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This looks SO awesome! I want to see it!
wat:
Aside from John 11:9, where Jesus said there are 12 hours in the day, there's Gen. 1:5, where God refers to the light as day. Oatmeal said he's happy to stick with these two scriptures to define the word day.
As for New Testament quotations of Old Testament verses using yom, I'll have to look into that. If the apostles used the Septuagint, perhaps we could look to that too, but keeping in mind that the Septuagint, like any other translation, wasn't inspired by God.
lilitalienboi16:
It is interesting that forty days is plural in english but yom, IUM, remains singular regardless of the amount attached to it. That would, in my opinion, make void the idea that a yom singular is twelve hours.
Also, there many scriptures that use singular yom to refer to the day of judgment and wrath. Are these only to take place over twelve hours?
Each one of the following examples matches in its usage of Genesis 2:4, singular Yom, b.IUM.
Psalm 110 1-7
The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.
The Lord shall send the rod of thy strength out of Zion: rule thou in the midst of thine enemies.
Thy people shall be willing in the day [Singular Yom] of thy power, in the beauties of holiness from the womb of the morning: thou hast the dew of thy youth.
The Lord hath sworn, and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchizedek.
The Lord at thy right hand shall strike through kings in the day [Singular yom, positive this time ;)] of his wrath.
He shall judge among the heathen, he shall fill the places with the dead bodies; he shall wound the heads over many countries.
He shall drink of the brook in the way: therefore shall he lift up the head.
The day of wrath is twelve hours long? ??? The day of His power is only twelve hours long? ???
Ezekiel 13:5 Ye have not gone up into the gaps, neither made up the hedge for the house of Israel to stand in the battle in the day [Singular YOm] of the Lord.
The day of the Lord lasts twelve hours?
Here singular Yom is translated as Time. There is only one day, twelve hours long, of harvest? Aren't there entire seasons which consist of many days for harvest?
Proverbs 25:13 As the cold of snow in the time [Singular Yom] of harvest, so is a faithful messenger to them that send him: for he refresheth the soul of his masters.
Here again is the singular yom translated time.
Proverbs 25:19 Confidence in an unfaithful man in time [Singular Yom] of trouble is like a broken tooth, and a foot out of joint.
Now someone might want to argue this next one and that's fine but did Isreal come out of Egypt in one day or did it take many days to finally come out of Egypt?
Isaiah 11:16 And there shall be an highway for the remnant of his people, which shall be left, from Assyria; like as it was to Israel in the day [Singular Yom] that he came up out of the land of Egypt.
Jeremiah 7:22 For I spake not unto your fathers, nor commanded them in the day [Singular Yom] that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, concerning burnt offerings or sacrifices:
Jeremiah 11:4 Which I commanded your fathers in the day [Singular Yom] that I brought them forth out of the land of Egypt, from the iron furnace, saying, Obey my voice, and do them, according to all which I command you: so shall ye be my people, and I will be your God:
Jeremiah 11:7 For I earnestly protested unto your fathers in the day [Singular Yom] that I brought them up out of the land of Egypt, even unto this day, rising early and protesting, saying, Obey my voice.
I mean many of these things didn't all happen on one literal twelve hour period refered to as a day of exodus. It happened over many years, in fact, to my understanding, while they were in the wilderness which last forty years. Yet its all a day.
Wasn't the covenent made in the wildnerness? Yet its part of that "day" God took them out of Egypt. Moses recieved the ten commandments which are the covenent on top of the mountains which he was there for forty days and nights. How can this all be one literal twelve hour day?
Jeremiah 31:32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day [Singular Yom] that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:
Is the day of great slaughter going to last twelve hours or is it much longer? Similar to a day of judgment?
Jeremiah 34:13 Thus saith the Lord, the God of Israel; I made a covenant with your fathers in the day [Singular Yom] that I brought them forth out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondmen, saying,
Isaiah 30:25 And there shall be upon every high mountain, and upon every high hill, rivers and streams of waters in the day [Singular Yom] of the great slaughter, when the towers fall.
The land didn't receive rain for twelve hours? Big deal!
Ezekiel 22:24 Son of man, say unto her, Thou art the land that is not cleansed, nor rained upon in the day [Singular Yom] of indignation.
Zephaniah 2:3 Seek ye the Lord, all ye meek of the earth, which have wrought his judgment; seek righteousness, seek meekness: it may be ye shall be hid in the day [Singular Yom] of the Lord's anger.
The day of the Lord's anger lasts twelve hours??? I don't know, I find all this hard to believe.
Here, I found the nail in the coffin to this twelve hour day discussion:
Isa 34:8 For a day [Singular Day] of vengeance is it for Yahweh, a year of repayments for the contention of Zion. (CLV)
Isa 34:8 For it is the day [Singular Day] of the LORD'S vengeance, and the year of recompences for the controversy of Zion. (KJV)
It is a singular day of vengeance for God and but a whole year of repayments for Zion? Singular Day = Year (365 x 12 hours) of repayments. How then can it be a literal twelve hour period?
Lastly, what about Genesis 2:17, the day you eat the fruit dying you will surely die. Adam didn't die that same day... he lived a long long time to come (900+ y ears total).
Gen 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day [Singular Yom] that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
It uses the same form of Yom, B-ium, that is in Genesis 2:4. A singular yom.
I could keep going with this, searching these out but I have to get to work now.
I am not at all convinced that a Yom, even singular, is twelve hours always. I'm more convinced now after understanding what you were saying and searching it out that it most certainly denoates a variable amount of time. A period that begins and ends.
John from Kentucky:
Leviticus 23:26-32 discusses the Day of Atonement (Yom Kippur), which is the tenth day of the seventh month of the Jewish calendar.
In that instance Yom refers to a 24 hour day because the day is kept "evening to evening" (sunset to sunset) just as the Jews keep the weekly Sabbath.
A concordance of biblical usage shows that Yom (Day) is used in Hebrew as a division of time, time, year, day (the daylight portion of a day), and day ( a 24 hour day including light and dark). Yom does not have one set meaning.
Looks like Ray the Roofer was right all along. Yom refers to various units of time. Some Scriptural teaching wannabes do not know what they are talking about, although they are deceived into thinking they are so intelligent.
The difference between the Scriptural teaching ability of Ray the Roofer and others is like the difference between lightning (Ray) and a lightning bug (others). Although it's not really Ray but the Spirit behind Ray.
Oatmeal:
Thank you Loc for your assistance. Yes, it is it is the singular yom that is used in Genesis 1 and it is the singular yom that we are discussing.
I did not say that Genesis 2:4 refers back to Genesis 1:1. I gave that as a possibility, and giving some pointers as to why it was possible.
There were some good finds by Alex, I am not unhappy to admit that. It is possible that "the 'day' of", followed by an expression, may be longer than 12 hours. In English there is an expression "saving up for a rainy day". Such expressions however do not alter the meaning of the word 'day' when the word 'day' is used on its own.
Perhaps Alex will be able to prove his hypothesis. That will be ok with me.
In regard to the post by John, "evening to evening" is a qualifying expression.
Putting the science part aside, in which I was very forward, I have asked specific and easy to understand questions in regard to specific aspects of Ray's teaching in regard to the day-age hypothesis, showing clearly why I could not see those aspects as taught as being truthfully accurate. Those questions in their entirety or in the main have not been answered nor has any genuine attempt been made to answer or to address those questions. Instead I have been viciously accused, unmercifully judged, and harshly sentenced by a member of this forum.
Oatmeal
lilitalienboi16:
--- Quote from: John from Kentucky on March 02, 2015, 08:30:49 PM ---Leviticus 23:26-32 discusses the Day of Atonement (Yom Kippur), which is the tenth day of the seventh month of the Jewish calendar.
In that instance Yom refers to a 24 hour day because the day is kept "evening to evening" (sunset to sunset) just as the Jews keep the weekly Sabbath.
A concordance of biblical usage shows that Yom (Day) is used in Hebrew as a division of time, time, year, day (the daylight portion of a day), and day ( a 24 hour day including light and dark). Yom does not have one set meaning.
Looks like Ray the Roofer was right all along. Yom refers to various units of time. Some Scriptural teaching wannabes do not know what they are talking about, although they are deceived into thinking they are so intelligent.
The difference between the Scriptural teaching ability of Ray the Roofer and others is like the difference between lightning (Ray) and a lightning bug (others). Although it's not really Ray but the Spirit behind Ray.
--- End quote ---
Good point too John. Here that singular Yom denotes a 24 hour period, from "even to even (Deut 23:32)."
I also found the greek equivalent in looking at how the Hebrew writer quotes psalm 95. He uses the greek word: Hemera (G2250). It's strong's definition is rather variable as well. In the same way that Yom is variable. This word is the word used in reference to Judgement Day (Hamera). I suppose one could argue that all the billions of people on the earth will be judged in twelve hours but seeing as how judgement has began on the house of God now and that lasts much longer than twelve hours, I'm thinking for most of humanity and especially those who despise the Lord, judgment day will be much much longer than twelve hours.
God bless,
Alex
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