09:06 AM ---Friend John,

I have often wondered how we should define (for our own understanding) the difference if any between what "believers" understood and what a believer was/is during the time that Jesus and the 12 apostles were teaching about Messiah. Prior to the Resurrection and ascension of the Lord Jesus.

Isn't it true that Jews and others such as the Eunuch of Queen of Sheba had only to believe that Jesus was the promised Messiah? (Acts 8:27)
Where do we find (before Saul's conversion) the twelve teaching that salvation was by faith alone without "prior" obedience to the commandments?

If some of those who became believers before Paul convinced Peter and James that gentiles could be believers apart from the "law", then died before hearing any other explanation of the "gospel", were they saved as we understand salvation?

I've meditated on this a lot and haven't found much to consider...
So I'm likely to want to debate for a while until the truth sinks in. Please be patient.

Any help would be appreciated

Indiana Bob




--- Quote from: John from Kentucky on August 05, 2014, 12:11:20 PM ---Flee the teachings of the Concordant Publishing Concern.

While they understand the salvation of all, they have several really false teachings.

I think the worse is their belief in two salvations and two of many things.  One for Jews, one for Gentiles.  The gospel of Jesus and Peter being different from the gospel of Paul.  Two different rewards.

And yet the Scriptures teach a basic unity--one hope, one faith, one baptism.

If you are not grounded in the Scriptures and the Spirit of God, you can be easily deceived by their teachings.

But, what will be, will be.

--- End quote ---

--- End quote ---


Hi I-Bob,

I have no desire to debate.  Just about everything you stated in your post is incorrect.

I have attached a statement from Ray, which explains the errors of the Concordant Publishing people.  Please read it with emphasis on the Scriptures he quoted.  Grace and truth came by Jesus.  It's all about Jesus, not Peter or Paul.

http://bible-truths.com/email13.htm#zender


John

Kat:

Hi Bob,

I try to think of where the Apostles were coming from to better understand their teachings. What I mean is a lot of the NT Scripture is directed towards the Jews, because that was who they 'first' went to and that is why you here so much about the law.

Also at that time they were teaching something 'new,' that indeed the Messiah had come and was crucified and raised from the dead. This was a profound new truth that they were trying to get out to the world at that time. Now the gospel of Christ has been spread and heard by most in the world (I say most only because of the possibility of some few may have not heard). But the Apostles were at that time just trying to get people to understand and believe that indeed Christ had come and had raised up from the dead, as proof of who He was.

Rom 10:9  that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.

At that time believing was the first step necessary, but this was just the beginning for any of the true elect. Now sure there could be those who said they believe that were not an elect at all, it is also necessary "to believe in your heart," I think that only comes with the Holy Spirit indwelling... think about the parable of the sower and the seed.

Now do not think that anybody can just die before God has a chance to finish fully preparing that one for the first resurrection. Understand that God is not in some kind of race to prepare a person before they die... He is in control of these things to start with and calls a person exactly when He has made them ready to accept the truth and then really has no time limit to finish what He has started in them.

Php 1:6  being confident of this very thing, that He who has begun a good work in you will complete it until the day of Jesus Christ;

Basically God does use a teacher, as in that Scripture about the Eunuch you mentioned, to bring somebody to these teaching, as we all had Ray for that. But not only does the Holy Spirit open your eyes to understand the truth, but I do not believe that a teacher is absolutely required for the rest of that believer's life. Indeed it is the Spirit in us that can and does show us the truth by any means that God desires.

John 14:26  But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you.

But I certainly believe there is the necessity for all believers to go through a process of living and preparation and to not only believe that Christ is the Savior, but also come to 'know' Christ.

John 10:27  My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me.

That following Christ is the process needed in every believer to produce fruit, through learning and living by righteousness.

Mat 7:20  Therefore by their fruits you will know them.
v. 21  "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.

1John 5:18  We know that whoever is born (begotten) of God does not sin; but he who has been born of God keeps himself, and the wicked one does not touch him.
v. 19  We know that we are of God, and the whole world lies under the sway of the wicked one.
v. 20  And we know that the Son of God has come and has given us an understanding, that we may know Him who is true; and we are in Him who is true, in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and eternal life.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

indianabob:
Thanks John and Kat,
I will study your suggested reading and pray for understanding.
Thanks for bringing this to my attention.

Indiana Bob

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