Are the wicked chaff

[Rinus]

Hi all

Job 21:17-18 NIV -'Yet how often is the lamp of the wicked snuffed out?  How often often does calamity come upon them, the fate God allots in his anger?  How often are they like straw before the wind, like chaff swept away by a gale.'

Psalm 1:4 NIV -'Not so the wicked! They are like chaff that the wind blows away."

Psalm 35:5 NIV -'May they(the wicked) be like chaff before the wind,...'

Isa 17:13 NIV -'Although the peoples roar like the roar of surging water, when he rebukes them they flee far away, driven before the wind like chaff on the hills, like tumbleweed before a gale.'

Isa 29:5 NIV -'But your many enemies will become like fine dust, the ruthless hordes like blown chaff.'

Isa 41:15 NIV -'See, I(God) will make you into a threshing sledge, new and sharp, with many teeth.  You will thresh the mountains and crush them, and reduce the hills to chaff.'  Read the whole chapter 41 to understand it.

Hosea 13:3 NIV -'Therefore they(the wicked) will be like the morning mist, like the early dew that disappears, like chaff swirling from a threshing floor, like smoke escaping through a window.'

I know some bible versions don't use the word 'chaff'; rather they use the word 'trash', and 'straw'.  Unless my eyes are deceiving me, the above verses are likening the wicked to chaff.  But in Ray's paper 'The Sermon on the Mount is for You, Now!' I read:

"We are the wheat of Jesus' parable, and we have unwanted chaff surrounding our lives.  Jesus is not likening some people to wheat and others to chaff.  The wheat is not one group and the chaff another, but rather the unwanted chaff belongs to the desired wheat."

Is there something that I'm not seeing?

Thanks guys

[Joel]

Chaff is part of the wheat either way you look at it.

Joel

[Kat]

Hi Rinus,

Just because there are Scripture that refer to chaff as wicked people it does not mean that in other Scripture can't use it to mean the carnal traits of a person. In 1 Cor 3 Paul makes a similar analogy of the "foundation" we lay in our lives or our character traits we develop, and that is likened to very enduring metals and jewels or useless things that are easy to decay.

1Cor 3:12  Now if anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw,

And you can see in the excerpt from the article that is Ray's meaning as well.

http://bible-truths.com/lake16-D3.htm ----------------------

Again fire (Gk; pur) is used figuratively, because the one being tried, "...he himself shall be saved, yet as BY FIRE." If one is "saved by fire," he is not eternally tortured in fire.

"I indeed baptize you  [those who repented, not the Pharisees whom he just called snakes]  with water unto repentance: but He  [Jesus] that comes after me is mightier than I, Whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: He shall baptize you with the Holy Spirit  [that's good], and with fire  [that's also good]" (Matt. 3:11).

Here, being baptized (immersed) in fire [pur] is as important and beneficial as being baptized with God's Holy Spirit.

"Whose fan is in His hand, and He will thoroughly purge His [threshing] floor, and gather His wheat  [wheat is good] into the garner, but He will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire"  (Matt. 3:12).

Chaff is the bracts enclosing the good, mature wheat, which is removed during threshing-it has no value as food, and so is burned like the wood, hay, and stubble of I Cor. 3:12. The Elect are composed of both the valuable wheat and the worthless chaff, but we are not the tares. Notice that the chaff is "burned up... with unquenchable fire." If this "unquenchable fire" "burns up" the chaff, surely it cannot be eternal. Unquenchable has nothing to do with eternal. Unquenchable fires is Scriptures that are not allowed to be quenched before they are allowed to burn themselves out.

"He will gather His wheat... but He will burn up the chaff"  (Matt. 3:12).

We are the wheat of Jesus' parable, and we have unwanted chaff surrounding our lives. Jesus is not likening some people to wheat and others to chaff. The wheat is not one group and the chaff another, but rather the unwanted chaff belongs to the desired wheat. The wheat is the baby and the chaff is the bath water. We do not throw away the baby with the bath water, but we do throw away the dirty bath water (in this analogy the bath water represents chaff which is burned in fire).

"For every one shall be salted with fire and every sacrifice shall be salted with salt"  (Mark 9:49, See Rom. 12:1-we are that sacrifice).

Fire purifies and burns up unwanted character traits likened to "straw, hay, and stubble" and also to "chaff." But Salt is a preservative. Hence the salt and the fire. The spiritual fire purifies us and the spiritual salt preserves us.
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mercy, peace and love
Kat

[Rinus]

Thanx guys

[Dave in Tenn]

Rinus, this is why we shouldn't assume the bible is written in some sort of code.  That's not what "spiritually discerned" means.