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[cheekie3]

All -

I was wondering that if the husband and father of a family knew the Truths of God and studied The Scriptures - and lived for and obeyed Jesus' Commandments - could his wife and children follow suit even though they themselves do not study The Scriptures.

Obviously there would be family discussions regarding the Truths of God.

I know we do not know who The Elect are until they are Resurrected in the First Resurrection.

George.

[Ricky]

Hi Cheekie3, this would be just my opinion,  Faith without works is dead. I think God would hold that husband and father accountable for not sharing with his family, the truth. The door would be wide open for Satan to drag his family off to church.  Ricky

[lareli]

Is is possible to be chosen of God without reading the scriptures?

Yes of course it is. Love your wife and kids. Share with them through your conduct and attitude. Pray for them. And don't worry. They're in Gods hands and they've already been chosen by Him to live in His kingdom when it's all said and done.

[Dennis Vogel]

Is is possible to be chosen of God without reading the scriptures?

Yes of course it is. Love your wife and kids. Share with them through your conduct and attitude. Pray for them. And don't worry. They're in Gods hands and they've already been chosen by Him to live in His kingdom when it's all said and done.

Wrong: There are the called and the chosen. First you have to be called and then chosen by God.

There is NOTHING you can do to be chosen. He chooses us. We have no choice in the matter.

He already determined who was chosen long before this world was formed over 4.5 billion years ago. It’s a done deal. But we don’t know.

[lilitalienboi16]

Is is possible to be chosen of God without reading the scriptures?

Yes of course it is. Love your wife and kids. Share with them through your conduct and attitude. Pray for them. And don't worry. They're in Gods hands and they've already been chosen by Him to live in His kingdom when it's all said and done.

Wrong: There are the called and the chosen. First you have to be called and then chosen by God.

There is NOTHING you can do to be chosen. He chooses us. We have no choice in the matter.

He already determined who was chosen long before this world was formed over 4.5 billion years ago. It’s a done deal. But we don’t know.

Agreed. Completely and totally in God's hands. I think the chosen will be inspired to study the scriptures. They will hunger and thirst to drawn nearer to the Lord and this fire will consume them. The spirit drives you to study the scriptures. I just don't see someone being chosen and having zero interest in the scriptures. It the testimony of God to us. Our Father and Lord Saviour Jesus Christ.

[rick]

Hello George,

It matters not the opinions of others. I want to see two scriptures to back up this claim otherwise it leads back to Babylon and all its false doctrine. 

[lilitalienboi16]

Hello George,

It matters not the opinions of others. I want to see two scriptures to back up this claim otherwise it leads back to Babylon and all its false doctrine. 

Acts 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

2 Timothy 3:16-17 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

2 Timothy 2:15 "Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth."

Psalm 119:105 "Your word is a lamp to my feet and a light to my path."

Proverbs 2:1-5  "My son, if you receive my words and treasure up my commandments with you, making your ear attentive to wisdom and inclining your heart to understanding; yes, if you call out for insight and raise your voice for understanding, if you seek it like silver and search for it as for hidden treasures, then you will understand the fear of the Lord and find the knowledge of God."

Etc... etc...

[rick]

Hello George,

It matters not the opinions of others. I want to see two scriptures to back up this claim otherwise it leads back to Babylon and all its false doctrine. 

Acts 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

2 Timothy 3:16-17 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

2 Timothy 2:15 "Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth."

Psalm 119:105 "Your word is a lamp to my feet and a light to my path."

Proverbs 2:1-5  "My son, if you receive my words and treasure up my commandments with you, making your ear attentive to wisdom and inclining your heart to understanding; yes, if you call out for insight and raise your voice for understanding, if you seek it like silver and search for it as for hidden treasures, then you will understand the fear of the Lord and find the knowledge of God."

Etc... etc...

Hello Alex,

This thread , is it possible to be chosen of God without reading the scriptures? The scriptures you brought out tell me no its not possible to be chosen without reading the scriptures. Thank you. 

[lareli]

The question was "is it possible.."

All things are possible with God.

Abraham didn't have the scriptures.

[Dennis Vogel]

The question was "is it possible.."

All things are possible with God.

Abraham didn't have the scriptures.

Certainly all things are possible with God... Except God Cannot Lie (and a few others).

Tit 1:2  In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;

If He chooses outside of His own boundaries/parameters laid out in the scriptures then that would make Him a lair.

The most obvious parameter is Him choosing someone before the world existed.

[John from Kentucky]

The question was "is it possible.."

All things are possible with God.

Abraham didn't have the scriptures.

Abraham will not be in the 1st Resurrection.  Neither will anyone before Jesus including John the Baptist.

All of the Old Testament figures will come up in a resurrection of judgment to be judged by the called and chosen.



I guess before all those unlearned in the Scriptures freak out from my above comment, I should attach the below email from Ray, which will still confuse the Many since the Scriptures are contrary to Christian teachings and beliefs.

http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,2385.0.html

[lareli]

Ok. How about the man on the cross next to Jesus?

The question was is it possible for someone to be chosen of God without reading the scriptures..

The answer is yes. God can choose whomever He wants. He can choose someone from before the foundation of the world and determine that this chosen one would not even have access to a bible. How can anyone say that is not possible? How is that going outside of Gods parameters?

Scripture tells us which is more important, knowing the bible or doing what Christ commanded which is to love one another as ourselves. Romans also says that it's possible for those who are without the law (love God and love your neighbor as yourself) to do instinctively what the law commands (love God and love your neighbor as yourself)..

It is not the hearers or readers of the word who will be justified but the doers. Love your God and love your neighbor as yourself is the sum of all the commands. People can obey the one single command which sums up all commands without ever opening a bible. They can be chosen of God before the creation of the world to obey and be justified.

This is my understanding and I don't proclaim that my understanding is right or wrong. It's just the understanding that I have now.

[Kat]

There is a basic principle about who is an elect and will be in the first resurrection. They must be 'in' Christ, but Christ must be in them as well, and that is only by the Holy Spirit of Christ indwelling.

Rom 8:9  But you are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone has not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of His.

John 17:21  that they all may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I in You; that they also may be one in Us, that the world may believe that You sent Me.
22  And the glory which You gave Me I have given them, that they may be one just as We are one:
23  I in them, and You in Me; that they may be made perfect in one, and that the world may know that You have sent Me, and have loved them as You have loved Me.

The Spirit of Christ was not offered or given to anybody until Christ was born into the world, lived a human life, was crucified as a sin offering and then resurrected, all this had to happen first.

The thief on the cross right there beside Christ, died before Christ was risen!

John 1:17  For the law was given through Moses, but grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.   

John 14:26  But the Comforter, the Holy Spirit whom the Father will send in My name, He shall teach you all things and bring all things to your remembrance, whatever I have said to you.

John 16:7  But I tell you the truth, it is expedient for you that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Comforter will not come to you. But if I depart, I will send Him to you.

John 15:26  And when the Comforter has come, whom I will send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth who proceeds from the Father, He shall testify of Me.

Rom 3:24  being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus,
25  whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness,

Those in the first resurrection will be sent into this world to rule with Christ, they will be ready to go when resurrected, because they will have been prepared through the study of the Word of Scripture already. Who do you think the Bible, Word of God, was prepared and preserved for anyway? The world/church? Come on, it is so God can train/prepare His elect. The words printed in the Bible are just words to the world/church, but to His elect they teach them the Spirit of life.

John 6:63  It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life.

2Co 3:6  who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

Don't think that anybody will casually enter the kingdom at the first resurrection, it is only those few that the Spirit has taught how to live righteous, and that knowledge comes from much Scripture study that is preserved especially for the elect and meditation on those things and being continually in pray. Yes it is putting God first and coming to a very close relationship with Christ, and certainly putting your fellowman before yourself.

Think about how the Apostles lived and we have Ray as a modern time example as well, that is living a righteous life, that is what it will take to be in the first resurrection. Maybe read the Bible study 'How Hard is Getting Saved?' at this link http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,3849.0.html

mercy, peace and love
Kat

[dave]

  Amen Kat

[lilitalienboi16]

There is a basic principle about who is an elect and will be in the first resurrection. They must be 'in' Christ, but Christ must be in them as well, and that is only by the Holy Spirit of Christ indwelling.

Rom 8:9  But you are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone has not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of His.

John 17:21  that they all may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I in You; that they also may be one in Us, that the world may believe that You sent Me.
22  And the glory which You gave Me I have given them, that they may be one just as We are one:
23  I in them, and You in Me; that they may be made perfect in one, and that the world may know that You have sent Me, and have loved them as You have loved Me.

The Spirit of Christ was not offered or given to anybody until Christ was born into the world, lived a human life, was crucified as a sin offering and then resurrected, all this had to happen first.

The thief on the cross right there beside Christ, died before Christ was risen!

John 1:17  For the law was given through Moses, but grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.   

John 14:26  But the Comforter, the Holy Spirit whom the Father will send in My name, He shall teach you all things and bring all things to your remembrance, whatever I have said to you.

John 16:7  But I tell you the truth, it is expedient for you that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Comforter will not come to you. But if I depart, I will send Him to you.

John 15:26  And when the Comforter has come, whom I will send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth who proceeds from the Father, He shall testify of Me.

Rom 3:24  being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus,
25  whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness,

Those in the first resurrection will be sent into this world to rule with Christ, they will be ready to go when resurrected, because they will have been prepared through the study of the Word of Scripture already. Who do you think the Bible, Word of God, was prepared and preserved for anyway? The world/church? Come on, it is so God can train/prepare His elect. The words printed in the Bible are just words to the world/church, but to His elect they teach them the Spirit of life.

John 6:63  It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life.

2Co 3:6  who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

Don't think that anybody will casually enter the kingdom at the first resurrection, it is only those few that the Spirit has taught how to live righteous, and that knowledge comes from much Scripture study that is preserved especially for the elect and meditation on those things and being continually in pray. Yes it is putting God first and coming to a very close relationship with Christ, and certainly putting your fellowman before yourself.

Think about how the Apostles lived and we have Ray as a modern time example as well, that is living a righteous life, that is what it will take to be in the first resurrection. Maybe read the Bible study 'How Hard is Getting Saved?' at this link http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,3849.0.html

mercy, peace and love
Kat

To add to what Kat and John said:

Hebrews 11:13 "These [The patriarchs of old, the prophets etc..] all died in faith, NOT having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth."

Hebrews 11:39-40 "And these all [Those same patriarchs from above], having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise: God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect."

Indeed it was only until Christ came, died, and was raised, that anyone could be in Christ and Christ in him, which as kat pointed out, is absolutely necessary for salvation. This is why Paul (who was very studied in the old testament and who kept the law flawlessly) could say that the patriarchs still await the resurrection and future judgement of the world.

Also, as Kat said, these things are FOR US:

1 Corinthians 10: 1-4  "Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; And did all eat the same spiritual meat;And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ."

1 Corinthians 10:11 "Now all these things happened unto them for examples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come."

Yes indeed, the scriptures, they are FOR US. They were not intended to be for anyone else but those whom God is calling and choosing. Them He will justify.

Romans 8:29-30 "For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified."

In Christ,
Alex

[Dennis Vogel]

Ok. How about the man on the cross next to Jesus?

The question was is it possible for someone to be chosen of God without reading the scriptures..

Just because the man on the cross next to Jesus will eventually be in paradise (like every other human being) does not mean he was chosen before the foundation of the world.

There is a process every chosen person goes through and that man did not go through that process before he died, else he would not have been on that cross in the first place.

[microlink]

Growth into the fullness of Christ is a process. First as babes in Christ and feeding on milk, then growing unto perfection.


1Co_3:2  I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.

Heb_5:13  For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.

Eph_4:13  Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

It is a process of being tried by fire now, others later. Big difference between being called and chosen. Wonderful of God is in providing for us and all His children in His care.

[indianabob]

Helpful discussion, Dennis, Kat & all.

One item still concerns me and that is the "dark ages" when scripture was not available. Hand written Latin Bibles were held away from the membership and even most Catholic priests other than at the Vatican.
So then are we saying that during all those centuries God had no one that understood without having access to the Vatican library or the copy of scripture owned by the very rich?
We are I think supposing that the "chosen" had to be called out of the operational "Christian" church which during that time before Martin Luther was governed by edict from Rome or elsewhere when Rome fell.
Just wondering how this need to "read" applies during the several centuries noted when few were Bible literate.

Indiana Bob

[Dennis Vogel]

Good points Bob and I don't know.

Ray use to say (maybe not publicly) that there was always someone in each generation. Perhaps just a few people back then?

[lilitalienboi16]

Helpful discussion, Dennis, Kat & all.

One item still concerns me and that is the "dark ages" when scripture was not available. Hand written Latin Bibles were held away from the membership and even most Catholic priests other than at the Vatican.
So then are we saying that during all those centuries God had no one that understood without having access to the Vatican library or the copy of scripture owned by the very rich?
We are I think supposing that the "chosen" had to be called out of the operational "Christian" church which during that time before Martin Luther was governed by edict from Rome or elsewhere when Rome fell.
Just wondering how this need to "read" applies during the several centuries noted when few were Bible literate.

Indiana Bob

Hi bob,

I believe its entirely possible that during these times, God was able to provide the scriptures to those He so chose to save. After all, our God and Saviour has been known to do far greater things than this

God bless,
Alex