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Author Topic: Explaining and Understanding EVIL  (Read 3509 times)

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moshe

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Explaining and Understanding EVIL
« on: January 08, 2015, 04:21:26 AM »

Surely most of you already know most of what I will be posting here. However, explaining this is always hard. So this is an attempt to come to understand this even better. 


God the almighty Programmer and Creator of everything, the physical world and the spiritual realm, Our super powerful, super computing, super sensitive, super wise all loving God carefully planned everything that happens in great, GREAT detail (Luke 12:7), from the beginning to end, there is nothing to take out of it, nothing to add, it is a perfect project that works far, far more complex than any tiny human mind could ever come to fully understand. Our God knows exactly how everything works, for him everything is predictable and deterministic. God never gets surprised, God is always good. And He fully knows what is he doing and why.

Now, without taking in account both worlds; the spiritual and the physical, it's impossible to explain EVIL. We all  relatively know some about the physical world, but about the spiritual world we know much less, --it's such a mystery. Any images about the spiritual world only help to misrepresent and confuse us even more. Much of what we can know is that there are good and bad conscious spirits beings with different ranks and therefore must be also different systems and structures. We also know that the spiritual realm is constantly influencing the physical world trough our minds and therefore many of our actions on a daily base.

So there we have it, as if dealing with our own carnal mind was not enough... we also have to deal with the influences of bad spirit beings who take advantage of our carnal desires and are constantly trying to drag us away from the truth! (Eph. 6:12)
Seems as if the spiritual realm is at war! And all spirits have their own position and function on it... Obviously these spirits beings are intelligent and for them there is a reason behind what they do. After all… they are all under the ‘large scale of spiritual systems’ which God--The Great engineer and programmer has designed.

Our almighty God, all power full, super wise Creator of all realms always has a good and great purpose for everything that He does, and that includes every evil that He permits and frames on the spiritual realm as well as He does in the physical one (Mat 6:10).

''...For he makes his sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust...''
(Mat. 5:45)

Like it or not... This is the truth of things:

''I [God] form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.''
(Isa. 45:7)

and

"...I created the ruiner [the Destructor] to harm [to destroy]..." (Isa.54:16)

When talking about the spiritual realm, of course I wouldn't forget to mention that dirty spirit being called Satan the Devil; the ruiner\destructor, the prince of the power of the air (Ephesians 2:2), whom as you already know is the spirit with the highest rank among the spirits beings of evil nature.

Now here is the deal. I think that the most we think and take into account "the spiritual realm influencing the physical world", the easiest it will be for us to understand why so much nasty (but temporally) EVIL in this world.

So here is an analogy (which can be used until certain extend) to help us to comprehend better the influence of the spiritual realm in our physical world:

No body of us can see the internet, neither touch the internet, and we can't get our bodies inside the internet. However, we experience the effects of the internet every time we open a webpage which is stored in somebody else hard drive... the consequences of the internet in the world are of colossal magnitude, most of the people who use the internet doesn't technically know how it works, and it doesn't matter if people believe if it exist or not, the internet is in cyberspace and we can all see it's effects every day.

No body of us can see the spiritual realm, neither touch it, smell it, or taste it. However, we experience it's colossal effects on a daily base, why is there so much EVIL in the world? 
   Because that somewhat powerful spiritual being called ''the ruiner'' is very good at what he does, we know he is not omnipresent but as a president, his influence and power affects the lives of many humans as well as other bad spirit beings.

And I could go on and on, naming all kinds of nasty sins. Why they are such depraved minds out there ruining others and making ugly acts of shame? The answer is because they are victims of the influences of the ''prince of the power of the air". You see. We can rightly blame it all on the devil. And that's okay, that's his function. Of course, that argument will not help anyone in a mans court. But in God's judgement, He is going to surely take it in account.
The devil make me do it. Of course--seriously. But we still have to face the consequences, and eventually by it, our carnal mind is being destroyed.

The God of patience knew exactly how much knowledge of evil each of us would be able to take, it's personalized. We tend to feel so bad for others experiences of evil (either physical experiences or mental ones) when we really doesn't exactly know how much physical or spiritual strength they have to be able to handle it. In winter sometimes I use three layers of cloth while certain people in the streets are carelessly walking in shorts and t-shirt. I am not trying to be insensitive about it. Personally I have seen great evil  first hand (at least to my perception) and I have cried, and felt great empathy, and sometimes I have been scare. However, for some reason my mind doesn't have a problem with God knowing this things would happen and still putting His whole master plan to start. Our tiny little conception of "what should be" and what "should never had existed" is a joke in comparison with the Mind and the Wisdom of God.

Christians have such a bizarre, twisted idea of God, they do not fear Him at all, they think that everything is in such a mess, and their god is all weary, trying to deal with the mischievousness of the wacky devil while trying to convince those crazy tiny little humans that he created to believe on him. Christians wish that evil had never existed, and their god is just a helpless romantic, weak, wishful and looser god whom needs your money and to be entertained with repetitive songs.


I guess that if we can take a few things out of all this deal, it should be PERSPECTIVE, reverence to the All Mighty and humility from our part. I said perspective because from God's perspective there are many absolutes while from man's perspective it's all relative, we humans change constantly, merely walking in the shadows of death (a few of us with faith and many without) and to think that we could have done things better than our all powerful, all wise, super smart, super loving God, it's just dumb. 

"The fear [reverent holy fear] of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: and the knowledge of the holy is understanding." (Pro. 9:10)


Right now, things are the way they are... the physical and spiritual world are as they are and I myself (or you) can't really do ANYTHING about it... It's an experience of evil that I must go right now and trough the rest of my life so that I can become humble, I don't dare to criticize God's plan. Actually every day is interesting, it's a challenge, it's exiting!
 
"In the fear of the LORD is strong confidence: and his children shall have a place of refuge." (Prov. 14:26)

On this age, the knowledge of the true God, of his plan and intentions, of the the spiritual realm, of the existence of ''the ruiner'' and the existence of Jesus Christ our Savior IS NOT for everyone... On this age, faith is just a gift for some called ones, and "overcoming until the end with this faith" is a gift for very few.

Trough the spiritual realm we are also influenced by a very powerful spirit of good nature. It's the spirit of Jesus Christ himself. When we display the fruits of this spirit, our minds are kind of possessed by this holy spirit.

Everything was created trough this program that is part of God which is called Jesus.

"For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.' (Eph. 2:10)
And YET Jesus himself is humble!


...meek am I and humble in heart...     Jesus





 








« Last Edit: January 09, 2015, 05:49:12 PM by Moises G. »
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Kat

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Re: Explaining and Understanding EVIL
« Reply #1 on: January 08, 2015, 12:30:40 PM »


Hi Moises,

That a good overall view of things, particularly the spiritual realm, which as you said is so mysterious. We all need to contemplate these things.

mercy, peace and love,
Kat
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lilitalienboi16

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Re: Explaining and Understanding EVIL
« Reply #2 on: January 08, 2015, 03:21:03 PM »

Wow Moises, what a beautiful post. Sincerely! Its interesting you posted this as I'm reading through JOB right now and listening to Job's friends lambast him and watching Job try and justify himself. What perfect timing for your post!

God bless brother!

Alex
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1 Cor 1:10 "Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment."

Rene

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Re: Explaining and Understanding EVIL
« Reply #3 on: January 08, 2015, 07:22:23 PM »


... and to think that we could have done things better than our all powerful, all wise, super smart, super loving God, it's just dumb. 


Yes, dumb and arrogant!  I appreciated your comments as well, Moises. :)

René

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indianabob

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Re: Explaining and Understanding EVIL
« Reply #4 on: January 09, 2015, 04:05:37 PM »

Thanks very much Moises,
I will re-read this and give it much thought.
It is such a blessing to fellowship with brethren who think alike and think as God would have us to do even though we are all individuals with our own personal experiences and at different stages in our spiritual development.

Thank you kindly, Indiana Bob
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moshe

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Re: Explaining and Understanding EVIL
« Reply #5 on: January 09, 2015, 05:56:35 PM »

Thanks all of you for your comments. I tryed to keep it as short as I could...


IF anyone have ideas of specific examples on how does the spiritual realm affects our

physical world, even examples of daily life.  I think the additions would enrich the train

 of thought of this subject greatly.
« Last Edit: January 09, 2015, 05:58:42 PM by Moises G. »
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Kat

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Re: Explaining and Understanding EVIL
« Reply #6 on: January 10, 2015, 02:41:32 PM »


Hi Moises, I have not had any personal experience with a spirit being, that I know of...

Heb 13:2  Do not neglect to show hospitality to strangers, for thereby some have entertained angels unawares.

We know that angel are intelligent beings and they seek better understanding of things happening in this world.

1Peter 1:10  Of this salvation the prophets have inquired and searched carefully, who prophesied of the grace that would come to you,
v. 11  searching what, or what manner of time, the Spirit of Christ who was in them was indicating when He testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ and the glories that would follow.
v. 12  To them (the prophets) it was revealed that, not to themselves, but to us they were ministering the things which now have been reported to you through those (the Apostles) who have preached the gospel to you by the Holy Spirit sent from heaven—things which angels desire to look into.

Now there are a couple of Scripture that I think are very interesting concerning angels and the position they hold. We see in Revelation that John is shown great visions (Rev 9:17) of what is to come to the world in this age.

Rev 1:1  The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show to his servants the things that must soon take place. He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John,

When you go over to chapter 19, by that point John was so completely overwhelmed with the grandeur of the heavenly angel/messenger, and with the amazing truths he was revealing to him, that he actually fell in front of him to give him praise.

Rev 19:10  Then I fell down at his feet to worship him, but he said to me, "You must not do that! I am a fellow servant with you and your brothers who hold to the testimony of Jesus. Worship God." For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy. 

The angel corrected him, but made an interesting comment "I am a fellow servant with you and your brothers." And again further over the same thing happened again.

Rev 22:9  but he said to me, "You must not do that! I am a fellow servant with you and your brothers the prophets, and with those who keep the words of this book. Worship God."

And the angel again corrected him and said that he was a "fellow servant." Now I guess we all understand that there are Holy angels spoken of and that they are messengers that serve at God's throne and are mentioned throughout the Scripture. Have you ever contemplated that they are "fellow servants" with the elect and what part they may play in serving with them in the next age?

Heb 1:13  But of which of the angels hath he said at any time, Sit thou on my right hand, Till I make thine enemies the footstool of thy feet?
v. 14  Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to do service for the sake of them that shall inherit salvation?

To just think there is a whole host of Holy beings waiting and ready in heaven to serve with the elect in the next age... I guess the elect will have much help when they are judging this world. Just wanted to bring out these intriguing Scripture.

mercy, peace and love
Kat
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moshe

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Re: Explaining and Understanding EVIL
« Reply #7 on: January 12, 2015, 02:25:22 AM »

Wow Moises, what a beautiful post. Sincerely! Its interesting you posted this as I'm reading through JOB right now and listening to Job's friends lambast him and watching Job try and justify himself. What perfect timing for your post!

God bless brother!

Alex

I am glad you got it in time!
You are inspiring me to go back to that job book once again. It's been a while since a read the whole book.

Talking about the power of God, reminds me of this verse


"That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but the power of God..." (1Cor. 2:5).









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moshe

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Re: Explaining and Understanding EVIL
« Reply #8 on: January 12, 2015, 02:29:41 AM »

Thanks very much Moises,
I will re-read this and give it much thought.
It is such a blessing to fellowship with brethren who think alike and think as God would have us to do even though we are all individuals with our own personal experiences and at different stages in our spiritual development.

Thank you kindly, Indiana Bob

tnks
Feel free to add as much as you feel, once you finished to give it much thought  :)


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moshe

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Re: Explaining and Understanding EVIL
« Reply #9 on: January 12, 2015, 03:45:23 AM »


Hi Kat

What you brought respecting angels is so very interesting! It makes me wonder if maybe we are as much mystery to them as they are for us, --maybe much less. I wonder about the life of an angel, and how many types of lifestyles for angels they are, I wonder if they are concerned with other things besides sending messages and serve God, I wonder about the ‘large scale of spiritual systems’... Mainly I would like to know to what extend we deal with the influence of angels on a daily base. If the devil has such a great influence in the world today, I wonder if angels also play such a huge roll in influencing our minds and therefore our actions. Seems like the Scriptures talk more about bad spirits than good spirits-- I wonder if they fight constantly on the spiritual realm. It's so hard to think about this things with out images. For some reason I just think that angels are cool dudes. I can't wait to meet one and be friend of a couple ones...



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moshe

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Re: Explaining and Understanding EVIL
« Reply #10 on: January 12, 2015, 03:57:15 AM »

On regard to bad spirits. I think we all have seen their influence around us, specially when we where in church. God's truths are the only absolutes that we can have faith in. When a doctrine contradicts God's truths, this are absolute lies. The devil is called the father of lies. And I don't think we are talking about relative lies when it comes to the devil lies; like saying that you got five minutes late to the meeting because your watch was delayed.

Honestly, sometimes preachers in tv look almost possessed by demons to me. I really believe that Organized religion can be traced back as one of the starting points that had increase the amount of visible evil on the world.

This is because,
‘‘we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against SPIRITUAL HOSTS OF WICKEDNESS IN THE HEAVENLY PLACES (in the spiritual realm).’’ 

And how can we fight against the influence of spirit beings in the spiritual realm, if we live on the physical world and only are able to have contact with physical people?
It's trough our minds! We fight with our minds, we fight wrong ideologies that are repeated trough people to people, but originated by demons. The world will never be healed with money, good organization, good deeds of charity, or hard work, as long as bad spirits in the spiritual realm keep on messing with the physical world trough our minds.

I am starting to be convinced that having the spiritual realm always present on my mind, is very helpful, specially when understanding and dealing and watching and experiencing the evil that every day has. When reading people all around me, sometimes I can see the influence of demons in some more than others, specially more in very religious sick persons.


An example of how the spiritual realm affects me on a daily base, would be,

When I think about the truths of God and give thanks and have good wishes and love toward everybody, specially my brothers, -- all these was originally caused trough the spiritual realm by the spirit of Jesus.


When a bad character trait comes out of me, it might be originated by previous thoughts that make me behave this way, thoughts that where influenced directly or indirectly by bad spirits.


That's what I have so far...

Any thoughts or aditions?



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No one has ever seen a real demon AS THEY ARE SPIRIT, AND THEY ARE NOT VISIBLE. We are never told that we might on occasion entertain "demons unaware," as we might entertain angels (Heb. 3:2).

"Angels," however, can be either visible or invisible, and are often called "men." Sometimes they seem to be manifested as physical men (Acts 10:3 & 30 and Luke 24:4), BUT IN REALITY THEY ARE ACTUALLY SPIRIT BEINGS. Mortal men when used of God are called angels or messengers which, like all men, are destined to die. However, spirit angels in Heaven can never die:

"Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection" (Luke 20:36).

Quote by L. Ray Smith,
« Last Edit: January 12, 2015, 04:01:12 AM by Moises G. »
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Mahonse

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Re: Explaining and Understanding EVIL
« Reply #11 on: January 12, 2015, 04:51:23 AM »

Thanks all of you for your comments. I tryed to keep it as short as I could...


IF anyone have ideas of specific examples on how does the spiritual realm affects our

physical world, even examples of daily life.  I think the additions would enrich the train

 of thought of this subject greatly.

I generally find that after spending time with someone I like, e.g. my mother, a friend, a colleague, I feel as if I've acquired some of their 'spirit'. The more time I spend with them, the more I get to know them and then, especially in social situations or struggling situations, I think about what they'd do and act like them in situations. I think that is why Paul advises to 'pray without ceasing' so that we can get to know our Father even more and thus acquire more of His Spirit.

Jesus also says 'Just as the living Father sent me and I live because of the Father, so the one who feeds on me will live because of me.' John 6:57

So the more we draw from the Spirit of Christ the better chance we have in overcoming evil.
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Extol

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Re: Explaining and Understanding EVIL
« Reply #12 on: January 12, 2015, 10:17:47 AM »

I really like this part:

The God of patience knew exactly how much knowledge of evil each of us would be able to take

Thanks Moises!
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Dave in Tenn

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Re: Explaining and Understanding EVIL
« Reply #13 on: January 12, 2015, 12:01:42 PM »

Thanks all of you for your comments. I tryed to keep it as short as I could...


IF anyone have ideas of specific examples on how does the spiritual realm affects our

physical world, even examples of daily life.  I think the additions would enrich the train

 of thought of this subject greatly.

I generally find that after spending time with someone I like, e.g. my mother, a friend, a colleague, I feel as if I've acquired some of their 'spirit'. The more time I spend with them, the more I get to know them and then, especially in social situations or struggling situations, I think about what they'd do and act like them in situations. I think that is why Paul advises to 'pray without ceasing' so that we can get to know our Father even more and thus acquire more of His Spirit.

Jesus also says 'Just as the living Father sent me and I live because of the Father, so the one who feeds on me will live because of me.' John 6:57

So the more we draw from the Spirit of Christ the better chance we have in overcoming evil.

Me too.
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Heb 10:32  But you must continue to remember those earlier days, how after you were enlightened you endured a hard and painful struggle.

Doug

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Re: Explaining and Understanding EVIL
« Reply #14 on: January 12, 2015, 10:55:21 PM »

Moises, you asked if anyone had experienced a spirit being. Many years ago I had an angel speak very briefly to me. It was like a voice that went right to my mind. Hard to describe but it was not in any way scary. I have shared this until now with just 3 people. Another time I was headed for a auto accident as my van was out of control. The next thing I knew my van was in the right lane behind another car. One thought was did the car that was ready to hit me head on see that and what just happened.  I knew God had an angel watching over me.

Doug
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Joel

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Re: Explaining and Understanding EVIL
« Reply #15 on: January 13, 2015, 03:10:33 AM »

I have had similar instances also Doug.
I was under attack by evil forces as a child, they would appear in my minds eye most nights as disembodied faces one after another tormenting me seemingly to no end.
I didn't see them physically, because I would be so afraid I would cover my head with the bed clothes.
Then one night they were dispelled by a good full bodied figure that appeared in my minds eye, and he told me "Don't be afraid, uncover your head, and rest."
As I said I was a child, and this experience lasted for some six or seven years. Age six to about twelve years of age.
I believe that evil spirits influence and are attracted to evil choices. At the time I was under attack as a child, there was much evil going on in my families household.

I also have had a good voice speak to me inside my head that has told me things that I have wondered at, but they have always been words that came absolutely true.
This has happened several times, and most always unexpectedly.
Ephesians chapter 6 tells us to be strong in the Lord, so we may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.
Good post Moises, may the Lord richly bless you in your travels.

Joel
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moshe

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Re: Explaining and Understanding EVIL
« Reply #16 on: January 13, 2015, 02:46:39 PM »

Thanks for your contribution.


As an aside note, with out trying to diminish anyones mind experiences.


I believe that the influence of the spiritual realm over the physical world always goes way beyond our full comprehension, however, I also believe that having it present it's the key to explain the deepest complexities of all evil in the world.

In the past I have been expossed to some books in neuroscience that help to understand how it is that our minds construct mental models of everything around us and even of ideas themselves. What I am trying to say is that the spiritual realm goes beyond our sences, its' in in deed such a mystery. No body has ever seen a bad spirit. All our images of them are mental constructions that our minds build with previos information storaged in our minds.

I don't believe that demons in the spiritual realm affect the physical world directly, but only trough our minds. I think that all creepy scenarios of things moving, etc. always have a physical explination even if the explination goes now beyond human comprehension.








« Last Edit: January 13, 2015, 03:54:15 PM by Moises G. »
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ez2u

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Re: Explaining and Understanding EVIL
« Reply #17 on: January 15, 2015, 03:33:36 AM »

enjoyed this post and what people have said on it. Some people are more sensitive to spirits than others. I have seen angels and demons most of my life off and on.  My husband would pray each night with our family for Gods heavenly angels to dwell with us. I would catch glances of them walking about our home. It sounds nutty and probably certifiable but its true. I don't make an issue of it.  what i really liked about Moises post was this sense of calmness and flow of life that i read over and over.  God is in control and there is evil and good on this earth and we don't know anything but its alright. When i read Kat's post what stirred deep inside me to continue on my course in service to Do His Will. Isn't that what is important? all else are shallows and temperate. Wash me clean with your blood, sanctify and set my soul at rest.
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moshe

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Re: Explaining and Understanding EVIL
« Reply #18 on: January 15, 2015, 12:54:16 PM »

Thanks Ez2u for your comments on my post...

Its funny, but "calmness and continuos undistracted flow of life" is exactly what I have been looking and praying for on this last weeks.
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moshe

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Re: Explaining and Understanding EVIL
« Reply #19 on: January 16, 2015, 03:12:05 PM »



I think that in times we can't help but use our IMAGination when it comes to bad spirits and the devil, if the scriptures never.describe how.a.demon looks like is because of a good reason--I don't think anybody has ever seen a demon. I would be very careful on basing my beliefs of the spiritual realm in others subjective experiences. I think Hollywood and the church had already mess up with our minds enough when it comes to to images of spiritual beings.








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