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[lurquer]

And I guess an obvious explanation for how mortals in the next age will no longer procreate is...they will be sterile. 

[Kat]

Well Michael, this thought has occurred to me... if God turned it on (Libido), then He can turn it off, so to speak. It wouldn't be a hard thing for Him to do either. If He put it there when it was needed, He could take it away when it was no longer needed.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

[John from Kentucky]

Oh people, do give it a rest.  Sex is not dirty or sinful.

God made them male and female.

There is a Scripture that tells us that the unseen can be known by what we see in the physical creation.
One of the most pervasive features among humans, animals, and even plant life is the concept of male and female (and shut your eyes and plug your ears------SEX  )

We do not know for sure if there will be sex in the age to come; Scriptures are not definite either way.

I know some of you think there is one Scripture that says no sex after the Resurrection.  However, you make the common mistake of using only one Scripture and not closely reading the words.  Jesus said they would not marry after the age to come; He did not say that there would be no sex  .

Ray did an excellent study on marriage in which he showed that having sex is not a requirement to validate a marriage.  Please read Ray's article carefully if you want to increase your Scriptural knowledge on the subject of marriage.

Further, Paul tells us we will have a spiritual body in the age to come.  Like we have a physical body now, we will have a spiritual body then.

Paul also tells us that God will have sons and daughters.

Now follow this closely since some can't quite get it.  To have sons and daughters means there will be sexual differences in the spiritual bodies we will have.  Because if we don't have sexual differences then there will not be sons and daughters.  We would be "its" without sexual differences.

Am I going too fast for anyone?  (To borrow a much loved Ray expression.)

Now will there be sex in the age to come?  I do not know since the Scriptures are silent on that point.  But there is a Scripture that says, "At your right hand there will be pleasures evermore."

One thing I do know, there are many among us who do not follow the command of at least two Scriptures to support an opinion.  The blind leading the blind.

[lilitalienboi16]

Alright John well I believe this is another witness to the no marrying which would imply no sex.

1 Corinthians 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

Sex is a flesh and blood act. You are saying something along those lines will inherit the kingdom of heaven. I just can't see that. Sex is a carnal act. Even amongst husband and wife, it still involves lusting after the flesh.

Paul says that he wish all men could be like him but that nevertheless, marriage is not a sin, only that if you are married, it will be harder for you in life to overcome. Why do you think that is? Perhaps because part of a reltaionship with the wife involves the carnal act of sex and giving into that physical lust?

1 Cor 7:1 Now concerning the things whereof ye wrote unto me: It is good for a man not to touch a woman.
1 Cor 7:2 Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband.

1 Cor 7:7 For I would that all men were even as I myself. But every man hath his proper gift of God, one after this manner, and another after that.
1 Cor 7:8 I say therefore to the unmarried and widows, it is good for them if they abide even as I.
1 Cor 7:9 But if they cannot contain, let them marry: for it is better to marry than to burn.

1 Cor 7:28 But and if thou marry, thou hast not sinned; and if a virgin marry, she hath not sinned. Nevertheless such shall have trouble in the flesh: but I spare you.

1 Cor 7:32 But I would have you without carefulness. He that is unmarried careth for the things that belong to the Lord, how he may please the Lord:
1 Cor 7:33 But he that is married careth for the things that are of the world, HOW HE MAY PLEASE HIS WIFE.

1 Cor 7:34 There is difference also between a wife and a virgin. The unmarried woman careth for the things of the Lord, that she may be holy BOTH IN BODY and in spirit: but she that is married careth for the things of the world, HOW SHE MAY PLEASE HER HUSBAND.

There is also a consumation of marriage John, which involves the sexual act. No marriage involves no consummation of it as well. No sex.

Also Christ did not have sex and He is our example. So you suppose when we overcome and become spiritual beings we will suddenly be having sex?

You rightly point out sons and daughters but you don't seem to recall:

Galatians 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

So how do you reconcile no male or female in Christ? Do we ignore this verse and emphasize sons and daughters?

God bless,
Alex

[John from Kentucky]

Hi Alex,

You're missing the mark on all the Scriptures you quoted.

I'm still at work.  Gotta get home and get rested up.  Kentucky basketball game tomorrow night.  God's team is playing, and I must watch.  (And yes, I can prove they're God's team  )

But I'll show you where you're off on a few of your comments.

The Galatians 3:28 quote, God is not saying there won't be men and women in the Kingdom.  Remember God's Word never contradicts.  In 2nd Corinthians He says He will have sons and daughters.  The Galatians Scripture is saying there will be no superiority of one over another.  There is another Scripture that says God is no respecter of persons.  A man or woman is equal in God's sight.  He loves both His sons and daughters equally.

Flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom.  Yes, that is true, but that doesn't specifically address the question of sexual differences.  We cannot twist and read something into the Scriptures that is not there.

I don't get where you are coming from that husband and wife involves lusting after the flesh.  So what?  A husband and wife having sex is perfectly all right and is not sinful at all.  God created it so.  The marriage bed is undefiled.  All lust is not sin, if it is permitted and blessed by God.  Jesus greatly desired (the Greek word is lusted) to eat that final Passover with His Apostles.  Jesus did not sin.  Only unlawful desires, from the heart, are sins.

Jesus is God.  He is in a state all His own.  He had a unique special purpose.  He is not equal to us.  Therefore, things He did while on the Earth do not equate with us.  For example, He was sinless---all of us are sinners.  Jesus was the Creator God and Savior---we are the dust of the Earth.  Get the point?

All the quotes of Paul relate to the specific factors affecting the Corinthian church.  They don't specifically apply to us.

Also, I don't understand your point about consummation of marriage.  If you study Ray' article on marriage, from the Scriptures, sexual consummation is not required to validate a marriage.  Although just about everyone thinks it does, but everyone does not understand the Scriptures on that point.  Read Ray's study if you want understanding on that point.

You're a bulldog Alex.  Keep studying and thinking.  Do not take any man's word on anything.  God's Spirit will guide you to all Truth.

Remember the paramount Truths: 1) God does not lie, and 2) God's Word does not lie.  There are no contradictions.  But all Scriptures must be brought together to see the Truth on a matter.  There is a Scripture that tells us what is true humility, it is one who trembles at God's Word.

Also, my favorite, "Not by might, nor by power, but by My Spirit says the Lord Almighty."

[lilitalienboi16]

Hi Alex,

You're missing the mark on all the Scriptures you quoted.

I'm still at work.  Gotta get home and get rested up.  Kentucky basketball game tomorrow night.  God's team is playing, and I must watch.  (And yes, I can prove they're God's team  )

But I'll show you where you're off on a few of your comments.

The Galatians 3:28 quote, God is not saying there won't be men and women in the Kingdom.  Remember God's Word never contradicts.  In 2nd Corinthians He says He will have sons and daughters.  The Galatians Scripture is saying there will be no superiority of one over another.  There is another Scripture that says God is no respecter of persons.  A man or woman is equal in God's sight.  He loves both His sons and daughters equally.

Flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom.  Yes, that is true, but that doesn't specifically address the question of sexual differences.  We cannot twist and read something into the Scriptures that is not there.

I don't get where you are coming from that husband and wife involves lusting after the flesh.  So what?  A husband and wife having sex is perfectly all right and is not sinful at all.  God created it so.  The marriage bed is undefiled.  All lust is not sin, if it is permitted and blessed by God.  Jesus greatly desired (the Greek word is lusted) to eat that final Passover with His Apostles.  Jesus did not sin.  Only unlawful desires, from the heart, are sins.

Jesus is God.  He is in a state all His own.  He had a unique special purpose.  He is not equal to us.  Therefore, things He did while on the Earth do not equate with us.  For example, He was sinless---all of us are sinners.  Jesus was the Creator God and Savior---we are the dust of the Earth.  Get the point?

All the quotes of Paul relate to the specific factors affecting the Corinthian church.  They don't specifically apply to us.

Also, I don't understand your point about consummation of marriage.  If you study Ray' article on marriage, from the Scriptures, sexual consummation is not required to validate a marriage.  Although just about everyone thinks it does, but everyone does not understand the Scriptures on that point.  Read Ray's study if you want understanding on that point.

You're a bulldog Alex.  Keep studying and thinking.  Do not take any man's word on anything.  God's Spirit will guide you to all Truth.

Remember the paramount Truths: 1) God does not lie, and 2) God's Word does not lie.  There are no contradictions.  But all Scriptures must be brought together to see the Truth on a matter.  There is a Scripture that tells us what is true humility, it is one who trembles at God's Word.

Also, my favorite, "Not by might, nor by power, but by My Spirit says the Lord Almighty."

Interesting response John. Thanks.

I concede that your understanding of Galatians makes sense.

My question for you again is: Paul seems to equate marriage as a sexual outlet for those who cannot control themselves. If sex is lawful in marriage and Christ says there will be no marriage, isn't the only lawful form of sex also done away with? Or is there another form of sex outside of marriage that is acceptable in God's eyes?

Do you understand what I'm saying?

God bless,
Alex

[Mike Gagne]

Galatians 5:19 (KJV)
[19] Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,....       Colossians 3:5-6 (KJV)
[5] Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry: [6] For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience: ......                                                                           1 Corinthians 6:9 (KJV)
[9] Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,                                                                                                                                      Romans 1:28-29 (KJV)
[28] And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; [29] Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,                                                                                        Matthew 15:19-20 (KJV)
[19] For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies: [20] These are the things which defile a man: but to eat with unwashen hands defileth not a man.
   Mark 7:21-23 (KJV)
[21] For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, [22] Thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness: [23] All these evil things come from within, and defile the man.
  1 John 2:15-16 (KJV)
[15] Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him. [16] For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.                                              Ephesians 2:3 (KJV)
[3] Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
Ephesians 5:3 (KJV)
[3] But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints; .....Romans 8:5 (KJV)
[5] For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit...... Myself I don't think we will even have a desire for sex!  I just don't see it. It's a carnal need....

[Kat]

Now follow this closely since some can't quite get it.  To have sons and daughters means there will be sexual differences in the spiritual bodies we will have.  Because if we don't have sexual differences then there will not be sons and daughters.  We would be "its" without sexual differences.

Where did you come up with the idea that a person spiritual body would not retain the same sexual attributes, male or female, that they had when physical? This has not even been in question. But you sound so disturbed about the idea that there would not be sexual relations in the next age that you are beside yourself.

Luke 20:34  Jesus answered and said to them, "The sons of this age marry and are given in marriage.
v. 35  But those who are counted worthy to attain that age, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry nor are given in marriage;

It is a valid point that if there will be no marriage then there would be no sex. What is sex anyway if it is not lust of the flesh, the gratification of the flesh and that is a carnal desire.

1John 2:16  For all that is in the world—the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life—is not of the Father but is of the world.

Mat 5:28  But I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lustful intent has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

1Peter 4:2 2 by no means still to spend the rest of his lifetime in the flesh in human desires, but in the will of God."
v. 3 For sufficient is the time which has passed by to have effected the intention of the nations, having gone on in wantonness, lusts, debauches, revelries, drinking bouts, and illicit idolatries, (CLV)

Gal 5:24  And those who are Christ's have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.

Rom 13:14  But put on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make no provision for the flesh, to gratify its desires.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

[lilitalienboi16]

Kat, can you think of another lawful form of sex outside of marriage that is accepted by God? If not, and If marriage is done away with in the Kingdon of God as Christ said,  wouldn't that eliminate the only lawful form of sex in God's eyes? Then wouldn't it be safe to reason that therefor there won't be any sex, atleast as we know it, in the coming age?

Unless, I suppose, God introduces a new lawful way outside of marriage for it to take place in the nnext age but now I'm completely and totally speculating with zero scripture here.

[Mike Gagne]

Sex.... Its just not going to happen in the next age, sorry get over it now. It will have to go with every other carnal desire. You can't walk in the spirit minding the things of the flesh. The Lake of Fire will burn it right out! If Jesus is circumsizing your heart you will know that it has to go, it's of the flesh and the flesh will not inherit the Kingdom of God. I know the work that is being done in my life and the lust of the flesh/sex has to go and I don't care what the flesh has to say about it...

[Mike Gagne]

Kat you have it right!  Even if it were possible we should not be deceived on this....

[lurquer]

We do not know for sure if there will be sex in the age to come; Scriptures are not definite either way.

I know some of you think there is one Scripture that says no sex after the Resurrection.  However, you make the common mistake of using only one Scripture and not closely reading the words.  Jesus said they would not marry after the age to come; He did not say that there would be no sex  .

Ray did an excellent study on marriage in which he showed that having sex is not a requirement to validate a marriage.  Please read Ray's article carefully if you want to increase your Scriptural knowledge on the subject of marriage.

I know I was advocating some of this early on in the thread, but, again--I was speaking about those who had gone alive into the next age, not the resurrected..  Nevertheless, I have to agree with Kat and Alex in principle here that that Age is NOT for continuing the human race, nor would death have any purpose anymore, so I don't see any reason for either to exist.  Indeed, as I argued initially, there may not be any clear scripture to support this specifically, but I do think the sense of all of scripture as a whole leads us to this conclusion (and I hope it does). 

So if there is no procreation, and no marriage, then there is necessarily no sex.  Why would there be?  Alex pointed out some great scripture to support that, why do you dispute it?

As for your use of Ray's talks on marriage to support your ideas--I don't think so.  I've listened to those audios a number of times, in fact I emailed Ray to ask certain questions about his ideas on marriage (he did not respond--he was sick and very busy), but they do not support any idea of sex outside of marriage.  But I must say , I disagree with Ray on his broad definition of what it meant to "be married".  You cannot be married and not have had sex...Because when a man has sex with a woman, he has married her.  That is the correct, biblical definition of marriage, that the church DOES NOT GET.  Plain and simple.

Sex is really unnecessary (in the next age), John.  Paul said so, Jesus said so (and demonstrated it).  It was only necessary now in order to continue the species...to grow God's family.  Once the last child is born, we will no longer need it.  You say, "yea, but what if we want it!  It's not dirty or sinful!".  My answer to that is, "you won't want it". 

Try to imagine something no longer coming into your mind.  It will happen.

"For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former things shall not be remembered, nor come into mind."

[Mike Gagne]

Maybe I should state that after each one has gone through the lake of fire then there will be no need for sex! When God is all in all it will not be needed. And anyone who thinks there will be sex after this I question if they are 😊

[Joel]

I will ask this question, does there have to be sex involved in order for God to have son's, and daughters?

1st John 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
We are now the sons of God in this life time, those that die without Christ (the anointing) will in the next age become sons, and daughters of God, after the lake of fire.
We are born in sin, and shaped in iniquity. How does that square with the idea that there is going to be fleshly reproduction going in the next righteous age.

I don't see the bride of Christ as being anything physical.
This scripture also came to mind.
Matthew 1:24-25 Then Joseph being raised from sleep did as the angel of the Lord had bidden him, and took unto him his wife. And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS.

Joel

[John from Kentucky]

I do not know if there will be sexual relations in the age to come among spirit beings.  Maybe so.  Maybe not.

The reason I do not know?  The Scriptures do not say.  The two witnesses, the two anointed ones, who stand by the Lord of the whole earth (Zech 4:14), do not tell us.


But I do know one thing.  Those who say that there is no sex in the age to come are unlearned and ignorant of the Scriptures.  I have read your comments.  You are just giving your personal opinions.  You do not know.  You do not have at least two Scriptures to back up your opinions.  You confuse personal opinion with Scriptural truth.

Like the great false church through the ages, you have killed the two witnesses and let their dead bodies lie in the streets of Jerusalem.

[Mike Gagne]

Well John I left a few witnesses on my first post and no one seemed to have read it, I really like how you resort to calling some ignorant , that's real spiritual. My first post on this thread says a lot and scripture was used. Carnal men will defend there carnality to the death! I gave you lots of witnesses and you refuse them! Then tell me I am unlearned and ignorant. Well that's okay John I have been called a lot worse. Have a nice day!

[Mike Gagne]

Come on, if they won't be given in marriage, I don't think they will be sleeping around... Lol it even sounds stupid... 😂😂

[Kat]

John, do you not see you are contradicting yourself own this matter.

"I do not know if there will be sexual relations in the age to come among spirit beings," if you really don't know, then why do you turn right around and say "Those who say that there is no sex in the age to come are unlearned and ignorant of the Scriptures."

Isn't your stance on this your personal opinion as well, where are your 2 witnesses. Because what we are discussing here so offends your carnal flesh to such a degree, that you have resorted to lashing out. You need to either get a grip or just leave this subject alone.

Christ was discussing pray with the disciples and told them...

Luke 11:2  So He said to them, "When you pray, say: Our Father in heaven, Hallowed be Your name. Your kingdom come. Your will be done On earth as it is in heaven.

So when His kingdom is set up on earth, it will be as it is in heaven...

Matt 22:29  Jesus answered and said to them, "You are mistaken, not knowing the Scriptures nor the power of God.
v. 30  For in the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels of God in heaven.

Mark 12:24  Jesus answered and said to them, "Are you not therefore mistaken, because you do not know the Scriptures nor the power of God?
v.25  For when they rise from the dead, they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels in heaven.

If you have some idea that angels (spirit beings) could have sex, well Ray didn't believe that.

http://bible-truths.com/email12.htm ---------------------------------------------

[Ray Replies]

Gen. 6 has absolutely NOTHING to do with "fallen angels." The "sons of God" and the "daughters of men" is not speaking of mortals and spirit beings. This is just another one of Christendom's fables.

Jesus plainly told us that,

"Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the Scriptures, nor the power of God., For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage [why? why aren't they given in marriage? Answer....] ...but are AS THE ANGELS of God in heaven" (Matt. 22:30).

The angels CANNOT MARRY (they have no 'marriage apparatus' if you know what I mean). Yet we are told in Gen. 6:2, that "they took them WIVES of all which they chose." To have a "wife" one must be "MARRIED."   The sons of God and the daughters of men are BOTH HUMAN.

I believe that verse 4 of Gen. 6 is a terrible translation in the King James.  Since most translators have bought into the 'angels fornicating with women' theory, most of them have a very strange translation of this verse. There are whole words in this Hebrew verse that are not even translated at all in most versions.

Notice this translation from the Concordant Version:

"Now the DISTINGUISHED come to be in the earth in those days, and moreover, afterward, coming are those who are sons of God to the daughters of the human, and they bear for them. They are the MASTERS, who are from the eon, MORTALS with the name."

Sorry I don't have time to explain the meaning of all these verses, but at least I want you to know that this is not a case of angels fornicating with women.

God be with you,

Ray

[John from Kentucky]

Kat,

The reason I stated my beliefs on this matter in dark letters is because I knew there would be those who twist what I said.

To repeat, I do not know the answer to the question under discussion because the Scriptures do not tell us the answer.  There are not two witnesses directly on point.  Please reread this paragraph.

People quote all kinds of Scriptures, but they are not directly on point.

Those who have formed a conclusion on this matter are ignorant of the Scriptures because they cannot quote at least two Scriptures that directly backs up their opinion.

This question regarding sex does not offend me.  In fact, I am bored with the discussion.

What is offensive are those who have formed unscriptural opinions and cannot produce two witnesses in support of their opinions.  They think having a cheerleading section backs up unscriptural opinions.  Blind leading the blind.


    Also, you are being dishonest.  At the bottom of your post you bring up the sinning fallen angels issue, wrongly imply that I believe it, then quote Ray to refute it.  That is known as a straw man argument.  Not the first time I've been to a rodeo.  I wonder how many will be fooled by that little bit of dishonesty?


P.S.  You quote Jesus saying they will not marry in the Resurrection.  That is true.  But marriage and sex are two different things.  That is why they are two different words.  That is why Ray in his marriage article states that sex is not a requirement to form a valid marriage.  You need to carefully read Ray's study on marriage.

[Kat]

God's Words are Spirit, and They are Life, and must be spiritually discerned.

Either you believe this or you don't... and where are your 2 Scripture about sex? The Scripture have always been a mystery and many times are not direct. But to say pointing to what Jesus said about angels and heaven is not being direct, is absurd. You are really reaching to say that sex and marriage are 2 different things, of course they are, but the Scripture are clear that sex outside of marriage is wrong...

Heb 13:4  Let marriage be held in honor among all, and let the marriage bed be undefiled, for God will judge the sexually immoral and adulterous.

Your comment that I am being dishonest is just more of put downs that you are real fond of doing. That comment was in direct response to your saying "I do not know if there will be sexual relations in the age to come among spirit beings." That email was not speaking of fallen angels, nor was I, Ray starts out by saying "Gen. 6 has absolutely NOTHING to do with "fallen angels," I was showing that Ray did not believe angels have sex, that showing you Ray's opinion, since you have such low regard for what I say.

You try to intimidate, and show your teeth by ridiculing and saying rude things, but you don't scare me. I search the Scripture and Ray articles carefully and am not being careless in what I say.

mercy, peace and love
Kat