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Author Topic: Job  (Read 11683 times)

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Rinus

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Job
« on: December 02, 2014, 04:59:08 AM »

Ola

From the book of Job--what EXACTLY did Job's friends speak that was wrong about God?

God in the end does say:'I am angry with u(Eliphaz) and ur two friends,because you have not spoken of me what is right,as my servant Job has...'(Job 42:7)
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Extol

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Re: Job
« Reply #1 on: December 02, 2014, 10:09:35 AM »

They insisted God was punishing Job, when He was really testing him.

Excerpt from Ray:

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,9330.msg118938.html#msg118938


This brings up another very important subject.  When many believers find themselves in trials and hardships, they often feel that they must be doing something wrong, and that God is not please with them--maybe you believe God is even punishing you for your sins. Let me tell you something:  in all these trials that I am personally going though the last couple of years, I have never once felt that God is punishing me for my sins. Let's not forget the lesson of Job.  God did not assign Satan to crush Job with horrible diseases because God wanted to get Job to repent of his sins. God was not punishing Job, He was TESTING Job, and guess what?  Job passed the
test.  God did not tell Eliphaz to sacrifice seven bullocks and seven rams for Job's sins, or for Job's short-comings, no, God told him to sacrifice them for the sins of himself and his two friends.  The three of them condemned Job for doing wrong, when they could not point to one single wrong that Job committed. Job said to God: "Thou knowest that I am NOT WICKED; and there is none that can deliver out of Thine hand" (Job 10:7).  Furthermore, God Himself stated that Job was "...a perfect and an upright man, one that fears God and suns evil" (Job 1:8 ).
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Rinus

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Re: Job
« Reply #2 on: December 02, 2014, 04:52:15 PM »

I think there's more to the book of Job than meets the eye.

Did u notice that Job had 3 friends AND 1 other young man with him?The young man(Elihu) was the last to speak.Apparently,God uses a young man to rebuke Job.Kinda like God sending a 17yr old Boxer to humble Floyd Mayweather's arrogance!

Notice how God is angry with Job's 3 friends,except the young man.what about the young man?Did the young man speak what is right?

Some of the things Job is accused of by the young man are,"justifying himself rather than God."(Job 32:2)

The young man also accuses Job of being innocent in his own eyes.(Job 33:9 and 34:5)

The young man also accuses Job of being unequally yoked.(Job 34:8)

And this is a BIG one,at least according to the NIV, and I quote:"Beware of turning to evil,which you(Job) SEEM to PREFER to affliction."(Job 36:21)-Those are the words of the young man to Job,interesting hey?Looks like Job was not as innocent as he thought he was.Only God can say Job is "blameless and upright," not man justify himself before God.

Anyway,interesting story this book of Job.I was interested in what EXACTLY(quote them) did Job's friends speak that was not right about God.They clearly said something abt God which was wrong coz God says so,"You have not spoken of ME(GOD) what is right,as my servant Job has."
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Kat

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Re: Job
« Reply #3 on: December 03, 2014, 09:24:26 PM »


Hi Rinus,

Job's argument had been that all mankind was dealt out good and evil in this life and God was not a respecter of persons, whether they were good or bad, in doing so. That bad people sometimes can and do prosper in this life, while it was not always that way for good people. And that the reward and punishment was in the next life, yet to come. Now his fault may have been that he came across as a bit arrogant and self-righteous and God called him on that, but said what he had spoken was right and called Job His servant.

Now these friends of Job's on the other hand were saying that God deals (rewarded or condemned) people 'in this life' according to their righteousness or wickedness and that God does not bring severe trials on good people and that the wicked were always punished now. And since Job was being so greatly afflicted, then God must consider him to be a bad person or he would never have had such sever trials.

Now God directly speaks to Eliphaz, perhaps because he was the eldest and the main spokesman, also the other 2 friends (Bildad and Zophar) as well, because they seemed to follow his lead, all speaking harshly to Job. But on the other hand Elihu was not mentioned, probably because he had kind of stayed out of condemning Job and just mediated. Now God was angry with them, stating what they were saying wrong things of God and Job. His friend were judging and condemning Job falsely and this provoked God anger/wrath on them... maybe a clue to His attitude in the next age, many similarities here.

It's interesting that God required that they go to Job, putting him in a position of superiority over them and they were to offer sacrifices to God. Another significant thing was that Job would pray for them... Job was called God's servant and he was justified by God and now was the mediator between God and these He had condemned. Maybe here Job is a type/symbol of Christ/elect in the next age.

So that is my brief and simple understanding, hope it is helpful.

mercy, peace and love
Kat
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John from Kentucky

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Re: Job
« Reply #4 on: December 03, 2014, 10:02:41 PM »

When God said Job was blameless and upright, He was speaking in a relative sense, comparing Job to other men.

Actually, in an absolute sense, Job was sinful and evil, as are all mankind; remember the Scriptures, "There are none righteous, no not one", and "All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God."

It is very important to understand the concept of relative and absolute in order to properly understand the Scriptures, which Ray discusses in his Lake of Fire articles.

What is interesting is that Satan couldn't find anything wrong with Job, which is one of Satan's main jobs--to find evil in mankind and eat the dust of the ground.

Actually God never says what was wrong with Job or his sins.

What God did was to compare Himself--God--to Job.

After Job listened to God, he understood and repented of his sins.  If Job were perfect, then there would have been no reason for him to repent.

I have heard of You by the hearing of the ear,
But now my eyes see You.
Therefore I abhor myself,
And repent in dust and ashes.
  Job 42:5-6
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Ian 155

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Re: Job
« Reply #5 on: December 04, 2014, 04:55:10 AM »

Portions of the 'Book "represent" Christ,Portions of the book represent the Scribes,The pharisees,portions represent betrayal.

Good news is they were all reconciled to the Father thru "Job"

This is spiritual reckoning

Forsaking all(trials)and "loss" ,temptations ("why not curse God"),given "Eyes" to see(repentance)

In all of these trials and temptations - "Job sinned not" 

there is an afrikaans saying "Dood het n oorsaak" - direct - death has a reason
Rather "there must be a reason for everything"

there was a "reason" for Jobs trials, he was being called,refined and elected - Just like we are

The friends had a "carnal" understanding of God
« Last Edit: December 04, 2014, 06:24:18 AM by Ian 155 »
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Rene

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Re: Job
« Reply #6 on: December 04, 2014, 11:55:54 AM »


there was a "reason" for Jobs trials, he was being called,refined and elected - Just like we are


None of the Old Testament prophets, or men of faith, including Job, will be in the 1st resurrection.  This promise was reserved only for those who came after Christ.

Here is scriptural proof and where Ray taught on this:

http://bible-truths.com/twelve.htm

"But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear. For verily I say unto you, that many prophets and righteous men [all the patriarchs of the Old Testament] have desired to see those things which you see, and have NOT seen them, and to hear those things which you hear, and have NOT heard them" (Matt. 13:16-17).

I doubt that many of my readers are comprehending the marvelous truths contained in the above passages. The prophets THEMSELVES (even Isaiah himself), desired to see these things, but did NOT see them. All of the Apostles and New Testament writers understood that the patriarchs of old including the prophets themselves, did not understand their own prophesies, therefore they were not converted, and they are not saved. These things are for those who come after Christ, not before:

"Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto YOU [not unto them!]: Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the suffering of Christ, and the glory that should follow [not come BEFORE, in their day and time].

"Unto whom it was revealed, that NOT unto themselves, but unto US they did minister [‘for OUR admonition upon whom the ends of the ages are come, I Cor. 10:11] the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Spirit sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into. Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto YOU at the revelation of Jesus Christ" (I Pet. 1:10-13).

Therefore I repeat once more:

"And these all [all the saints and all the prophets, Ver. 32], having obtained a good report through faith, received NOT the promise: God having provided some better thing FOR US, that they without US should NOT be made perfect [be saved]" (Heb. 11:39-40).


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indianabob

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Re: Job
« Reply #7 on: December 04, 2014, 10:25:38 PM »

Well stated Rene,
The reward of those of old is similar I think to that of Abraham which is places of authority in the physical Kingdom in the physical resurrection here on earth, where they too will be taught righteousness.

Would that apply to John the Baptist and the 12 apostles as well?

Indiana Bob
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John from Kentucky

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Re: Job
« Reply #8 on: December 04, 2014, 11:18:26 PM »

Well stated Rene,
The reward of those of old is similar I think to that of Abraham which is places of authority in the physical Kingdom in the physical resurrection here on earth, where they too will be taught righteousness.

Would that apply to John the Baptist and the 12 apostles as well?

Indiana Bob


I-Bob,

I don't think you are understanding the Scriptures quoted by Rene.

None of the Old Testament figures will be in the 1st Resurrection, including Abraham, David, and all the rest, nor will John the Baptist.  They died before Jesus' Passover sacrifice and His Resurrection, nor did any of them receive the Holy Spirit dwelling within them as started on the Day of Pentecost.

There will be no physical Kingdom.  The government will consist of Jesus and His called and chosen who will be born again at the 1st Resurrection.  There will be no government other than Jesus and His saints.  They will rule on the Earth.

Everything hinges on Jesus.  None of the others are important.  Jesus is the Way, the Truth, and the Life.  Grace and Truth came by Jesus.  The government will be upon His shoulders.  The Elect will serve and assist Jesus.  Jesus is the Teacher.  Jesus is the Great King.  No opposition will be allowed.  All will eventually be saved but only through Jesus.
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lilitalienboi16

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Re: Job
« Reply #9 on: December 05, 2014, 03:42:41 AM »

Well stated Rene,
The reward of those of old is similar I think to that of Abraham which is places of authority in the physical Kingdom in the physical resurrection here on earth, where they too will be taught righteousness.

Would that apply to John the Baptist and the 12 apostles as well?

Indiana Bob



I-Bob,

I don't think you are understanding the Scriptures quoted by Rene.

None of the Old Testament figures will be in the 1st Resurrection, including Abraham, David, and all the rest, nor will John the Baptist.  They died before Jesus' Passover sacrifice and His Resurrection, nor did any of them receive the Holy Spirit dwelling within them as started on the Day of Pentecost.

There will be no physical Kingdom.  The government will consist of Jesus and His called and chosen who will be born again at the 1st Resurrection.  There will be no government other than Jesus and His saints.  They will rule on the Earth.

Everything hinges on Jesus.  None of the others are important.  Jesus is the Way, the Truth, and the Life.  Grace and Truth came by Jesus.  The government will be upon His shoulders.  The Elect will serve and assist Jesus.  Jesus is the Teacher.  Jesus is the Great King.  No opposition will be allowed.  All will eventually be saved but only through Jesus.

Hi John,

I don't think bob was saying that abraham will be raised spiritual. He specifically mentions that abraham will be raised physical in his post. The "first ressurection" is the ressurection consisting of the elect who we know are raised spiritual like Christ was.

Revelation 20:6 "Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years."

Your post sounds like you're saying there is more than one but I don't think you were trying to say that.

Rev. 20:5 "But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished*" is spurious. We can disregard this.

There is only one Resurrection.

1 Corinthians 15:20-28
20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

Also, I take contention with the "there will be no physical kingdom." While Christ and the elect will be spiritual, the rest of the dead will not be. They will be raised to physical bodies

Ezekiel 37:3 And he said to me, “Son of man, can these bones live?” And I answered, “O Lord God, you know.”

Ezekiel 37:7-10 "So I prophesied as I was commanded. And as I prophesied, there was a sound, and behold, a rattling, and the bones came together, bone to its bone. And I looked, and behold, there were sinews on them, and flesh had come upon them, and skin had covered them. But there was no breath in them. 9 Then he said to me, “Prophesy to the breath; prophesy, son of man, and say to the breath, Thus says the Lord God: Come from the four winds, O breath, and breathe on these slain, that they may live.” o I prophesied as he commanded me, and the breath came into them, and they lived and stood on their feet, an exceedingly great army."

 I don't think bob was saying that there will be a "phsyical kingdom" in the sense that it will be a kingdom of men, run by men, etc... there will only be Jesus who will eventually give up all authority to His father. Yes there will be no opposition.

God bless,
Alex
« Last Edit: December 05, 2014, 03:46:51 AM by lilitalienboi16 »
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1 Cor 1:10 "Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment."

Ian 155

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Re: Job
« Reply #10 on: December 05, 2014, 06:05:14 AM »

I have gathered from Rays understanding and believe the whole "book" we call the "bible" is Gods testimony of his Son, it is also a parable which needs an intervention in order to understand.... and since he, Jesus, is our elder brother this giant parable applies to you and I.

But as far as the testimony of Ray or Ian or John or anyone else goes, ...

the testimony of God is greater, because this (what we call bible) is the testimony of God that He hath testified concerning His Son.

1Jn 5:10  He who is believing in the Son of God, hath the testimony in himself; he who is not believing God, a liar hath made Him, because he hath not believed in the testimony that God hath testified concerning His Son;

We have Heb 13 v 8, enforcing no change in how Jesus is represented spiritually throughout the word.

AS FAR AS THE WORD OF GOD

Pharoah at stages was in the place of God or represented God
Moses In the place of Christ
David in the place of God
Solomon in the place of Christ
Isaac,jacob,Joseph,Sampson,job,Boaz,Ruth and ALL the other characters testify to Christ in terms of the parable

Charlie Brown certainly was written on 2 levels some see Christ as all in all and some don't ,yet

No one is saying these characters (vessels) God is using are saved ....It does not make a difference ,the testimony alludes to process... the apostles found the truth in the old "book" they saw the "fulfilment" in the prophecies - if one cant see how all these "characters" are restored to God then I guess thats another topic, for another day

One can speak LIFE from the Grave, all these vessels ignoble and noble, that are "dead" AWAITING SALVATION including Job are still testifying today.And although "DEAD" they speak .

These 1st "examples" all point to Christ and we all know the 1st shall be last and the last 1st except .....in the case of our elder brother as he is not only the 1st  he is also the last

Is  Job "in the place" of Christ from the parable? And do his friends represent the scribe and Pharisee and carnal thinking creatures?. "Saved" or "unsaved"
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Kat

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Re: Job
« Reply #11 on: December 05, 2014, 11:20:38 AM »


Hi Bob,

The resurrection and ascension of Christ was the pivotal point from which the Holy Spirit of Christ was given.

John 16:7  But I tell you the truth, it is expedient for you that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Comforter will not come to you. But if I depart, I will send Him to you.

John 15:26  "But when the Helper comes, whom I shall send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth who proceeds from the Father, He will testify of Me.

John 14:25  "These things I have spoken to you while being present with you.
v. 26  But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you.

As JFK said not even John the Baptist will be in the first resurrection.

Luke 7:28  For I say to you, Among those who are born of woman there is not a greater prophet than John the Baptist. But he who is least in the kingdom of God is greater than he.

No one is saying these characters (vessels) God is using are saved ....It does not make a difference ,the testimony alludes to process... the apostles found the truth in the old "book" they saw the "fulfilment" in the prophecies - if one cant see how all these "characters" are restored to God then I guess thats another topic, for another day

I guess it's comments like that in bold that are confusing in what you are saying. How can they be "restored to God," as in already? They served the OT God the best they could to their grave, they never left God. They will be raised up and brought to know and serve Christ Jesus and that aspect of God only came to be when He was born in the flesh... that was way after they were dead, they never knew Him. When they are raised up in the resurrection of the dead they will be very willing and ready to come to know and serve the Messiah they never knew.

The book of Job is a poem where God addresses the suffering of the righteous... it seems likely that Job's story, like the story of the beggar and the rich man are parables and not about real people.

Also, I take contention with the "there will be no physical kingdom." While Christ and the elect will be spiritual, the rest of the dead will not be. They will be raised to physical bodies

Ezekiel 37:3 And he said to me, “Son of man, can these bones live?” And I answered, “O Lord God, you know.”

Ezekiel 37:7-10 "So I prophesied as I was commanded. And as I prophesied, there was a sound, and behold, a rattling, and the bones came together, bone to its bone. And I looked, and behold, there were sinews on them, and flesh had come upon them, and skin had covered them. But there was no breath in them. 9 Then he said to me, “Prophesy to the breath; prophesy, son of man, and say to the breath, Thus says the Lord God: Come from the four winds, O breath, and breathe on these slain, that they may live.” o I prophesied as he commanded me, and the breath came into them, and they lived and stood on their feet, an exceedingly great army."

 I don't think bob was saying that there will be a "phsyical kingdom" in the sense that it will be a kingdom of men, run by men, etc... there will only be Jesus who will eventually give up all authority to His father. Yes there will be no opposition.

Yes the kingdom will come "down out of heaven from God" (Rev 21:2), it will rule over the world/earth... but surely we don't think the elect will be doing all the daily mundane tasks required in ruling? There have been numerous people throughout history that have been noble, as far as a carnal person can be, but the Scripture does speaks of some of them... they won't be just sitting around twiddling their thumbs after they have been raised back up. These were great men/women of God in their time and they will be put to good use. A couple more Scripture to go along with what Alex is saying here.

Mat 8:11  And I say to you that many will come from east and west, and sit down with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven.

Luke 13:25  When once the Master of the house has risen up and shut the door, and you begin to stand outside and knock at the door, saying, 'Lord, Lord, open for us,' and He will answer and say to you, 'I do not know you, where you are from,'
v. 26  then you will begin to say, 'We ate and drank in Your presence, and You taught in our streets.'
v. 27  But He will say, 'I tell you I do not know you, where you are from. Depart from Me, all you workers of iniquity.'
v. 28  There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when you see Abraham and Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God, and yourselves thrust out.
v. 29  They will come from the east and the west, from the north and the south, and sit down in the kingdom of God.
v. 30  And indeed there are last who will be first, and there are first who will be last."

mercy, peace and love
Kat
« Last Edit: December 05, 2014, 11:37:31 AM by Kat »
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John from Kentucky

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Re: Job
« Reply #12 on: December 05, 2014, 12:26:34 PM »

"The book of Job is a poem where God addresses the suffering of the righteous... it seems likely that Job's story, like the story of the beggar and the rich man are parables and not about real people."

Cool Kat.  I'm not the only one!  God gave me the understanding a couple of years ago regarding your above comment.

Most likely the Book of Job is a parable.  It is just not in the New Testament that God used parables to hide His teachings from the Many and reveal them to the few.

The first clue I had that the Book of Job was not literal was the description of the animals he owned.  They are listed to the nearest thousand and hundred.  That is not literal because animals do not reproduce to the nearest thousand or hundred.

Also the Book of Job starts off similar to the parable of Lazarus.

Also the Hebrew in that book is very, very old.  It could possibly be the first book of the Old Testament in terms of age, possibly written before Moses.
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Ian 155

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Re: Job
« Reply #13 on: December 05, 2014, 12:28:26 PM »

I should take lessons in writing perhaps....

What is meant is

This is the process leading to salvation or a simile of how one is saved,these characters are used to show us in the form of a parable.

So the way the 'character' Job,  is eventually saved and exalted is what will happen to everyone,no favourites no exceptions


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lilitalienboi16

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Re: Job
« Reply #14 on: December 05, 2014, 12:35:09 PM »

Kat and John,

Ray mentions in "How we got the bible" that Job might have been a pharoe. Yet you both are saying Job is nothing more than a parable and therefor not literal? Do you both believe then that Job never really literally existed as taught by the scriptures?

What about "that which is first is not spiritual but natural" and "all these things happened unto them for our esample?"

Couldnt job literally have existed and exeperiencdd whhat he did yet also his story be a parable with great spiritual significance?

 
« Last Edit: December 05, 2014, 12:37:53 PM by lilitalienboi16 »
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1 Cor 1:10 "Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment."

indianabob

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Re: Job + the 12
« Reply #15 on: December 05, 2014, 02:58:12 PM »

Hi Kat,
Thanks for the detailed explanation, much appreciated.
An additional question then concerning the life and work of the 12 apostles when they are resurrected.

Please explain the time frame for the following prophesy to come to pass...
Will there not be a time when the 12 will be resurrected to mortal life and learn righteousness?
 
Since Christ and those of his body will be spirit, won't there be physical leaders, also representing Christ, living, breathing in the society around Jerusalem?
Are you dismissing the scriptures below as not applying to the future Kingdom of God on the earth?

Just curious, Thanks for your help, Indiana Bob

= = =

Matt 19:28 -->…27 Then Peter said to Him, "Behold, we have left everything and followed You; what then will there be for us?" 28 And Jesus said to them, "Truly I say to you, that you who have followed Me, in the regeneration when the Son of Man will sit on His glorious throne, you also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. 29"And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or children or farms for My name's sake, will receive many times as much, and will inherit eternal life.…


Luke 22:30
so that you may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom and sit on thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
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John from Kentucky

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Re: Job
« Reply #16 on: December 05, 2014, 02:58:44 PM »

Kat and John,

Ray mentions in "How we got the bible" that Job might have been a pharoe. Yet you both are saying Job is nothing more than a parable and therefor not literal? Do you both believe then that Job never really literally existed as taught by the scriptures?

What about "that which is first is not spiritual but natural" and "all these things happened unto them for our esample?"

Couldnt job literally have existed and exeperiencdd whhat he did yet also his story be a parable with great spiritual significance?

 

Alex,

I had an emotional response to Kat's statement.  Her statement agreed exactly with my previous meditations on the Book of Job.  It is a lonely way we walk.  I got all giddy when someone had the same thoughts as myself on the Scriptures.

I didn't want to discuss this insight before, nor do I want to discuss now, because of the no teaching rule on the Forum.  What do I know?  I'm an accountant.

Also, this issue seems to concern you somewhat.  I don't want to turn you from your own beliefs.  Jesus is working with His jewels on an individual basis.  Everyone is at different stages of understanding.

Besides, I am not absolutely certain that it is a parable.  I believe that it is.  But I recognize the possibility it could be literal.

However, the most important thing is not whether the Book of Job is literal or a parable.

The most important things are the spiritual truths that this book teaches.  The Book of Job teaches Great spiritual truths, real big, fundamental truths.  That is the importance of the book.
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lilitalienboi16

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Re: Job
« Reply #17 on: December 05, 2014, 03:11:38 PM »

Kat and John,

Ray mentions in "How we got the bible" that Job might have been a pharoe. Yet you both are saying Job is nothing more than a parable and therefor not literal? Do you both believe then that Job never really literally existed as taught by the scriptures?

What about "that which is first is not spiritual but natural" and "all these things happened unto them for our esample?"

Couldnt job literally have existed and exeperiencdd whhat he did yet also his story be a parable with great spiritual significance?

 

Alex,

I had an emotional response to Kat's statement.  Her statement agreed exactly with my previous meditations on the Book of Job.  It is a lonely way we walk.  I got all giddy when someone had the same thoughts as myself on the Scriptures.

I didn't want to discuss this insight before, nor do I want to discuss now, because of the no teaching rule on the Forum.  What do I know?  I'm an accountant.

Also, this issue seems to concern you somewhat.  I don't want to turn you from your own beliefs.  Jesus is working with His jewels on an individual basis.  Everyone is at different stages of understanding.

Besides, I am not absolutely certain that it is a parable.  I believe that it is.  But I recognize the possibility it could be literal.

However, the most important thing is not whether the Book of Job is literal or a parable.

The most important things are the spiritual truths that this book teaches.  The Book of Job teaches Great spiritual truths, real big, fundamental truths.  That is the importance of the book.

Cool. Thank you for the honesty John. I agree completely that it is the spiritual truths that are of greatest importance in our walk.

I agree with all of it!

God bless,
Alex
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1 Cor 1:10 "Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment."

John from Kentucky

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Re: Job + the 12
« Reply #18 on: December 05, 2014, 03:15:07 PM »

Hi Kat,
Thanks for the detailed explanation, much appreciated.
An additional question then concerning the life and work of the 12 apostles when they are resurrected.

Please explain the time frame for the following prophesy to come to pass...
Will there not be a time when the 12 will be resurrected to mortal life and learn righteousness?
 
Since Christ and those of his body will be spirit, won't there be physical leaders, also representing Christ, living, breathing in the society around Jerusalem?
Are you dismissing the scriptures below as not applying to the future Kingdom of God on the earth?

Just curious, Thanks for your help, Indiana Bob

= = =

Matt 19:28 -->…27 Then Peter said to Him, "Behold, we have left everything and followed You; what then will there be for us?" 28 And Jesus said to them, "Truly I say to you, that you who have followed Me, in the regeneration when the Son of Man will sit on His glorious throne, you also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. 29"And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or children or farms for My name's sake, will receive many times as much, and will inherit eternal life.…


Luke 22:30
so that you may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom and sit on thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

I-Bob,

The reason for my original response to you and my current response is I detect certain beliefs of the Concordant Publishing Concern in your questions.

They believe in two gospels--one for Peter and the Jewish apostles and converts---and one for Paul and the gentile converts.  In fact they falsely believe in about two of everything, which Ray exposes in his writings.

Can you say whether or not you believe in those Concordant Publishing teachings?

Besides, Judas will not be with the 12 original Apostles.  He died without the Spirit of God within him.  He was not there on Pentecost.  Apparently, the 11 faithful original Apostles will be in the 1st Resurrection with Jesus, and rule with Jesus, on the Earth.

I detect something not quite right and forthcoming in your questions.  Am I right or wrong?

John
« Last Edit: December 05, 2014, 03:17:08 PM by John from Kentucky »
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Kat

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Re: Job + the 12
« Reply #19 on: December 05, 2014, 04:44:24 PM »

Hi Kat,
Thanks for the detailed explanation, much appreciated.
An additional question then concerning the life and work of the 12 apostles when they are resurrected.

Please explain the time frame for the following prophesy to come to pass...
Will there not be a time when the 12 will be resurrected to mortal life and learn righteousness?
 
Since Christ and those of his body will be spirit, won't there be physical leaders, also representing Christ, living, breathing in the society around Jerusalem?
Are you dismissing the scriptures below as not applying to the future Kingdom of God on the earth?

Just curious, Thanks for your help, Indiana Bob

= = =

Matt 19:28 -->…27 Then Peter said to Him, "Behold, we have left everything and followed You; what then will there be for us?" 28 And Jesus said to them, "Truly I say to you, that you who have followed Me, in the regeneration when the Son of Man will sit on His glorious throne, you also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. 29"And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or children or farms for My name's sake, will receive many times as much, and will inherit eternal life.…

Luke 22:30
so that you may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom and sit on thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

Bob, the Apostles were among the very first to recieve the Holy Spirit after Christ went back to the Father. They lived the rest of their lives proving themselves to be servants of Christ to the point that most of them literally gave there life for their beliefs, martyrs. They died in faith and will most certainly be in the first resurrection. They will be raised in glorious spiritual body, and be one with God. The thrones they will sit on are symbolic of the power and authority of Christ they will rule with, it's not literal, and all the elect will have thrones as well.

Rev 20:4  And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for afn thousand years.

The elect having spiritual bodies will give them a great advantage in ruling, think of Christ after His resurrection, He met with the disciples and even ate with them. Christ and the elect will be the spiritual leaders ruling the world and I feel it will be a hands on type rulership. Those raised physically would certainly have many ways to serve as well, as there will be much work to be done physically re-organizing every aspect of society.

Hope that is helpful.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

P.S. Alex I agree with what JFK said about Job being a poem/parable.
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