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Author Topic: 144.000 ?  (Read 17374 times)

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Mike Gagne

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144.000 ?
« on: October 25, 2014, 02:01:00 AM »

    ?  The number of those who are sealed , 144.000 , does LRay talk on this number? Is that the number of how many are the elect?  Is this a literal number? Can numbers be symbols? If we can't add or take away would that make this number mean what it says 144.000?  Can we get the truth of this number from the word? 
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lilitalienboi16

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Re: 144.000 ?
« Reply #1 on: October 25, 2014, 05:02:20 AM »

    ?  The number of those who are sealed , 144.000 , does LRay talk on this number? Is that the number of how many are the elect?  Is this a literal number? Can numbers be symbols? If we can't add or take away would that make this number mean what it says 144.000?  Can we get the truth of this number from the word?

Hey Mike,

This is not literal. Remember revelations was "SIGNIFIED" to John and that Christ's words are "SPIRIT."

Revelation 1:1 "The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:"

John 6:63 "It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life."
« Last Edit: October 25, 2014, 05:08:42 AM by lilitalienboi16 »
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1 Cor 1:10 "Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment."

ryman

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Re: 144.000 ?
« Reply #2 on: October 25, 2014, 05:33:39 AM »

If the number itself isn't literal, how else can it be used unlike words?

Like the lake of fire not being literal to physically torture or burn, we can still see the properties of fire.

But what about a number? If the amount itself doesn't matter than why not just say 5 or 6? What can a number not taken as a number represent? Another number? Words?

I agree though, why would it matter the number? If its just the elect it seems small, but that doesn't say much either. There's the other group that no one knows the number....seems like a different group.
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Ian 155

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Re: 144.000 ?
« Reply #3 on: October 25, 2014, 07:09:11 AM »

Numbers Im finding out are most important (everything in the word is)

Perhaps consider/ponder, 12 tribes forming all israel - 12x12=?

1Ki_18:31; Luk_22:30; Jam_1:1; Rev_7:4-8, Rev_21:12

12 stones,12 disciples,12 Pillars etc
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indianabob

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Re: 144.000 ?
« Reply #4 on: October 25, 2014, 12:15:17 PM »

144

Maybe this number is another of God's mysteries or spiritual secrets that God hold in His own mind until the time is right to reveal it. Then, after it is revealed it will make perfect sense. 1 Cor 2:10
It is there to tease us a little and teach patience...

Bob
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Kat

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Re: 144.000 ?
« Reply #5 on: October 25, 2014, 01:39:56 PM »


Hi Mike,

http://bible-truths.com/lake8.html ----------------------------

"And I will write upon him the NAME OF MY GOD, and the NAME OF THE CITY of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from My God: and I will write upon him MY NEW NAME."

That’s CHRIST! These are honors and rewards bestowed upon us by Christ. The 144,000 (12 x 12, complete foundational kingdom of God’s government for the new world) are given the Father’s name in their foreheads (Rev. 14:1 & 22:4). Not a tattoo on the forehead skin, but inside their foreheads, in their hearts and minds.

New Jerusalem is the heavenly Jerusalem spoken of in Heb. 12:22, where "the general assembly and church of the firstborn [Christ and His anointed body of believers], which are written in heaven" is found. It is from New Jerusalem and heavenly Mt. Sion that the government of Christ will proceed in bringing Salvation to the Earth and the Universe (Isa. 2:2). I will write upon him My new name. This is the same new name that we discussed in the Church of Pergamos.
-------------------------------------------------------------------

When you look at how the number 12 is used throughout Scripture it seems to show the completion of what God is doing. There were 12 tribes of Israel that represented the Old Testament people of God. Then as the New Testament begins Christ chose 12 disciples and when 1 (Judas) killed himself, they added another to bring it back up to 12. It's interesting that Jesus was answering the questions the scholars in the Temple at the age of 12 (Luke 2:42).

In Revelation 21 there is the city coming out of heaven, New Jerusalem which has 12 pearl gates, 12 angels gatekeepers, the names of the 12 tribes of the children of Israel written on the gates and the wall of the city had 12 foundations with the names of the 12 apostles. All symbolizing the perfect completeness of it.

The Tree of Life was in the garden of Eden and in Revelation 22 we see it represents Christ and is in New Jerusalem having 12 fruits yielding fruit each of the 12 months.

• 12 pillars were erected at Mt. Sinai [Exodus 24:4].
• 12 pillars were erected in the Promised Land [Joshua 4:1-9].
• 12 statues of oxen held up the water basin in Solomon's Temple [1 Kings 7:25].
• 12 men were selected by God to conduct the census of the tribes [Numbers 1:2-16].
• 12 princes of Israel brought gifts to the Sanctuary on 12 days [Numbers 7:10-83].
• 12 spies sent to reconnoiter Canaan [Numbers 13:1-15].
• 12 legions of angles [Matthew 26:53].
 
Rev 14:1  Then I looked, and behold, on Mount Zion stood the Lamb, and with Him 144,000 who had His name and His Father's name written on their foreheads.
v. 2  And I heard a voice from heaven like the roar of many waters and like the sound of loud thunder. The voice I heard was like the sound of harpists playing on their harps,
v. 3  and they were singing a new song before the throne and before the four living creatures and before the elders. No one could learn that song except the 144,000 who had been redeemed from the earth.
 
So when you see the significance of the number 12 in Scripture and see that the 144,000 is 12 times 12 a thousand times, 1000 in Scripture can represent all of something.

Deu 7:9  "Therefore know that the LORD your God, He is God, the faithful God who keeps covenant and mercy for 1000 generations with those who love Him and keep His commandments;

1Ch 16:15  Remember His covenant forever, The word which He commanded, for a thousand generations,

Psalms 50:10  For every beast of the forest is Mine, And the cattle on 1000 hills.

2Peter 3:8  But, beloved, do not forget this one thing, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

Lots of symbolism there, hope it's helpful.

mercy, peace and love
Kat
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Mike Gagne

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Re: 144.000 ?
« Reply #6 on: October 28, 2014, 12:07:35 AM »

Thank you all for your replies, Kat what you posted was very helpful ,  144.000 sounds like a real number and I am okay with it. Anyhow I dont think they will be counting each other and I also don't think that the number will be more or less!  I am greatful for this site and all the post that everyone shares! 😀
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Joel

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Re: 144.000 ?
« Reply #7 on: October 28, 2014, 02:19:49 AM »

The way I see it God is the Supreme architect, and he also is the ultimate perfectionist in all things.
God has used many numbers throughout the entire Bible.
Some are to be taken literal and others are symbolic.
Sometimes there is an explanation as to what the numbers represent, The 144,00 in Revelations 14:4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.
Is the 144,000 a literal number? Is the seven thousand God refers to in his conversation with Elijah in 1st Kings a literal number? 1st Kings 19:18 Yet I have left me seven thousand in Israel, all the knees which have not bowed unto Baal, and every mouth which hath not kissed him.

Joel


 
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Ian 155

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Re: 144.000 ?
« Reply #8 on: October 28, 2014, 08:51:56 AM »

Rev 7:4  And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.
Rev 7:5  Of the tribe of Juda were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Reuben were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Gad were sealed twelve thousand.
Rev 7:6  Of the tribe of Aser were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Nepthalim were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Manasses were sealed twelve thousand.
Rev 7:7  Of the tribe of Simeon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Levi were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Issachar were sealed twelve thousand.
Rev 7:8  Of the tribe of Zabulon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Joseph were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Benjamin were sealed twelve thousand.

These are the elect (sealed)  who do not have any part, (fornicate) with The Great Whore (the church system/world system)  "carnal  Beings" the walking dead ....

"Those who come out of Her" ... Those led by the Spirit not the flesh -

12000 sealed x 12 tribes


« Last Edit: October 28, 2014, 09:00:10 AM by Ian 155 »
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Kat

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Re: 144.000 ?
« Reply #9 on: October 28, 2014, 11:30:09 AM »



http://bible-truths.com/lake1.html -----------------------

LITERAL OR SYMBOLIC?

In many cases it is not difficult to determine whether a verse is literal or not. But, since we use figures of speech so often we tend to forget that much of what we say daily is not literally true. Many of us would hardly be able to carry on a conversation if we had to drop out of our vocabulary every word and every phrase we speak that is NOT LITERALLY TRUE. The English language, as well as all other languages, is just filled with symbolic and metaphorical phrases.

The first eleven verses of Chapter one in Revelation are an introduction regarding where, how, and what John is going to record for us. Much of this introduction can be taken literally, however, not all. Beginning with verse twelve, we are confronted with one symbol after another for the remainder of the entire twenty-two-chapter-book.

Everything written in Revelation is true, but most is not literally true.

The fact is there are many many truths in the Bible
 that are not literally true.
Jesus "said" that the bread He gave His disciples at the Lord’s supper was His body. Yet, Jesus Himself explains in other places that this was not literally true. He gave them literal bread, and not His literal physical flesh. What that bread represented, and symbolized, was indeed, His body--but not his physical body.

Jesus said that the words that he spoke were SPIRIT (John 6:63). Jesus Christ changes not. His words are STILL spirit and they certainly were spirit when John wrote the words of Christ regarding His unveiling or revelation. Just as we physically feed on physical bread for PHYSICAL LIFE, thus also we spiritually feed on Jesus Christ’s spiritual body for SPIRITUAL LIFE.

Understand this! Some think that by accepting the Scriptures as they are given (in the case of Revelation that means AS SYMBOLS), that somehow this "spiritualizes away" the teaching. What? It is the "spiritual" aspect of these symbols that IS THE REAL THING; THE REAL UNDERSTANDING! Physical things "pass away" whereas spiritual things are eternal! The very FACT that this book is written in "symbols" is proof positive that the understanding of them is SPIRITUAL and not physical or literal.

Symbols, metaphors, and parables ARE NEVER LITERALLY TRUE! But they powerfully demonstrate SPIRITUAL TRUTHS!

http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,2607.0.html ------

Dear Matt:

    The book of Revelation is a book "signified" with SYMBOLS.  And the words of Jesus are "SPIRIT" (I John 6:63).  And it is filled with signs and metaphors. None of these things are literal.

    The Seven Churches are not literally seven.  The 24 elders are not literally 24. The 144,000 are not literally 144,000.  The 1000 years is not literally a thousand years. These are ALL symbols. The Lake of Fire is neither a literal lake or literal fire.

    And your statement: "the 'saved in this lifetime, i.e. called and chosen but not elect' are those who merely populate the millennial kingdom" is bogus. There is no such thing as "called AND chosen, but NOT elect."  The called and chosen ARE THE ELECT.  I wish that I could tell you that you are among the chosen elect, but that is something that I do not know. God knows those who are His, but no one else does. Therefore, it behooves us all to do diligence in our walk of faith.

    God be with you,

    Ray
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Rene

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Re: 144.000 ?
« Reply #10 on: October 28, 2014, 02:31:30 PM »



http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,2607.0.html ------

Dear Matt:

    The book of Revelation is a book "signified" with SYMBOLS.  And the words of Jesus are "SPIRIT" (I John 6:63).  And it is filled with signs and metaphors. None of these things are literal.

    The Seven Churches are not literally seven.  The 24 elders are not literally 24. The 144,000 are not literally 144,000.  The 1000 years is not literally a thousand years. These are ALL symbols. The Lake of Fire is neither a literal lake or literal fire.

   Ray

Jehovah's Witnesses believed that the 144,000 was a literal number and kept a running count of those who qualified. :o  When I was drawn to BT, it didn't take long for me to let go of those old beliefs.

René
« Last Edit: October 28, 2014, 06:17:25 PM by Rene »
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Mike Gagne

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Re: 144.000 ?
« Reply #11 on: October 28, 2014, 11:23:36 PM »

 Good stuff everyone and thank you! So it's safe to say that it could be a literal number and it is also safe to say that it could be a symbolic number?  Romans 11:25 refers to when the full number of the Gentiles comes to Christ , is this a reference to the elect?, and if so would it suggest that there is a specific number to come in?  Why I believe this number is 144.000 is because of this scripture....And I solemnly declare to everyone who hears the words of prophecy written in this book: If anyone adds anything to what is written here, God will add to that person the plagues described in this book. And if anyone removes any of the words from this book of prophecy, God will remove that person’s share in the tree of life and in the holy city that are described in this book. (Revelation‬ 22‬:18-19‬ NLT)... This number really never meant anything to me before my coming out of Babyalon, but me and a brother think this is a literal number and I came here because to see if it was symbolic someone here might have a explanation of what it symbolizes...thank you all... P.S Rene I am not a Jehovah's witness, when they used to come to my door before I was called I think I scared them! 👹 lol,Anyhow I am glad even those who aren't the elect will end up in Gods Kingdom!! 😊
« Last Edit: October 28, 2014, 11:26:35 PM by Mike Gagne »
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Kat

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Re: 144.000 ?
« Reply #12 on: October 28, 2014, 11:44:22 PM »


Mike, there is a lot of symbolism in that number, so yes it is a symbolic number and as Ray had explained, symbols are never literal or that is not the literal number of elect in the first resurrection.

Now the Scripture you referred to in Rom. 11 may very well be referring to the elect... God most certainly knows the exact number of elect there will be, "Declaring the end from the beginning, And from ancient times things that are not yet done, Saying, 'My counsel shall stand, And I will do all My pleasure,'" (Isa 46:10). My own opinion is that I don't see how it could be that very number.

mercy, peace and love
Kat
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Mike Gagne

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Re: 144.000 ?
« Reply #13 on: October 29, 2014, 12:15:35 AM »

Hi Kat

Hi Mike,

http://bible-truths.com/lake8.html ----------------------------

"And I will write upon him the NAME OF MY GOD, and the NAME OF THE CITY of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from My God: and I will write upon him MY NEW NAME."

That’s CHRIST! These are honors and rewards bestowed upon us by Christ. The 144,000 (12 x 12, complete foundational kingdom of God’s government for the new world) are given the Father’s name in their foreheads (Rev. 14:1 & 22:4). Not a tattoo on the forehead skin, but inside their foreheads, in their hearts and minds.

New Jerusalem is the heavenly Jerusalem spoken of in Heb. 12:22, where "the general assembly and church of the firstborn [Christ and His anointed body of believers], which are written in heaven" is found. It is from New Jerusalem and heavenly Mt. Sion that the government of Christ will proceed in bringing Salvation to the Earth and the Universe (Isa. 2:2). I will write upon him My new name. This is the same new name that we discussed in the Church of Pergamos.
-------------------------------------------------------------------

When you look at how the number 12 is used throughout Scripture it seems to show the completion of what God is doing. There were 12 tribes of Israel that represented the Old Testament people of God. Then as the New Testament begins Christ chose 12 disciples and when 1 (Judas) killed himself, they added another to bring it back up to 12. It's interesting that Jesus was answering the questions the scholars in the Temple at the age of 12 (Luke 2:42).

In Revelation 21 there is the city coming out of heaven, New Jerusalem which has 12 pearl gates, 12 angels gatekeepers, the names of the 12 tribes of the children of Israel written on the gates and the wall of the city had 12 foundations with the names of the 12 apostles. All symbolizing the perfect completeness of it.

The Tree of Life was in the garden of Eden and in Revelation 22 we see it represents Christ and is in New Jerusalem having 12 fruits yielding fruit each of the 12 months.

• 12 pillars were erected at Mt. Sinai [Exodus 24:4].
• 12 pillars were erected in the Promised Land [Joshua 4:1-9].
• 12 statues of oxen held up the water basin in Solomon's Temple [1 Kings 7:25].
• 12 men were selected by God to conduct the census of the tribes [Numbers 1:2-16].
• 12 princes of Israel brought gifts to the Sanctuary on 12 days [Numbers 7:10-83].
• 12 spies sent to reconnoiter Canaan [Numbers 13:1-15].
• 12 legions of angles [Matthew 26:53].
 
Rev 14:1  Then I looked, and behold, on Mount Zion stood the Lamb, and with Him 144,000 who had His name and His Father's name written on their foreheads.
v. 2  And I heard a voice from heaven like the roar of many waters and like the sound of loud thunder. The voice I heard was like the sound of harpists playing on their harps,
v. 3  and they were singing a new song before the throne and before the four living creatures and before the elders. No one could learn that song except the 144,000 who had been redeemed from the earth.
 
So when you see the significance of the number 12 in Scripture and see that the 144,000 is 12 times 12 a thousand times, 1000 in Scripture can represent all of something.

Deu 7:9  "Therefore know that the LORD your God, He is God, the faithful God who keeps covenant and mercy for 1000 generations with those who love Him and keep His commandments;

1Ch 16:15  Remember His covenant forever, The word which He commanded, for a thousand generations,

Psalms 50:10  For every beast of the forest is Mine, And the cattle on 1000 hills.

2Peter 3:8  But, beloved, do not forget this one thing, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

Lots of symbolism there, hope it's helpful.

mercy, peace and love
Kat
in this quote LRay says the the 144.000 will have honours and rewards bestowed upon us by Christ , I was thinking he was quoting this number as literal and then in your second last post LRay says this number is not a literal number, I am so confused!! Lol  I have stated it as a literal number, I see that there are opinions on this number even in this thread and I think they are all good opinions! I guess I was looking for either a explanation on the meaning of the symbol or the meaning of literal number. I guess if the book is a book that's  is signified then I will have to believe it is a symbolic number.
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lilitalienboi16

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Re: 144.000 ?
« Reply #14 on: October 29, 2014, 01:31:44 AM »

Hi Kat

Hi Mike,

http://bible-truths.com/lake8.html ----------------------------

"And I will write upon him the NAME OF MY GOD, and the NAME OF THE CITY of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from My God: and I will write upon him MY NEW NAME."

That’s CHRIST! These are honors and rewards bestowed upon us by Christ. The 144,000 (12 x 12, complete foundational kingdom of God’s government for the new world) are given the Father’s name in their foreheads (Rev. 14:1 & 22:4). Not a tattoo on the forehead skin, but inside their foreheads, in their hearts and minds.

New Jerusalem is the heavenly Jerusalem spoken of in Heb. 12:22, where "the general assembly and church of the firstborn [Christ and His anointed body of believers], which are written in heaven" is found. It is from New Jerusalem and heavenly Mt. Sion that the government of Christ will proceed in bringing Salvation to the Earth and the Universe (Isa. 2:2). I will write upon him My new name. This is the same new name that we discussed in the Church of Pergamos.
-------------------------------------------------------------------

When you look at how the number 12 is used throughout Scripture it seems to show the completion of what God is doing. There were 12 tribes of Israel that represented the Old Testament people of God. Then as the New Testament begins Christ chose 12 disciples and when 1 (Judas) killed himself, they added another to bring it back up to 12. It's interesting that Jesus was answering the questions the scholars in the Temple at the age of 12 (Luke 2:42).

In Revelation 21 there is the city coming out of heaven, New Jerusalem which has 12 pearl gates, 12 angels gatekeepers, the names of the 12 tribes of the children of Israel written on the gates and the wall of the city had 12 foundations with the names of the 12 apostles. All symbolizing the perfect completeness of it.

The Tree of Life was in the garden of Eden and in Revelation 22 we see it represents Christ and is in New Jerusalem having 12 fruits yielding fruit each of the 12 months.

• 12 pillars were erected at Mt. Sinai [Exodus 24:4].
• 12 pillars were erected in the Promised Land [Joshua 4:1-9].
• 12 statues of oxen held up the water basin in Solomon's Temple [1 Kings 7:25].
• 12 men were selected by God to conduct the census of the tribes [Numbers 1:2-16].
• 12 princes of Israel brought gifts to the Sanctuary on 12 days [Numbers 7:10-83].
• 12 spies sent to reconnoiter Canaan [Numbers 13:1-15].
• 12 legions of angles [Matthew 26:53].
 
Rev 14:1  Then I looked, and behold, on Mount Zion stood the Lamb, and with Him 144,000 who had His name and His Father's name written on their foreheads.
v. 2  And I heard a voice from heaven like the roar of many waters and like the sound of loud thunder. The voice I heard was like the sound of harpists playing on their harps,
v. 3  and they were singing a new song before the throne and before the four living creatures and before the elders. No one could learn that song except the 144,000 who had been redeemed from the earth.
 
So when you see the significance of the number 12 in Scripture and see that the 144,000 is 12 times 12 a thousand times, 1000 in Scripture can represent all of something.

Deu 7:9  "Therefore know that the LORD your God, He is God, the faithful God who keeps covenant and mercy for 1000 generations with those who love Him and keep His commandments;

1Ch 16:15  Remember His covenant forever, The word which He commanded, for a thousand generations,

Psalms 50:10  For every beast of the forest is Mine, And the cattle on 1000 hills.

2Peter 3:8  But, beloved, do not forget this one thing, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

Lots of symbolism there, hope it's helpful.

mercy, peace and love
Kat
in this quote LRay says the the 144.000 will have honours and rewards bestowed upon us by Christ , I was thinking he was quoting this number as literal and then in your second last post LRay says this number is not a literal number, I am so confused!! Lol  I have stated it as a literal number, I see that there are opinions on this number even in this thread and I think they are all good opinions! I guess I was looking for either a explanation on the meaning of the symbol or the meaning of literal number. I guess if the book is a book that's  is signified then I will have to believe it is a symbolic number.

Dear Mike,

I don't believe ray ever used that number as if its literal. The 144,000 is symbolic for the elect. When ray uses that number, hes seeing beyond just the literal value--the mathematical number. This is how we compare spiritual with spiritual.

1 Corinthians 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God [Receives not the WORD, receives not the UNDERSTANDING of the 144,000]: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

The scriptures are spiritually discerned.

1 Corinthians 2:13 "Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual."

John 6:63 "It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life."

You have to see beyond the literal if you are to get to the meat of the word.

1 Corinthians 3:2 I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.

Hebrews 5:12 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.

We have already shown you that Christ's words are spirit and that revelation is the revelation of CHRIST that was SIGNIFIED (To use symbols) to john. Now you also know that to discern the word of God you have to compare spiritual. This is a perfect match for:

Matthew 18:16 But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.

2 Corinthians 13:1 This is the third time I am coming to you. In the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established.

I wonder what this means... "And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth" (Revelation 11:3)

Hmm.... is that a literal two people who will prophesy for a literal 1260 days?

God bless,
Alex
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1 Cor 1:10 "Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment."

Kat

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Re: 144.000 ?
« Reply #15 on: October 29, 2014, 01:45:58 AM »


Mike I think the 144,000 could be considered a title just as, the chosen elect, the body of Christ, sheep, branches of the vine, the temple of the Holy Spirit, the bride of Christ, New Jerusalem, etc. is... I also think they are the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders (Rev 5:6-10) are as well. Lots of titles and lots of symbolism.

mercy, peace and love
Kat
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Mike Gagne

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Re: 144.000 ?
« Reply #16 on: October 29, 2014, 01:48:42 AM »

Hi Alex! You can spiritually discern this number? Then please explain! Any spiritual discernment LRay had he explained! Please explain it to me! Show me how you compare this this number spiritually with spiritually? Please! I think most of us who are new here only know what we know because of what we read on LRays web  sites! Seeing how you seem to know please explain your discernment on this?  Thank you! Much needed.
« Last Edit: October 29, 2014, 01:51:22 AM by Mike Gagne »
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Mike Gagne

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Re: 144.000 ?
« Reply #17 on: October 29, 2014, 02:02:47 AM »

Alex this is Lrays statement taking from  the post Kat posted!......That’s CHRIST! These are honors and rewards bestowed upon us by Christ. The 144,000 (12 x 12, complete foundational kingdom of God’s government for the new world) are given the Father’s name in their foreheads (Rev. 14:1 & 22:4). Not a tattoo on the forehead skin, but inside their foreheads, in their hearts and minds.
.... Okay , that seems like he's using it literally! I am not a educated man but it sure sounds literal in that statement!  If your trying to knock me down posting those scriptures that you seem to be saying that I am a baby on milk or maybe I am not spiritual man but a natural man, that's fine I will forgive you , but is it I who is still carnal? ........"Wherefore let him that thinks he stands take heed LEST HE FALL" (I Cor. 10:12).
 May God bless you Alex
« Last Edit: October 29, 2014, 02:14:17 AM by Mike Gagne »
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lilitalienboi16

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Re: 144.000 ?
« Reply #18 on: October 29, 2014, 03:46:32 AM »

Alex this is Lrays statement taking from  the post Kat posted!......That’s CHRIST! These are honors and rewards bestowed upon us by Christ. The 144,000 (12 x 12, complete foundational kingdom of God’s government for the new world) are given the Father’s name in their foreheads (Rev. 14:1 & 22:4). Not a tattoo on the forehead skin, but inside their foreheads, in their hearts and minds.
.... Okay , that seems like he's using it literally! I am not a educated man but it sure sounds literal in that statement!  If your trying to knock me down posting those scriptures that you seem to be saying that I am a baby on milk or maybe I am not spiritual man but a natural man, that's fine I will forgive you , but is it I who is still carnal? ........"Wherefore let him that thinks he stands take heed LEST HE FALL" (I Cor. 10:12).
 May God bless you Alex

Mike,

I see that this is a very difficult topic. I was not calling YOU carnal but rather showing you that if all you see is the physical literal number then you are not getting the real meaning behind it because God tells us by the apostles that this is all the natural carnal man receives and we know that the natural man doesn't understand these things.

Now I don't know you well enough to discern the condition of your heart but you condemn yourself when you interpret my words--an attempt at helping you understand--as an attack or judgment upon you.

We were all babes at some point and in many areas I still consider myself a babe. Its not meant to be a negative thing if God is dragging you. It just means there is more to learn.

Anyway, I do not ask God to bless those who are carnal. I do not pray for those who are not my brothers and sisters. I don't ask God to bless them nor the called nor the world. So I think you have interpreted my attempt to help you in the wrong way.

Everything points back to Christ in the end. Kat offered some great answers to what the number spiritually means, as did Ian with his pointing out of the 12000 from each tribe in revelation (12000x12000 =144000). Remember Israel had twelve sons which later became twelve tribes and whom comprised the Israel of God. Today, who is the Isreal of God?? We are.

1 Kings 19:18 "Yet I reserve seven thousand in Israel--all whose knees have not bowed down to Baal and whose mouths have not kissed him."

Romans 11:4-5 "But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal. Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace."

Isaiah 37:32 For out of Jerusalem will come a remnant, and out of Mount Zion a band of survivors. The zeal of the LORD Almighty will accomplish this.

Zechariah 13:9 And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The Lord is my God.

This, and many other witnesses, testify to the 144,000.

In Christ,
Alex
« Last Edit: October 29, 2014, 03:56:45 AM by lilitalienboi16 »
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1 Cor 1:10 "Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment."

Ian 155

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Re: 144.000 ?
« Reply #19 on: October 29, 2014, 07:11:28 AM »

here is another scripture (parable)pertaining to what the sealed or elect's function is...and what % God will use...


Jdg 7:7  The LORD said to Gideon, "I will use the 300 men who lapped the water like a dog. I will use them to save you, and I will allow you to defeat the Midianites. Let the other men go home."

I'm beginning to notice that This "Whore" (who we are to come out of, if we are to be SEALED) tries to/often does, seduce me and its virtually every minute of this life, not just as what happened to our Lord (literally) Satan tested Jesus on 3 literal occasions however each of these tests cover many multiple things, although we read about turning stones into bread (1 thing) the meaning is far greater or has many "tentacles"if I can put it like that.

Not to long ago I was in a state of "Lord what if I have got all this stuff wrong(you put a lying spirit in me) and I am really going to a literal Hell"Or what If we just die anyway and become dust and vanish ??

This seductive spirit must be told to "Get behind me" if it cannot give me 2-3 witnesses and if the interpretation is literal or satisfies the flesh (carnal).Now multiply this by several hundred attacks/thoughts a day and covering all Lust and all pride issues one has to deal with, see what I mean - its relentless.

Now one can get an Idea of what it takes to be part of the elect.(what it takes to pass/overcome) what it takes to "come out of her" ITS IMPOSSIBLE with man

I cannot comment on the exact number of how many literal elect there are going to be - we work this out by a process called "Fear and trembling".

I'm thinking 144 000,00 Is a "minute" number of people in relation to ALL who have ever lived and All who are still living so,In context of the Many and the FEW, 144 000 sounds about right but I only have, as yet a LITERAL understanding of this number In Rev 7

What If there are 144 000 'Super Elect' who are higher in rank and who delegate or task the elect ? ephesians 4v11 ;1 cor 12v28...

I hope we are not misguided into thinking these elect are still coming at a future time?or that Revelation is for someone else in time to come??

Surely we can see certain fruits from bumping into a certain Ray Smith fellow
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