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"of" or "in"?
John from Kentucky:
Hi Kat,
I believe your understanding is not quite complete on this matter.
Busy day at work. Don't have much time or my study materials with me.
But I know you know the Scripture where Jesus stated that of Himself He could do nothing. And that it was the Father in Him that did all the works.
I believe Jesus.
Jesus was a human on the earth about 33 years. Before that He was the Almighty God. After His Resurrection He had all power in heaven and earth. But for those 33 years He had emptied Himself of all His powers. (See the Scripture in Philippians chapter 2)
Everything He did while in human form, all the miracles, were by God the Father. Read His prayer to the Father in John when He raised Lazarus back to life. The Father did that.
Ray agreed with my above statements. He wrote somewhere that it was the Father Who did all the works.
It is the lack of understanding of some of how Jesus was for those 33 years that makes some think there are two Gods: 1) a Father God and 2) a Jesus God.
The Scriptures teach there is only One God. In Col 1:15 we learn the invisible God is the Father and Jesus is the visible image of this One God. One God. The Father and Jesus are two sides of One God. But as Paul wrote, "not many know this."
I'm sure you moderators do not want to get that discussion going again, so I'll shut up. ;D ;D ;D But it is the Truth, it cannot be contained; I believe Jesus will teach the Elect the details in the next age. But a few now know the Truth.
Gina:
Is it possible you misunderstood Ray and the words of Jesus Christ?
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 He was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made through him, and without HIM was NOT any thing made that was made.
4 In HIM was life, and the life was the light of men.
14 The Word became flesh and made HIS dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory OF THE ONE AND ONLY SON, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.
17 But He answered them, "My Father is working until now, AND I Myself am working."
18 For this reason therefore the Jews were seeking all the more to kill Him, because He not only was breaking the Sabbath, but also was calling God His own Father, making Himself equal with God.
19 Therefore Jesus answered and was saying to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of Himself, UNLESS IT IS SOMETHING HE SEES THE FATHER DOING; for whatever the Father does, these things the Son ALSO does in like manner
Phil 2:6 Although he was in the form of God and EQUAL WITH GOD [how much clearer can it be said] , he did not take advantage of this equality
John from Kentucky:
--- Quote from: Gina on January 09, 2015, 02:11:25 PM ---Is it possible you misunderstood Ray and the words of Jesus Christ?
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 He was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made through him, and without HIM was NOT any thing made that was made.
4 In HIM was life, and the life was the light of men.
14 The Word became flesh and made HIS dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory OF THE ONE AND ONLY SON, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.
17 But He answered them, "My Father is working until now, AND I Myself am working."
18 For this reason therefore the Jews were seeking all the more to kill Him, because He not only was breaking the Sabbath, but also was calling God His own Father, making Himself equal with God.
19 Therefore Jesus answered and was saying to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of Himself, UNLESS IT IS SOMETHING HE SEES THE FATHER DOING; for whatever the Father does, these things the Son ALSO does in like manner
Phil 2:6 Although he was in the form of God and EQUAL WITH GOD [how much clearer can it be said] , he did not take advantage of this equality
--- End quote ---
No.
But if you quote Scripture, maybe you should read on: Philippians 2:7-8.
but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men.
Being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross.
Jesus was equal with God. He emptied Himself. Of what? Of being God. He became a man in order to die. As Ray brought out, a God cannot die or be killed. But a man can die.
This really is not hard to understand. As a man, everything Jesus did, He did not do Himself. As Jesus said, Of His own self, He could do nothing.
Water to wine; feeding 10 thousand people; healing people of their sicknesses; raising Lazarus from the dead;---all these things were not done by any inherent power in Jesus because He was a human man. It was the power of the Father that did all the works. Easy peasy. God 101.
Gina:
Furthermore:
Behold, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!
Was it the Father who took away the sin of the world, or is it the Son of the Father?
Behold, the Lamb of God [Jesus Christ] who takes away the sin of the world.
Jesus Christ, not the Father, was nailed to the cross.
It wasn't the Father who died on that cross and Who volunteered to be spit on and suffer terrorizing agony at the hands of wicked sinners.
It wasn't the Father who carried the cross.
It wasn't the Father who did that, it was Jesus Christ.
Jesus Christ, BY THE POWER OF the Holy Spirit which came from His Father, was actually the one who was doing all of what His Father commissioned Him to do.
Far be it from me to look Jesus Christ in the eyes and declare to his face that He didn't actually DO anything during His ministry or that He didn't voluntarily subject himself to die a horrible death on the cross, or is not my Redeemer, or that he didn't spill His OWN precious blood for my sins.
Gina:
I'm out of this thread, John. So help me God!
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