An Encouraging Word About Death

[Gina]

Virtually every time that I have read that verse (dozens of times), it was to prove to someone that we do not have an immortal soul that lives on after death of the body, nor do we have consciousness as is taught in Christendom. But this past year I took another look at this verse and saw something else that I had never contemplated before.

Not only is there no consciousness in death, but there is no consciousness OF death either. This is the encouraging part.

"The living KNOW that they shall die, but the dead KNOW NOT ANYTHING."

Let's think about that for a few moments and see if this is not quite encouraging.

"The living KNOW... the dead know NOTHING." The dead don't know that they are dead. When you die, you will NOT KNOW THAT YOU ARE DEAD! But it gets better. Not only will you never know that you are dead at some point in the future, but from your perspective YOU NEVER EVEN LOST CONSCIOUSNESS. This to me was a marvelous revelation.

Once God creates consciousness in a human they will NEVER EVER know anything BUT CONSCIOUSNESS. From my perspective and from your perspective we will never "know" ANYTHING but life and feelings and emotions and consciousness. From our perspective we will never "know" what it is like to be dead. Oh we will probably die some day (assuming that the Lord doesn't come first), but we will never know that we were dead; we will never know what it is to BE dead, or to BE unconscious. Others will know and sorrow (maybe?) that we are dead and gone, but from OUR perspective we will never lose conscious reality, and we will never "experience" being dead.

http://bible-truths.com/death.htm

That, I can understand. 

Here in this email, Ray said that Jesus would experience agony inside the tomb:

In the HEART OF THE EARTH" is a parable showing the unbelievable agony of the human spirit and flesh that Jesus would go through LEADING UP TO and INCLUDING the time in the tomb.

http://bible-truths.com/email6.htm#three

Ray wrote that email reply to that email long before he wrote An Encouraging Word About Death.  I believe that Ray would agree that Jesus didn't actually experienced any "agony" while He was dead in the tomb, because if He did experience anything while He was actually dead, then Jesus had consciousness in death and Jesus didn't really die.   

So I just wanted to clear that up.  Those of us who have been here from almost the start of Bible-Truths.com have basically watched Ray grow in grace and truth and there were times when he would say things that he would later correct himself on.  Which I think is a very noble thing to do.  (Outside of NT writers and a Pope, I have yet to see any theologians or scholars doing that!  It takes guts.)  He didn't go around pretending like he knew it all from the start.   And I believe that if I were to write Ray and ask him if Jesus experienced agony while in the tomb, Ray would say no, because Jesus was dead and the dead know not anything.  I really believe that.

[Kat]

Hi Gina, here is a post from the FAQ board that should explain this completely for anybody that needs it.

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,11616.0.html ----

Jesus was three days and three nights in the HEART OF THE EARTH

http://bible-truths.com/email6.htm#three

Hello Ray,

On your Email question and answer on a reply to a question you  mention Matt.12;40 saying that the verse is not speaking about the length of time that Jesus was buried. Why is your view changed?

Urban

[Ray Replies]

Dear Urban:

You are a pretty sharp guy to catch that! I will write a separate paper on this subject in the near future, or I may incorporate it into my paper on "The Lake of Fire."

I changed my view, because as of three months ago, I realized I was teaching heresy regarding these "three days and three nights." I spent tens of hours on this subject a couple of months back, when I should have been writing on my paper. A friend believed that "three days and three nights" could mean any part of three days and three nights. I said that "three days and three nights" could not possibly means "Friday night, Saturday day, and Saturday night." That's only ONE day and TWO nights.

I calculated EVERY CONCEIVABLE way possible to have Christ resurrected early Sunday morning while it was just beginning to dawn, and yet, go backwards "three NIGHTS and three DAYS" and arrive a time and day that would fit all of the other statements regarding the crucifixion, burial, and resurrection--the Passover preparation day, the hurrying to bury Christ because of impending weekly Sabbath, that that Sabbath that year was "an high or holy" day in addition to being the weekly sabbath, etc., etc.

Anyway, I found that IT CANNOT BE DONE!  IT WON'T FIT! No matter how anyone configures the Passover, Days of Unleavened Bread, weekly Sabbath, etc., IT CANNOT BE DONE--it will not fit. I spent hours and hours just on the Scripture in Luke's account where the men going to Emmaus were accosted by our Lord, and one of them remarked, "And beside all this, TO DAY IS THE THIRD DAY since these things were done" (Luke 24:21). But I found one translation that said, "Besides all this, IT HAS ALREADY BEEN THREE DAYS since these things were done."  I thought I was really on to something here. NOT!

I obviously prayed to God to give me understanding. After one of my intense sessions with the Scriptures regarding this matter, I went to the kitchen for a drink, and while on my way God turned on a light bulb in my spirit. I had FAILED MYSELF TO DO WHAT I HAVE BEEN TEACHING OTHERS.  I was thrilled with the answer--God gave me the answer.

I called Michael, and informed him that "he was RIGHT after all."  By combining ALL of the Scriptural statements regarding Christ's crucifixion, He HAD to be buried on Friday evening and raised Sunday morning! And Michael was delighted to know that he was right after all. But my next statement floored him. I then told Michael that I WAS RIGHT ALSO. THAT JESUS CHRIST REALLY WAS THREE DAYS AND THREE NIGHTS IN THE HEART OF THE EARTH!

Well, Michael was now bewildered--HOW CAN THAT BE, THAT'S A CONTRADICTION!  I told him that it is no contradiction, we were both right and we were both wrong. Jesus Christ was buried Friday evening and rose Sunday morning, and yet, was also "three days and three nights in the heart of the earth."

Two things I neglected to follow: 

Jesus Christ ALWAYS, ALWAYS spoke to the multitudes in public in PARABLES. Parables are not LITERAL, neither do they lie. I neglected to treat this teaching of Jesus as a "parable."

It NOWHERE SAYS that Jesus would be "DEAD for three days and three nights." I just ASSUMED that is what was meant by the phrase "in the HEART OF THE EARTH."

I'll just give you the gist of the answer, as my time is limited right now. Jesus called "three days and three nights in the HEART OF THE EARTH," "the SIGN of Jonah."  Now then, if Christ was to be DEAD for the exact period of TIME of three days and three nights, How then could that be "the sign of Jonah?" JONAH WAS NOT DEAD AT ALL!!! Jonah went through 'A LIVING HELL' if you will! Besides, Jesus was NOT buried in the "HEART" of the earth, He was buried in an ABOVE THE EARTH TOMB! Maybe twenty inches or so on the other side of a big stone. 

"In the HEART OF THE EARTH" is a parable showing the unbelievable agony of the human spirit and flesh that Jesus would go through LEADING UP TO and INCLUDING the time in the tomb. And those three days began on the PREPARATION FOR THE PASSOVER (John 19:14), seeing that Jesus, HIMSELF, was to BE THE PASSOVER!!!

And don't forget the AGONY IN THE GARDEN when Jesus SWEAT BLOOD!! No one will ever know what torture He endured those "three days and three nights in the HEART OF THE EARTH." BEFORE the beatings and crucifixion we read this: 

"NOW is My SOUL TROUBLED [Greek: DISTRESSED, IN TURMOIL!]; and what shall I say? Father, save Me from this hour: but for his cause came I unto THIS HOUR" (John 23:27).

The "heart of the earth" is the very DEPTH OF THE FLESH. The flesh of man is "of the EARTH, EARTHY" Paul tells us.

Again, thank you for your keen observation.


http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,1057.0.html ------

Jesus NEVER said that He would be "buried" for three days and three nights. He said He would be "In the heart of the earth" for three days and three nights. He did not say that he would be "burried" for that time, or even "dead" for that time. Remember this is "the sign of JONAH."  WAS JONAH D-E-A-D?
v
Jesus did not say He would be DEAD for three days and three nights.  Jesus did NOT say that He would be BURIED in a tomb for three days and three nights. You can say that if you want to, but you know that it is unscriptural.  Jesus did not say that as Jonah was in the belly of the fish for three days and three nights, so He would also be in the belly of a fish for three days and three nights.  You still don't get It's a PARABLE (Matt. 13:34)?

Are the three days and three nights of Jonah being compared with the three days and three nights of Jesus?  NO!  No, that is not the point of comparison. You are totally, totally missing it.  Here is the point of comparison:

Jonah:  "AS... Jonas was three days and three nights IN THE WHALE'S BELLY,
Jesus:  SO... shall the Son of man be three days and three nights IN THE HEART OF THE EARTH."

There is your "comparison."
There is your "sign."
There is you "parable."

AS "in the whale's belly," SO "in the heart of the earth."

But you still don't know what this "parables" means, do you? For you have not a clue as to what "in the heart of the earth means." 
v
You know as well as I (or maybe you don't, but now you do) that you need a SECOND WITNESS to establish any spiritual truth.  I gave you that second witness, but you didn't even get it because you are still thinking carnal and physical and literal, and that kind of thinking will never explain a parable, as parables are only "SPIRITUALLY discerned."

The second Scripture that is a Second Witness to "heart of the earth" is "Now that He ascended [which He did], what is it but that He also descended first into the LOWER [DEPTH, LOWER, UNDER, LOWEST LEVEL, etc.] parts of the earth?" (Eph. 4:9).  There it is. There  is the second witness.  But you still don't know what this parable is. The "heart [depth] of the earth" IS the parable.


http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,5266.0.html ----------

Dear Eric: No, I am not "having difficulty distinguishing this time-line." I know from the Scriptures when Jesus was buried and when He was resurrected. Your theory is, however, not Scripturally correct. Most of them have used your Wednesday evening crucifixion/Thursday was a Holy Day theory. I will just give you a couple of problems with this theory:             

    [1]  Jesus never said He would be "DEAD for three days and three nights." Most everyone who tries to solve this problem make that unscriptural assumption. Jesus said He would be "three days and three night IN THE HEART OF THE EARTH."  Remember this is the "sign of Jonah," and Jonah was NOT DEAD AT ALL, not even for one day.

    [2]  You state: "that the bodies should not remain upon the cross on the Sabbath day, (for that day was an high day)...."  Meaning to you that that day "Thursday" was an high day."  Not so. Let's read  Joh 19:31 "The Jews therefore, because it was the preparation, that the bodies should not remain upon the cross on the sabbath day, (for that sabbath day was an high day,)...."  Ah, did you catch that?  It doesn't say that "that day was an high day," does it?  No, it says "for THAT SABBATH DAY was an high day."  Big difference. There is your Scriptural answers. THAT SABBATH DAY [Saturday] was ALSO (in addition to being the weekly Sabbath day), was ALSO an high day. It is redundant and meaningless to suggest that "that Sabbath day was a Sabbath day" or "that high day was an high day). No, it was that SATURDAY, 7TH DAY, SABBATH DAY was ALSO an high day.  Your Thursday high day theory falls flat.

    [3]  After the resurrection early Sunday morning, word went out the Jesus was taken from the tomb. Two of Jesus' disciples felt that they had been let down. They headed for Emmaus. On the road Jesus met up with them (this was LATE Sunday afternoon), but He didn't makes His identity known. He asked the two men why they were so unhappy.  They informed Jesus that the One they though was the Messiah was gone. They explained to Jesus... "how  the chief priests and our ruler DELIVERED HIM TO BE CONDEMNED TO DEATH AND HAVE CRUCIFIED HIM. But we trusted that it had been He which should have redeemed Israel: and beside all this TODAY IS THE  T-H-I-R-D  DAY since these things [condemned to death and crucified] were done."

    Oops!  What have we here? From the day that Jesus was condemned and crucified until SUNDAY late afternoon was "THE third day." According to your theory, Wednesday was the day Jesus was "condemned to death and crucified." Now let's count: day one Wednesday; day two Thursday; day three Friday; day four Saturday; and day five Sunday.  Sunday afternoon would have had to be the FIFTH day according to you theory.

    Etc., etc.

    God be with you,
    Ray

[Gina]

Thanks, Kat!

[zvezda]

Here in this email, Ray said that Jesus would experience agony inside the tomb:

In the HEART OF THE EARTH" is a parable showing the unbelievable agony of the human spirit and flesh that Jesus would go through LEADING UP TO and INCLUDING the time in the tomb.

http://bible-truths.com/email6.htm#three

Hi Gina,  I don't think Ray said Jesus would experience agony inside the tomb, he just said the 3 days and 3 nights when He was "in the heard of the heart" included the time in the tomb.