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Ian 155:
--- Quote from: Dave in Tenn on November 02, 2014, 08:24:32 PM ---A side note on the scripture John 6:63.
Rays Replies to 'Flesh that profits nothing?'
on: March 17, 2006, 09:51:28 AM
And so what Jesus is clearly stating here is that the FLESH (or any of the other things mentioned above including Christ Himself), are not in and by themselves a BENEFIT (profit) to us until others facts PRODUCE those BENEFITS.
--- End quote ---
That is a pretty bold statement,if I read it according to my understanding of the word,seeing we are complete..... only in him.
(Or is he saying we have need of that (death/flesh)experience,in order to obtain kingdom mentality)
Carnality is absolutely and unequivocally, Death (NO PROFIT) or do you think he is saying death, leads to profit, and is the only factor?
What other factors are needed?
Kat:
Hi Ian,
Well think about the church, they have Christ, so to speak, but what profit/benefit does that produce for them? Notice the last comment from Ray there... "Babylon is about as fleshly and worldly as anything could ever be, and Babylon BENEFITS NOTHING, so "Come OUT OF HER My people...."The BENEFITS are IN CHRIST, OUT OF Babylon, out of the flesh and the world."
I put in bold and underlined what the benefit of this life is ultimately producing, being "IN Christ." And this next comment from Ray explains why... "There is no PROFIT/BENEFIT in the flesh itself, only what comes OUT OF IT. And once you are OUT OF IT (as out of the world), the world is of NO profit/benefit to you."
The church is worldly and they know 'of' Christ, but are not 'in' Him, the rest of the world have not even reached that far. So I think the "other facts PRODUCE those BENEFITS" that Ray mentioned would be when the Holy Spirit becomes indwelling and then the spiritual lessons begin for a person, not before from these life experiences. I think then we can even reflect on past life experiences and learn from them too.
mercy, peace and love
Kat
Dave in Tenn:
Ray is simply in simple language explaining the meaning of this verse and this word "profit" (and by extension, what it doesn't mean). No gobbledegook.
Ian 155:
There is a spanner in the works here,either the flesh profits Nothing, or it profits, I cant kinda make up my own explanation, there are no "grey areas"
I notice an unregenerate David, found benefits (in the Lord) psalm 103:2 so perhaps the transition process from the Flesh is in fact a Benefit.Yet his(Davids) then state,is, of no profit yet, he sees profit.
The Physical body (no profit) becomes a spiritual temple (profit)
Im not being difficult ,
Ian
rick:
Hello Ian,
we start off carnal and die carnal don’t we, does anyone get converted in this age? When we see Christ as He is then we shall be like Him.
Rom 11:32 For God has made all people prisoners of disobedience, so that he might show mercy to them all.
Rom 7:15 I do not understand what I do; for I don't do what I would like to do, but instead I do what I hate.
Rom 7:19 I don't do the good I want to do; instead, I do the evil that I do not want to do.
Rom 12:2 Do not conform yourselves to the standards of this world, but let God transform you inwardly by a complete change of your mind. Then you will be able to know the will of God---what is good and is pleasing to him and is perfect.
Rom, 12;2 says for us not to be conformed to this world, then it says, but let God transform us inwardly by a complete change of our mind.
Is it not a ongoing process of becoming spiritual and its completion is after the resurrection for God’s elect only then the rest of humanity will learn righteousness?
My question is when one of God’s elect dies doesn’t he or she still have carnality residing within them ? So, what does God do at the resurrection to make us completely spiritual?
What we do know about God’s elect is Rom 8:1 There is no condemnation now for those who live in union with Christ Jesus. ???
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