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Author Topic: cheerful  (Read 9754 times)

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bowlbyx

  • Guest
cheerful
« on: March 23, 2006, 12:52:08 AM »

i read this this morning.  I have heard many times, regarding the rich man and lazarus parable, that those in heaven will be watching those in torments, and rejoice.  This also brings to mind, when i was in church and heard the pastor bring up all of us who are "saved"  put us in a diffent catagory from the "unsaved sinners", and watched all them cheer.

Obadiah 11-15

11 In the day of thy standing over-against, In the day of strangers taking captive his force, And foreigners have entered his gates, And for Jerusalem have cast a lot, Even thou [art] as one of them!
12 And — thou dost not look on the day of thy brother, On the day of his alienation, Nor dost thou rejoice over sons of Judah, In the day of their destruction, Nor make great thy mouth in a day of distress.
13 Nor come into a gate of My people in a day of their calamity, Nor look, even thou, on its misfortune in a day of its calamity, Nor send forth against its force in a day of its calamity,
14 Nor stand by the breach to cut off its escaped, Nor deliver up its remnant in a day of distress.
15 For near [is] the day of Jehovah, on all the nations, As thou hast done, it is done to thee, Thy deed doth turn back on thine own head.
YLT
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Falconn003

  • Guest
cheerful
« Reply #1 on: March 23, 2006, 02:01:43 AM »

I have sat through some of the most wicked sermons from hagee and boy is it sicking watching the congregation just lap it all up.

there seems to be a hidden agenda in the people's heart who believe in hell, when i was young i had trouble understanding the concept of hell and it's purpose.

But to see cheers go up on the torments of others, these people who cheer are really seeing it and living it out in the hearts and minds now even.

And these same people wonder how people can be so cold as to shoot up a high school,  molest childern,  and cheat working people out of their hard earn income, and never once look in the mirror at themselves nor even recognizing the spirit of anti-christ that they are.


Rodger
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broken

  • Guest
Re: cheerful
« Reply #2 on: March 23, 2006, 02:28:37 AM »

Quote from: bowlbyx
i read this this morning.  I have heard many times, regarding the rich man and lazarus parable, that those in heaven will be watching those in torments, and rejoice.  This also brings to mind, when i was in church and heard the pastor bring up all of us who are "saved"  put us in a diffent catagory from the "unsaved sinners", and watched all them cheer.

Obadiah 11-15

11 In the day of thy standing over-against, In the day of strangers taking captive his force, And foreigners have entered his gates, And for Jerusalem have cast a lot, Even thou [art] as one of them!
12 And — thou dost not look on the day of thy brother, On the day of his alienation, Nor dost thou rejoice over sons of Judah, In the day of their destruction, Nor make great thy mouth in a day of distress.
13 Nor come into a gate of My people in a day of their calamity, Nor look, even thou, on its misfortune in a day of its calamity, Nor send forth against its force in a day of its calamity,
14 Nor stand by the breach to cut off its escaped, Nor deliver up its remnant in a day of distress.
15 For near [is] the day of Jehovah, on all the nations, As thou hast done, it is done to thee, Thy deed doth turn back on thine own head.
YLT


It breaks my heart that there are those out there who teach what you have described above.  God takes no pleasure in the destruction of the wicked, neither do the redeemed.  And the parable of Lazarus and the Rich Man says absolutely nothing of the righteous watching those "in hell" and rejoicing.  In fact, the parable has nothing to say about Heaven or Hell at all, even from the stance of one who believes in hell.

Brandon
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bowlbyx

  • Guest
cheerful
« Reply #3 on: March 23, 2006, 09:25:16 AM »

Quote
It breaks my heart that there are those out there who teach what you have described above. God takes no pleasure in the destruction of the wicked, neither do the redeemed. And the parable of Lazarus and the Rich Man says absolutely nothing of the righteous watching those "in hell" and rejoicing. In fact, the parable has nothing to say about Heaven or Hell at all, even from the stance of one who believes in hell.

Brandon


This is some of the reasons i began to question what is wrong with my church. Thank God for Ray and Mike.

david
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jerry cabral

  • Guest
Jaded
« Reply #4 on: March 23, 2006, 10:41:15 AM »

Seem a heart can show it self for those who dont believe in Hell.   To talk about Those people.  I wrote that satans job is to seperate and someone wrote that Jesus said the same thing.  I clarify.  I used to to to church to listen to man preach the word.  Now I listen to the word spoken by man.  I love always to go to any church with people speaking the word.  But if I start saying those people in which I have I shut out any anwsers.  Considering that the Kingdom of God is know.  Peace and Righeousness in ones Heart and Joy in the Holy Spirit.   But when I say those people Satan just did his job.  My Brothers or wait maybe I could pick who my brothers are.  Easy to believe in No Hell because We cant see it or would that take away from faith.  To strive to love my brother is to strive to love my God.  For if I can say I truly love my brother then I can say a truly Love God.  Not just the brothers I chose.  My heart in lies the Kingdom and the answers.  One why there wickedness as much is why there are poor.  Where evil lies and come on to start saying about the anti-christ.  John makes that perfectlly clear.   One question is all you need.    The Lord is in charge of everything.    There is a Hell of course one would have to Listen to The Lord except those who deny the Son, like saying He is the Creator or God for if You deny the Father You deny the Son and then You cant see the Fathers Glory(The Son) in the Holy Scriptures(Old TestamenT).  Especially His Love and Trust in His Father in Psalms.    Thats the body of the antichrist.


Peace be with You.


Peace be with you.
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shibboleth

  • Guest
cheerful
« Reply #5 on: March 23, 2006, 08:19:47 PM »

I used to have a Bible study with a woman. She started to talk about how much people who don't know God deserve hell. She was so nonchalant about it. I told her I was studying Rays site and hadn't reached a conclusion yet about whether there was a real hell or not. She just looked at me. At a church I attended, a woman told me she thought her son was going to hell. She stated it so matter of factly without any emotion or care. Yet when her son almost died because of drunken driving, she was so upset. I thought, you are so worried about him dying on earth, yet seem not to care at all that he is going to hell.
I studied the LOF series for 4 months. Then I knew there was no hell and my depression left.  I don't think people think about the ramifications of their ugly beliefs. If they did, they would be weeping and wailing day and night for all the people going to such a hideous place.
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jerry cabral

  • Guest
choice
« Reply #6 on: March 23, 2006, 10:06:35 PM »

In the beginning of my walk I had a choice, to hate satan or love my Lord.    I held on prayed cried and begged, relentless because I wanted to Love my Lord.  Hold on to one Truth, question dabated argued and that was within myself.  Also with my brothers until my middle name was "I got a question".   That One Truth was who My Lord My Love is.  The King, The Beloved Son of the Most Hish God.  What little I know is what he has shown me in the whole Bible.  His Love, Honor, Pain, Struggle, Obedience, and Trust all in His Father which makes and Made Him His Fathers glory.  Which makes and made Him a King worthy but yet always give Praise to His Father.  In my eyes He is His Fathers Son.  Just the little he has shown me reminds me of the pearl in which I would sell everthing for.  In return as promised The Comforter In which I cant even explain.  But with that one Truth there are thing that are just are.  There is no persucution or lie, and that persuction and lies comes from withing for the liar knows us more that we know ourself that the Comforter cant handle. I have to learn to trust more for I guess that is were my faith is lacking, knowing that He is incharge of everything.  All those ugly beliefs.  Well all I would say is what he said when he sends the Comforter and the Spirit of Truth.  He would explain and the beginning of "Such knowledge is too wonderful for me.  Its is high, I cannot attain it.  He is Large and Incharge.  And to truly love my brother is to truly love God.  And the steps to that love is in Peter.  One step is temperance, as one great sister taught me, one could only temper with fire,  as he purifys us with flame.  And than comes my favorite step patience.  



Peace be with you.
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broken

  • Guest
cheerful
« Reply #7 on: March 24, 2006, 12:48:14 AM »

Quote from: shibboleth
I used to have a Bible study with a woman. She started to talk about how much people who don't know God deserve hell. She was so nonchalant about it. I told her I was studying Rays site and hadn't reached a conclusion yet about whether there was a real hell or not. She just looked at me. At a church I attended, a woman told me she thought her son was going to hell. She stated it so matter of factly without any emotion or care. Yet when her son almost died because of drunken driving, she was so upset. I thought, you are so worried about him dying on earth, yet seem not to care at all that he is going to hell.
I studied the LOF series for 4 months. Then I knew there was no hell and my depression left.  I don't think people think about the ramifications of their ugly beliefs. If they did, they would be weeping and wailing day and night for all the people going to such a hideous place.


Hello again, shibboleth.

Clarification here; some of us who believe in hell have seriously thought through our belief and find it quite true and fitting with the Word of God.  True, we do despair for those who are - as far as we know - on the road to that destination, but we also rejoice in the sovereignty and love of our Father.  

Brandon
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PIM

  • Guest
cheerful
« Reply #8 on: March 24, 2006, 02:40:55 AM »

Quote
   
Hello again, shibboleth.
Clarification here; some of us who believe in hell have seriously thought through our belief and find it quite true and fitting with the Word of God. True, we do despair for those who are - as far as we know - on the road to that destination, but we also rejoice in the sovereignty and love of our Father.  Brandon


With all due respect Brandon, anyone who spends any time at all in serious study, thought or prayerful meditation on the doctrine of eternal torment in hellfire could not possibly find it true or fitting with the Word of God.  Have you taken the time to read Ray's articles on Hell?  If not, how can you say you have seriously thought through your belief?

And you ONLY "despair" for those you think are on that road?  

I pray you may yet come to know of the sovereignty and love of the Father.

Pat
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Falconn003

  • Guest
cheerful
« Reply #9 on: March 24, 2006, 09:39:07 AM »

bobbys43

       A         M            E             N


Humbleness seems to be the hardest word.


Rodger
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Falconn003

  • Guest
cheerful
« Reply #10 on: March 24, 2006, 09:50:03 AM »

bobbys43

I suggest you read his post for clarification so that you may draw out your own conclusion and not be influence in any way by others.  :wink:


Rodger
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shibboleth

  • Guest
cheerful
« Reply #11 on: March 24, 2006, 10:43:13 AM »

Before the crash and all the old posts were lost, Brandon would post disagreements about eternal torture of mankind. He truly believes all people who don't believe accept Christ in this life, go to hell.
Why don't you read Rays Part C series on where the doctrine of eternal punishment came from. It didn't come from the Bible.
Please answer these questions, Brandon.
If hell is real, why didn't God mention it to Adam and Eve? All God said is they would die, not go to a pit forever to be burned and tortured.
If hell is real, why didn't Moses, Abraham, Joshua, Jacob, Isaac etc talk about it.
If hell is real, why is the only punishment ever mentioned in the OT to be carried out here on this earth? There is no hint anywhere in the OT of an eternal punishment.
If hell is real, why isn't the OT just full of stories about people who went there and what would happen to you if you didn't walk the right path?
To warn people over and over again about the punishment here on earth for sin, and for God to be silent about the punishment in the hereafter, seems cruel and unusual to me.
Please find me 10 scriptures in the OT, Brandon, that state God will send people to an endless torture chamber called hell.
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Falconn003

  • Guest
cheerful
« Reply #12 on: March 24, 2006, 12:51:26 PM »

bobbys43

yes , unfortunate i also came to that conclusion on our brother broken brandon,  i still have faith for him and prayers.


Rodger
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Falconn003

  • Guest
cheerful
« Reply #13 on: March 24, 2006, 01:42:52 PM »

bobby

your not alone on this ill feeling of his spirit, he is just being given enough rope, figures he wants to be a cowboy and lasso himself with it... :)

but even though broken brandon has this privillage to speak his peace as we all do, as i remeber Deenis stated this can help us understand what we are going up against in the real world and many confrontations like these are coming.  (((i probably did not say it as well as he did)))

but i understood it as a test of our tolerance and patience.

Rodger
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Falconn003

  • Guest
cheerful
« Reply #14 on: March 24, 2006, 02:26:14 PM »

bobbys43

There are many in here that feel as you do , as i am one of them.

And many in here hold the truths God have shown to us at a high value, and would not let some come in here and steal it away from us so easily.

Our focus on God and our growth in spirit, is what brings us into a felowship of truth and love for one another.

As we learn not to be idle no longer, will the tolerance be as high as before, but our love for those who still cling unto the babylon spirit is still there ever so stronger for them all.

Rodger
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eutychus

  • Guest
cheerful
« Reply #15 on: March 24, 2006, 02:41:35 PM »

Quote from: Falconn003
bobbys43

There are many in here that feel as you do , as i am one of them.

And many in here hold the truths God have shown to us at a high value, and would not let some come in here and steal it away from us so easily.

Our focus on God and our growth in spirit, is what brings us into a felowship of truth and love for one another.

As we learn not to be idle no longer, will the tolerance be as high as before, but our love for those who still cling unto the babylon spirit is still there ever so stronger for them all.

Rodger





since this is not  forum to evangelize i guess i see your point.

but for me i worry not about anyone stealing away my joy and love.


and i am not sure what the babylon spirit is, would like clarification on that.


this i do know:

1Th 5:14
Now we exhort you, brethren, warn them that are unruly, comfort the feebleminded, support the weak, be patient toward((( all men))))

2nd:
2Ti 2:24
And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto(( all men, )))apt to teach, patient,

 but then again if this forum is for fellowship only and not teaching then i am wrong.


peace and love
eutychus
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eutychus

  • Guest
cheerful
« Reply #16 on: March 24, 2006, 03:05:21 PM »

How you clarify them, well, (((((is up to you is it not.))))))


And i believe it is God who uses me as God wills and not mine, so if i am inpatient then it is((((( God who has me as such who can twart God)))))), If i am angered it is God who has me angered who can twart God



 :?:  :?:  :?:  :?:
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ertsky

  • Guest
cheerful
« Reply #17 on: March 24, 2006, 03:07:29 PM »

patient to all men yes however

1Co 5:11  But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.

Brandon was trying to pass himself off as a brother and i for one more didn't think He was in a right place

i don't want to break bread (share in the word) with someone who has doctrines against the doctrine of Christ.(fornication, babylon)

if he had showed the slightest bit of humility or sincere desire for Christ i would have tried to cut Him some slack but my spirit was just going NO WAY THIS GUY ISN'T RIGHT

it's embarassing a little for me because God is only just dealing with me on this same subject

when i first came to this board i was constantly falling into the wrong spirit but God in His mercy has been chastening and scourging and i trust soon i will be more like Him than i was before

so as i continue, i want to seek Christ in the people here, not seek the admiration of those who are Christs here

we are one in Him members one of another and members of Christ :)

with gifts for one another

Eph 4:13  Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
Eph 4:14  That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
Eph 4:15  But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:
Eph 4:16  From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.
Eph 4:17  This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth walk not as other Gentiles walk, in the vanity of their mind,
 

well God knows

i'm just glad i didn't get thrown out when i drifted into a wrong spirit here and there

f
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Falconn003

  • Guest
cheerful
« Reply #18 on: March 24, 2006, 03:08:17 PM »

God clarifies it for you and clarifies it for me on an intament level individualy does he not ???


If your gonna look at the contradictions in me then there is nothing you can gain from me.  :wink:

Rodger
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eutychus

  • Guest
cheerful
« Reply #19 on: March 24, 2006, 03:12:54 PM »

Quote from: Falconn003
God clarifies it for you and clarifies it for me on an intament level individualy doe he not ???


If your gonna look at the contradictions in me then there is nothing you can gain from me.  :wink:

Rodger



 hello,
  what is it you would like me to gain from you friend?

i only qouted scripture on being patient with the weaker brothers.

take it as you want.

peace
eutychus
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