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[lderr]

As the title implies, I'm curious what you, a bible-truths.forum denizen, do differently since you read the writings of one L. Ray Smith? 
I assume that you accept as true all (or most) of what he wrote and that these writings were news to you. 

How has it changed your daily life? 

Your outlook on the world?

Your concept of God? 


I'll post my own answers to these questions in a few days.

[octoberose]

Good Morning Lewis.
 I just have to try to answer this, even though I'm still on my first cup of morning coffee. 
 The simplest way to answer this is the past five years I have known Freedom and Ray was the first one to bring it to me. I had fervently prayed to understand God, who would destroy his creation because they did not believe in an INVISIBLE God and an ANCIENT book. And like most good believers, I didn't want hell to happen to me so I believed. And  I did truly have a heart for God and Jesus sacrifice which I hardly had words for. But that sacrifice seemed a double edged sword because it was sending most to 'outer darkness'. I just didn't get it. But I knew a couple of things I couldn't' rectify - I knew that "every knee shall bow", and I knew there was no hell in the old testament, and I knew that God is Love. So, I had hope but I had no understanding.
 As soon as I read Ray's writings, I knew this would change everything and the truths that I had prayed for. The first thing I read was his article on tithing. Then I went to the whole website and spend an evening reading. I'm not much of a scholar (ok, not one at all) and I'm only mildly intelligent, but when I see Truth I think God let's me recognize it pretty quickly and I was amazed.
 And it's not just about hell, it's who God truly is. And it's understanding the lie of free will that I had always believed but had not really understood how was it that God intervened in some lives and not in others? When did He violate someone's 'free will' and when did He not?
 How has it changed things? I love God more because HE is a Father and Creator that is truly deserving of our worship. I have compassion on people because it is really not there fault if God has not opened up their eyes yet. Ray said we'd all just be sinning machines without Him. I am hopeful of the future and not afraid of it. Lewis, my son is 'gay'. Without Ray, I'd be a basket case thinking he was going to hell. But I know that he will be called to account, and I know that he will be healed in the end of all his afflictions and that makes my life hopeful.
 And finally, rather then making me complacent that I'm "in" or "out" and there's nothing I can do about it, I am very well aware that I will be called to account for my actions and only what I do in Love will last. I take my life seriously now because it has consequences.  Before it was like a secret club that I had the password for so I could get in- and now I can hardly wait to be see Him and to be changed and to do whatever it is God has in store for me.
 Your question is a good one, because if this knowledge only brings information and not love, then it hasn't done the reader much good. Without love, we are a clanging gong or a clashing symbol and I hope what most of us have gained is more Love.

[indianabob]

Friend Rose,
Thank you for sharing your story.
I am encouraged by how you stated your spiritual journey. It is similar to mine except that I haven't put it into words as skillfully as you have.
It is good for friends to learn together and grow in love.
Warm regards, Indiana Bob

[Gina]

How has it changed your daily life? It's gotten much harder.  It is through MUCH tribulation that we must be entering into the Kingdom of God (not much joy).  I'm not afraid to speak up, but I'm conscious of the fact that I'm nobody, I have many major faults, and I am in need of major correction.  I don't try to pretend I'm someone I'm not.  I know that I am God's workmanship.  I don't want to hang out with unbelievers so much, but I don't hate them.  I pretty much stay to myself other than work where I'm alone most of the day, because I know Satan just hates these truths, and He wants to destroy me.  I don't even watch much TV or go to the movies anymore.

Your outlook on the world?    It's lost in confusion and deep darkness at the present.

Your concept of God?    Reference:  www.bible-truths.com.  That's my concept of God.  He's pure and truthful and just and loving and honorable, and diligent and steadfast and fair and patient and warm and fuzzy and funny and lovely and beautiful and most of all, God is faithful and generous.   He loves me very, very much, and protects me.  He's not afraid of anything.

And let me add this:  The thought that all that God is will be in ALL one day, just thrills me to tears!

[octoberose]

I had been thinking through the day that the one thing I didn't mention was that this has put a wedge between me and other believers who don't share our beliefs that Ray taught here and that we can see so plainly in His Word. My best friend thought I had gone round the bend, so to speak. I haven't had hardships or shunning because of it, but there is a difference and I no longer feel at one with believers who teach hell, free will, trinity, etc. But, that's ok- I'd rather God be pleased with me than man.

[Felix]

I don't have to worry about a tithe. I never knew exactly how much this was anyway.
I don't have to sing the same old songs.
I don't have to sit through boring mundane sermons.
I lost one of my very best friends.
I don't believe my country needs to go around the world killing people anymore.
I understand God more as spirit and not as a figure.

[lderr]

Thank you, rose, that's a good point: If this knowledge is only information and doesn't produce a change, then it didn't do much good.

[Dave in Tenn]

I simply AM different.  I 'do' everything differently because of that, though it is not perhaps blatantly obvious to folks outside 'me'.

I love more, hate less, am more 'optimistic', and less fearful.  I 'sin' less and enjoy it less when I do.  I test the gospel and find it more and more true.

I still lack the 'religious' bone and try not to take sides in other people's arguments.  I've got plenty to concern myself with without that.

I know for a fact that whatever I do or don't do, there are at least a few christians and possibly entire denominations who won't like it.  That's fine with me.   

[Farlsborough]

Where to start!
I trust God properly. Before, despite knowing with certainty that He existed, I had to get my head around the fact that He either took pleasure in the death of the wicked (unbiblical) or was helpless against the onslaught of "spiritual warfare" and had hands tied by satan, man's free will and so on. Now I know all things will be redeemed, judged with mercy and justice and perfect restitution made.

Speaking of satan, not that I particularly suffered with fear of the supernatural/demonic but I now see satan for who he is: formidable, yes, and not to be "messed with", but a necessary part of creation doing a necessary job, and in no way a competitor for God's omnipotence. So I am even further away from worrying that satan is going to "get me", and God is powerless to stop him.

I feel far less intimidated by theologians, having previously regarded them as amazing, clever people who reveal truths to God's people. I now see them as an extremely mixed back, with some undertaking useful study but many obscuring and complicating scripture whilst remaining spiritually blind themselves.

I feel far less enamoured with doctrines. As I recently heard someone say, "where there's a doctrine, there's an idol" and as Ray teaches, there are almost no problem-free doctrines within the church. I study to learn truth; all truth is God's truth and again, as Ray says, if something is true, the more you look into it the more it will show itself to be true (and vice versa). I'm therefore happy enough to be branded a heretic or whatever by those who love to bolt down immovable doctrines.

Finally, I have become a lot more forgiving and loving as I have realised that it really is only by God's grace that I have ended up seeking and following Jesus, and that the genetics and experiences and so on of others mean that, whilst they will be brought to account for their actions, they are ignoble vessels and I am fundamentally no better than them. When you accept that without grace you would/could be an axe murderer, drug dealer, predatory paedophile and so on, you can't really go round slamming people for where their "free will" has taken them.

[Extol]

Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.
Matthew 11:29-30

The biggest change for me has been the burden of eternal torment being lifted. The burden of guilt I would feel when thinking What if an unbelieving friend or co-worker dies tonight? I could have "witnessed" to him... Not to mention the thousands of unbelievers who die every day who were out of my "reach". And even though I was a "Christian," there was still the little voice in the back of my mind: What if I'm not good enough? Terrifying!

As far as what I "do" differently, I do less, not more. That is, I don't have set times to read the Bible, I don't go to church, I don't sing nearly as much (though my heart sings with much gladness), I don't "raise my hands", take "Communion", etc. Praying is way more fun now, because before, a great deal of my prayers were for dying people to cry out the name of the Lord with their dying breaths so they could be saved. Now, my prayers are filled with thanksgiving and confidence. It truly is a great comfort to know that God knows what He is doing.

[Mike Gagne]

Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.
Matthew 11:29-30

The biggest change for me has been the burden of eternal torment being lifted. The burden of guilt I would feel when thinking What if an unbelieving friend or co-worker dies tonight? I could have "witnessed" to him... Not to mention the thousands of unbelievers who die every day who were out of my "reach". And even though I was a "Christian," there was still the little voice in the back of my mind: What if I'm not good enough? Terrifying!

As far as what I "do" differently, I do less, not more. That is, I don't have set times to read the Bible, I don't go to church, I don't sing nearly as much (though my heart sings with much gladness), I don't "raise my hands", take "Communion", etc. Praying is way more fun now, because before, a great deal of my prayers were for dying people to cry out the name of the Lord with their dying breaths so they could be saved. Now, my prayers are filled with thanksgiving and confidence. It truly is a great comfort to know that God knows what He is doing.

that's says a lot ,so true. I do take rest in knowing it is God which worketh in me both to will and do of His good pleasure!!

[rick]

Thank you, rose, that's a good point: If this knowledge is only information and doesn't produce a change, then it didn't do much good.

There are no wasted moments or knowledge in God’s plan according to my understanding. The reason I say this is because not one of us including all of humanity does not have free will.

Whether one chooses to believe it or not, everyone is exactly where God intended that one to be, if the knowledge I have brings no change, was it a waste of time? God forbid, at the white throne judgement I’ll know what it is, why it is and its eventual outcome.

It’s an ongoing process we go through and only through hindsight can one begin to understand any change. Its about growing and this growth will continue until the coming of Christ on His 2nd return which then we shall be change completely and be as He is if this is God’s will for whomever.

If you are a new comer here, always remember your being here is no accident, if God is not calling someone in this age then that one will have no desire for God in this age at this point in time, that does not mean God will not call that one next month or next year.

One thing is for certain, your going to be saved whether you like it or not ( lol ) no one will be lost for all ages to come because every knee shall bow and every tongue will confess Christ is Lord. And it is God’s will that all be saved, does God’s will come to pass? Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven.   

[Kat]

Hi Rick, when I read this comment from Octoberose "because if this knowledge only brings information and not love, then it hasn't done the reader much good," I agree with Lewis this is a good point, that a believer's life needs to be about love.

Yes all will be saved, it is really great to have the knowledge that every single person will eventually be saved, but to leave off there is to miss out on the prize that Paul spoke of. The message of Christ Jesus and the gospel of the NT was that the kingdom - first resurrection, was now possible, is at hand through Christ Jesus.

Mark 1:14  Now after John was put in prison, Jesus came to Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God,
15  and saying, “The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand. Repent, and believe in the gospel.”

It is the kingdom (first resurrection) that without question is the greatest most glorious thing a human being could hope to obtain. Thought the number of elect are so few and it has already been determined by God who will be in the first resurrection, God wants us to desire this above all/every physical thing. That desire within us will overshadow everything else, that's how a believer knows... it feels like we are doing it, because the causes (though all of God) are too subtle to even notice that they are not our own. That's how the Spirit begins to turn our mind from carnal thinking to thinking like Christ.

Phl 2:5  Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus,

But every true believer will have no doubt where any righteous act/word/thought they do comes from, God's Spirit should be unmistakable when it is working in the believer.

Eph 2:4  But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us,
5  even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved),
6  and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus,

What I trying to say is that even though there is no free will, that should not exclude us from striving with great desire and hope of being in the first resurrection that's how God is doing it through us. Of course it is all in the hands of the sovereign God, though all we will actually sense is our own desire to do it.

Phl 2:13  for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure.

The whole church and all the other religions of the world believe that their god is the true God, many of them have a great desire for God, but all this will get them is the second resurrection to judgment in the Lake of fire.

Mat 15:8  ‘These people draw near to Me with their mouth, And honor Me with their lips, But their heart is far from Me.
9  And in vain they worship Me, Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’

Jesus taught the second resurrection was the broad way of destruction.

Matt 7:13  Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it.

We have the extraordinary experience of knowing one of God's elect and by Ray's meticulous teachings we have a great advantage that God gives us catered to our own time and language use... so to sit back and take comfort in the salvation of all and not seek with everything in us to be in the first resurrection is coming so close, yet missing the greatest of all prizes.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

[rick]

Hello Kat,

I’m not saying I disagree with Octoberose in that without change the reader has not benefitted in a way to enter in through the narrow gate. However its not the reader who appoints themselves as the elect but as you know, its God who determines who the elect will be.

As great an honor it is to be God’s elect the fact remains that it is Christ who is the author and finisher of our faith, even our faith is not of us but of Christ who gives to each accordingly as He determines.

My belief is that all will be saved but there is a qualifying factor in being saved , one must learn to do righteousness which is impossible without the direct intervention of God Himself.

My attitude is this, learn as much about God’s truths as He’ll allow us to learn and pray to God whatever truths we learn we can put into practice knowing that it is only by His grace we can overcome the world even as He has overcome the world.

There are no wasted moments or knowledge in God’s creation, everything in life is done according to the counsel of God and nothing in this life happens outside of the counsel of God  including ( if this knowledge only brings information and not love )

I don’t like to boast about any changes in my life because there is always some carnal thing in my life that keeps me humble but I do remain thankful for those changes God brought about but those changes are so insidious I don’t realize those changes to long after the fact.

I always believed in God, I cannot remember a time when I did not. To my shame I came to this site believing in the doctrine of demons which was taught to me by the Catholic faith I was brought up in which created in me a fear of what happens after death.

I just wanted to know the truth about Hell, is it real? That’s all I wanted to know. I cannot express the joy and comfort I experience after reading Ray’s writings on the subject although it took sometime to except this profound truth as truth.

I have unlearned many things from a previous teaching and learned accurate teachings from Ray’s writing. Well, I say that’s a start, at least I know God is not a monster but a God of pure love and mercy.

I don’t know if I’m one of Gods elect but I do know that Hell is a Christian hoax and whatever information I learned here by no means was a waste of time on my behalf because I discovered that God truly is Good and just knowing these two things takes the fear out of death I once had.

And it was that fear of death I had that caused me to come here in the first place, I asked God a question and God answered my question by leading me here , if God has more for me than what I came seeking then I would be very blessed. 

[lilitalienboi16]

And it was that fear of death I had that caused me to come here in the first place, I asked God a question and God answered my question by leading me here , if God has more for me than what I came seeking then I would be very blessed but you must understand I’m a sinner and don’t deserve to be God’s elect. 

http://www.bible-truths.com/lake13.html

THE SPIRITUAL SYMBOL OF THE SAND

I have already stated a dozen times or so in this paper that we must all "follow Christ." Peter puts it this way:

    "For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an EXAMPLE, that we should FOLLOW HIS STEPS: Who did NO SIN, neither was guile found in His mouth: Who, when he was reviled, reviled not again; when He suffered, He threatened not; but committed Himself to Him that judges righteously: Who His own self bare our sins in His own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto RIGHTEOUSNESS: by whose stripes ye were healed. For ye were as sheep going astray; but are now RETURNED unto the Shepherd and Bishop [overseer] of your souls"

Notice that we are all to follow His steps. But Jesus "did NO SIN," and we ALL sin. There is the giant difference. We have to KEEP WALKING in His steps until we STOP SINNING. But the point to be made here is, that we must and WILL "follow His steps."
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You're in good company rick. We are all sinners. Paul was the FOREMOST (Worste) sinner that ever lived! Yet Christ was able to transform him into His greatest champion!

1 Timothy 1:15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.

1 Corinthians 15:9 For I am the least of the apostles, that am not meet to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God.

Remember what Paul said:

Romans 7:14-25 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I. If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good. Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not. For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do. Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

God uses sorrow and this way of showing us who we are as a step towards transforming and renewing our minds:

2Co 7:9  Now I rejoice, not that ye were made sorry, but that ye sorrowed to repentance: for ye were made sorry after a godly manner, that ye might receive damage by us in nothing.
2Co 7:10  For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.

Romans 2:4 Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?

So... are we better than the rest of humanity? Nay. We are not any better than they for in our flesh dwells no good thing. All the honor and power and glory be to the Father and our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

Rom 3:9  What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;
Rom 3:10  As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
Rom 3:11  There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
Rom 3:12  They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

I Cor 9:24 Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain.

So then brethren and sisters, let us run. Run the race! I want everyone of us to make it to the finish line by the grace of God. To use the words of the of the king james: "I beseech thee...beloved."

God bless,
Alex

[rick]

Hello Alex,


[Ray Replies]

Dear New Friend!

Thank you for sharing you God-changing experience with us. I can say "ditto" to your whole message. We will do right when God decides that we will do right.


That’s what I’m talking about.

[Kat]

Hi Rick, I hope you do not consider that my comments are argumentative, as I can see your perspective, I'm trying to figure out a way to get across my own perspective. I think we all came here with a question or 2, I see that as a means that God used to initially stir us up to seek, but little did we know what He had in store for us once we got to BT. Maybe we cannot even recognize the Spirit indwelling at first, but it takes growth and maturity before it become more obvious.

This comment that you highlighted from Ray,  "We will do right when God decides that we will do right," that is so very true... but it is not like we are sitting around waiting for God to show/reveal to us what is the right thing for us to do... that almost seems to be what you are saying. It just seems to me that we have continued along in this life doing the best we can, and only now is it with the Spirit indwelling to help us and it's usually only later when we look back that we see where God has led us... but it's not until we understand the truth do we actually realize that God is working out everything in our life. But that the way it has been all of our life whether we knew it or not... God had already determined what parents we would be born to... God had already determined what our teenage years would be like... who we would marry... what job we would have... where we would live (for me it has been away from family and the friends I grew up with).

But everything that happened was the path we had to walk, BUT we didn't know what any of it would be, and I don't believe any of us ever stopped and waited for God to show us what to do next... no we seem to make our own decisions/choices that determined our lives. That exactly why free will is such an easy concept to believe. And so it is this way, though God is sovereign and totally in control, we just do not wait on God (pray without ceasing, yes of course) but God does not expect us to wait for a sign from Him or something like that. But He is certainly doing the work in us, but it's almost entirely without our being aware of what He is doing.

Maybe we are basically saying the same thing, but using a different way of saying it... and then again maybe all this discussion will help somebody else. It's just nice to be able to discuss these things in a civil manner with somebody like minded.

mercy, peace and love
Kat




 

[Gina]

Jesus said to strive (or struggle) to enter in through the strait gate.  Isn't that strait gate His rest?  Doesn't that require us to lay aside our own will which  takes great strength and a tremendous amount of effort? 

Isn't that why the many have no peace or rest day or night because they are attempting to do the impossible:  enter into their rest by pulling themselves up by their own bootstraps?

[rick]

Hi Kat,

I never viewed any of your comments towards me as argumentative but if anything, helpful. Its as you say, its so easy to believe in free will, isn’t it, you know, to come and go as we please and do what ever we want when ever we want, for we are our own gods declaring what will be.

In fact, it was this very illusion that is so deceptive of having free will that has cause me so much grief and bewilderment in my life.

When it comes to sin / sinning, I have found so much agony thinking there is something horribly wrong with me, why would anyone in their right mind believing in Hell and all that it entails ever sin even one sin? And no mater what I did or thought I could not use my free will to stop me from sinning and going to such a horrible place call Hell.

Today I know instinctively I do not have free will, its only a myth and nothing more, everything I’ve done in the course of my life, God was always behind it, whatever I done it was God’s intention for me to do including ever choice I made as well although God is responsible I remain accountable because I enjoyed every sin I sinned .

These days sin is more of a drag not so enjoyable, more like bondage if anything, wanting to walk away but getting entangled by it.

Whatever I’m doing is always God’s intention, I cannot elude God’s intention anymore than I could or can elude sin. Each day brings more hatred for this life I live, I don’t love my life, I find nothing desirable about my life anymore, its repulsive to me in that even death I could welcome with open arms.

I also know I must go through all this madness as disgusting as it is because its God’s intention for me, and all this I go through, I say nothing back to my God.

I don’t like to say I me mine much anymore, in fact I would like to not know me, I prefer to be someone else but then I would discover maybe they are worst off than me. You know the old saying ( better to live with the devil you know than the one you don’t )

Its not possible for anyone to sit back and do nothing unless its God’s intention but what’s the likelihood of that being the case.

 
What I understand is that God has me box in, if I look up God is there or down God is there or to the left or right God is there He is outside of me and in me but my five senses cannot detect God even though I am His workmanship.

I don’t think it possible to sit back because, (  To every thing there is a season and a time to every purpose under the heaven. )

[Ricky]

Rick, when I pretend to myself that I have Free Will, I sin less. And so I like that.