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Author Topic: Islam  (Read 12842 times)

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Dennis Vogel

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Islam
« on: October 16, 2014, 11:24:31 AM »

Ayaan Hirsi tells us what Islam is all about better than all the documentaries I've seen combined.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fe_cuzsmmHU

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indianabob

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Re: Islam
« Reply #1 on: October 16, 2014, 12:53:34 PM »

Very interesting Dennis,
Had a difficult time hearing some of the speech due to the higher pitch of her voice, but maybe if I could see a transcript it would help.
Very much appreciated how it applies to us (BT) with our philosophy of life rather than one of death or hereafter only.

Regards, Indiana Bob
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Dennis Vogel

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Re: Islam
« Reply #2 on: October 16, 2014, 12:57:50 PM »

Click on the "cc" icon Bob for closed captions.
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Dennis Vogel

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Re: Islam
« Reply #3 on: October 16, 2014, 01:02:25 PM »

She has a very interesting background: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ayaan_Hirsi_Ali

Somali-born but escaped to Germany then Holand.

"elected a member of the House of Representatives (the lower house of the Dutch parliament)"

"named by Time magazine as one of the 100 most influential people in the world."
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Ricky

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Re: Islam
« Reply #4 on: October 16, 2014, 01:24:23 PM »

What is Islam all about, its all about the very same method as Christian, Catholic, and all other religions are all about, LIES. My God has nothing to do with all that man made garbadge. Spirit and Truth is who He is and what He is. That's it. In my walk I have separated Him from Church's, and religion. I see Him better this way.  Ricky
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Dennis Vogel

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Re: Islam
« Reply #5 on: October 16, 2014, 06:30:51 PM »

Mat 24:42  Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

I do not think the scriptures ignore Islam. IMO, the book of Daniel could be talking about Islam.
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Ricky

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Re: Islam
« Reply #6 on: October 16, 2014, 07:14:18 PM »

Hi Dennis, I can see Matt.24,42 meaning the hour the Lord comes for you is the hour you die, you don't know when that will happen, so we don't know when He is coming, but the next thing you will know and see will be Jesus Christ. Death is like sleep. What happens when you fall asleep at night. Without dreaming you will immediately wake up 6-8-10 hours into the future, it is instance. If you were to die right now, you would immediately wake up, but it will be sometime in the future, maybe a 100 years later, but you will feel that it was that fast, Jesus comes like a thief in the night. His Resurrection comes at that time. I can see it being this way.   Ricky
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Dave in Tenn

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Re: Islam
« Reply #7 on: October 16, 2014, 08:09:15 PM »

Ricky, what you are saying is true, I believe--but not the whole truth.

1Co 15:51  Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
1Co 15:52  In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

We shall NOT all sleep.  BUT we shall ALL be changed--including those who do not 'sleep'.

Whether it is in 'rising' from 'sleep' in Resurrection or 'being changed' at His appearing in Glory. we shall ALL be changed...in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye.

Not only that, but we may well have a foretaste--a down-payment of His Spirit that makes this possible in our spirits and lives every day--several times a day, even. 

WHY?

1Co 15:53  For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
1Co 15:54  So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

This corruptible MUST put on incorruption and this mortal MUST put on immortality.  That's what is NEXT, and for everybody--each in his own turn.

 


 
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Heb 10:32  But you must continue to remember those earlier days, how after you were enlightened you endured a hard and painful struggle.

John9362

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Re: Islam
« Reply #8 on: October 16, 2014, 08:50:50 PM »

Go Ricky, about time someone taught Dennis a thing or two.....LOL !
I hope you are paying attention Dennis !  ;D ;)
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indianabob

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Re: Islam
« Reply #9 on: October 16, 2014, 11:58:12 PM »

Click on the "cc" icon Bob for closed captions.

Didn't think of that  ::)
Oh well, I was going to watch it again anyhow....
Thanks Dennis, much appreciated
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Ricky

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Re: Islam
« Reply #10 on: October 17, 2014, 12:17:35 AM »

Be careful those left and right shoulder angels are taking down notes for Mohammad.
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Ricky

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Re: Islam
« Reply #11 on: October 17, 2014, 01:35:10 AM »

Hello Dave, I find this interesting, gonna get something off my chest. What I say comes from me, I don't read anything other than B.T. On other topic I asked everyone here if anyone believes they are the elect. No one said anything about it, because no one knows. Not all shall sleep (die) I was not directing death and sleep at those people, because they are sometime in the future, 100 years maybe we don't know. It was directed at us because I dought we will be alive when this happens. DEAD in CHRIST,  What does In Christ mean? I believe there is only ONE way you can be Dead or Alive In Christ, You Must have the power from God to believe the Truth there can be no other way to be In Christ. So saying this would mean for us, if Ray is correct, we would be the only ones that are In Christ meaning we just might be the elect. So death to us would mean instantly caught up in the air with Christ.    Ricky
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lilitalienboi16

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Re: Islam
« Reply #12 on: October 17, 2014, 01:53:59 AM »

Hello Dave, I find this interesting, gonna get something off my chest. What I say comes from me, I don't read anything other than B.T. On other topic I asked everyone here if anyone believes they are the elect. No one said anything about it, because no one knows. Not all shall sleep (die) I was not directing death and sleep at those people, because they are sometime in the future, 100 years maybe we don't know. It was directed at us because I dought we will be alive when this happens. DEAD in CHRIST,  What does In Christ mean? I believe there is only ONE way you can be Dead or Alive In Christ, You Must have the power from God to believe the Truth there can be no other way to be In Christ. So saying this would mean for us, if Ray is correct, we would be the only ones that are In Christ meaning we just might be the elect. So death to us would mean instantly caught up in the air with Christ.    Ricky

Personally, I havn't watched the entire video so what I'm about to say is purely directed at what you said here ricky,

I don't think we can assume we are the elect, that is rather presumptuous of us. To my knowledge,, none of the apostles made this claim of themselves. I also don't think we are the only ones God has called and chosen in the world. There may be yet others out there who are chosen of God and striving to win the race but who are not participators in this forum here. Who can say with certainty? Only God knows the elect.

As to this topic:

I will watch the video before making any comments.

"A fool judges a matter before he hears the whole..."

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1 Cor 1:10 "Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment."

indianabob

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Re: Islam
« Reply #13 on: October 17, 2014, 03:40:40 AM »

[quote author=lilitalienboi16 link=topic=15881.msg142439#msg142439 \

Hi Lilitalienboi16,

Reference your message quoted in part below.

I do think that the apostle Paul considered himself one of the elect and taught the same to members who believed the gospel of Christ given to Paul.
I think we all realize that there have been called out and chosen believers in every generation for at least the past 2000 years since Jesus' ascension. Although as you say we don't have a full definition of who they are.

It really doesn't take a lot of bible knowledge to be a believer once the faith has been given. A person doesn't even have to be very literate or intellectually superior. It's the confusion brought about by the ones (some teachers) who do know it all that is so difficult to overcome; until God erases that error and that is a lifelong work for each of us.

 Error doesn't disqualify us from serving God and Jesus, as long as we receive strength from Jesus to continue to repent of our error when it is pointed out to us.

God calls mainly those who are small and insignificant to build them up the way God wants them to be. So I'm quite confident that there could be a million or so in any generation who don't even have access to the Internet. (smile) [I went to school when we still had books and teachers who dressed for work.] Still a very small percentage out of 7 billion...

With what I've been through in life and what I have learned and am experiencing now, I have the hope of continuing in my journey of faith and I am assured that when I fall down the Lord Jesus will kick me in my shins until I beg for the strength to get back up and continue on the path he has put me on. Jesus made it quite plain that NONE of his would be lost. Once Jesus finds the lost ones he doesn't let loose. You can bet your life on that.

WE can rest in the assurance that God want us to be His and God will finish His work in us.
Mark 9:24 "lord I believe, help me with my unbelief"




Quote:
I don't think we can assume we are the elect, that is rather presumptuous of us. To my knowledge,, none of the apostles made this claim of themselves. I also don't think we are the only ones God has called and chosen in the world. There may be yet others out there who are chosen of God and striving to win the race but who are not participators in this forum here. Who can say with certainty? Only God knows the elect.

As to this topic:

I will watch the video before making any comments.

"A fool judges a matter before he hears the whole..."
[/quote]
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Ricky

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Re: Islam
« Reply #14 on: October 17, 2014, 11:21:32 AM »

We cannot assume we are the e!ect, what I have stated points to the fact that we would have a better chance at being the elect than anybody inside church' or any religion they belong to, none of them know the truth. We are not the only ones God has chosen, we would be the only ones chosen during this time period. Back in Bible days did the people know what the word Elect means in the Bible? Something tells me that they did not have the same meanings and knowledge of the Bible that we have. Take a look at how difficult the Bible is for people today that have knowledge to understand any book out there, except the Bible. These people are Doctors, Judges, Lawyers, Presidents, Prime Ministers, Queens, Kings, and so on. People were not educated  back in Bible days. I think the Bible is the only book on the he planet that scares the hell out of everyone, this is why most of the world stays away from it. I believe we need to see God differently than the church or any religion does. I can back that up with a verse, Do not be comformed with the world! Do not do as they do, If we are the Elect I really think we need more hope of this. It would help us do better for Him.   Ricky
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Kat

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Re: Islam
« Reply #15 on: October 17, 2014, 01:17:10 PM »


Hi Ricky,

I think we do have Scripture that may very well point to the thought that we can know if God is doing His work of salvation in us. Jude certainly did not sound doubtful of himself or the believers he was speaking to.

Jude 1:1  Jude, a bondservant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, To those who are called, sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ:
v. 2  Mercy, peace, and love be multiplied to you.
v. 3  Beloved, while I was very diligent to write to you concerning our common salvation, I found it necessary to write to you exhorting you to contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all delivered to the saints.

Look how Peter spoke to the believers he was teaching.

1Peter 1:6  You greatly rejoice in this, even though you have to suffer various kinds of trial for a little while,
v. 7  so that your genuine faith, which is more valuable than gold that perishes when tested by fire, may result in praise, glory, and honor when Jesus, the Messiah, is revealed.
v. 8  Though you have not seen him, you love him. And even though you do not see him now, you believe in him and rejoice with an indescribable and glorious joy,
v. 9  because you are receiving the goal of your faith, the salvation of your souls.

Peter must have known them well enough to see the fruit of the Spirit in them and that is how you know if somebody is truly in Christ.

Mat 7:18  A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, and a rotten tree cannot produce good fruit.
v. 19  Every tree that doesn't produce good fruit will be cut down and thrown into a fire.
v. 20  So by their fruit you will know them."

Paul did show a belief that he was chosen, notice when speaking about salvation he says it's the reason he endured, so that believers "too" might receive it.

2Tim 2:8  Meditate on Jesus, the Messiah, who was raised from the dead and is a descendant of David. This is the gospel I tell others.
v. 9  Because of it I am experiencing trouble, even to the point of being chained like a criminal. However, God's word is not chained.
v. 10  For that reason, I endure everything for the sake of those who have been chosen so that they, too, may receive the salvation that is in the Messiah Jesus, along with eternal glory.
v. 11  This saying is trustworthy: In dying with the Messiah, true life we gain.

I'm not trying to say that somebody could know for sure and then they could rest easy having that knowledge... wouldn't you think if somebody truly were that the spirit would not let them ever rest easy? Somebody who is chosen would not be so cocky or arrogance. But I would certainly think the Holy Spirit indwelling a person should be noticeable.

But Jesus did speak of those who falsely believe they are chosen "tares" (Matt 13). In that parable Christ speaks of those who are right among the chosen and it is really hard to tell them apart, but you can know, "by their fruit you will know them." Look at the parable of the sower and the seed, few chosen come from those that actually believe the truth. Jesus also speaks in another parable quite plainly and says that these false believers (tares) actually go right to the end thinking they are chosen... here is where the false believer is actually revealed at the very actual wedding supper 'with' the elect.

Mat 22:11  "But when the king came in to see the guests, he saw a man there who did not have on a wedding garment.
v. 12  So he said to him, 'Friend, how did you come in here without a wedding garment?' And he was speechless.
v. 13  Then the king said to the servants, 'Bind him hand and foot, take him away, and cast him into outer darkness; there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.'
v. 14  "For many are called, but few are chosen."

So I believe there can be a certain degree of real hope as I do believe the Apostles did have that, but the fruit of the Spirit is what is the surety that one must have. So we certainly have to "watch" our self, but not this world.

Gal 5:22  But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
v. 23  gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law.
v. 24  And those who are Christ's have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.
v. 25  If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
v. 26  Let us not become conceited, provoking one another, envying one another.

mercy, peace and love
Kat
« Last Edit: October 17, 2014, 01:20:51 PM by Kat »
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lilitalienboi16

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Re: Islam
« Reply #16 on: October 17, 2014, 01:43:48 PM »

thank you kat, good post. would it be safe to say the apostles stopped short from outright saying they or others were the elect? because thats what i felt like i was reading from your post.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z29olPjFbqg

Ricky, i think this is what you wanted to hear  ;D ;D ;D ;) ;) ;D

Love,
Alex  8)

P.S. I love it!
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1 Cor 1:10 "Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment."

Ricky

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Re: Islam
« Reply #17 on: October 17, 2014, 02:09:04 PM »

The 12 people that Jesus chose to be Apostles did not have to guess if they were, they knew, we do not know Jesus is not here doing the same thing, we are going by faith, they went by sight Jesus was there. I don't see where the Apostles have anything to do with the elect. The Apostles could be the Elders for God much higher up than the e!ect.   Ricky
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lilitalienboi16

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Re: Islam
« Reply #18 on: October 17, 2014, 03:29:04 PM »

 
The 12 people that Jesus chose to be Apostles did not have to guess if they were, they knew, we do not know Jesus is not here doing the same thing, we are going by faith, they went by sight Jesus was there. I don't see where the Apostles have anything to do with the elect. The Apostles could be the Elders for God much higher up than the e!ect.   Ricky

 ??? ??? ??? ??? ???

Elders for God??  ???
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1 Cor 1:10 "Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment."

Ricky

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Re: Islam
« Reply #19 on: October 17, 2014, 05:36:53 PM »

Hm mm, Ricky is not the brightest bulb in the box, I had always thought there is going to be 12 Elders sitting with God on His throne at judgement time. These 12 would be the Apostles.
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