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Author Topic: As it was in the day of Noah.  (Read 12294 times)

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rick

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As it was in the day of Noah.
« on: March 04, 2015, 10:26:34 PM »

Why did Jesus reference Noah’s days concerning His return ?

Luk 17:27 tells me people will be taken by surprise ,you know life as usual.

I was not alive in Noah’s day but is there a difference between Noah’s time and ours ? 

Is not the wickedness of man great , not just in a particular region but world wide ?


Luk 17:26  When the Son of Man comes, things will be just as they were when Noah lived.

Luk 17:27  Everybody kept on eating and drinking, and men and women married, up to the very day Noah went into the boat and the flood came and killed them all.


Gen 6:5  And Jehovah saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.


Gen 6:7  And Jehovah said, I will destroy man whom I have created, from the face of the earth, both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air. For I repent that I have made them.

Gen 6:8  But Noah found grace in the eyes of Jehovah.
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lilitalienboi16

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Re: As it was in the day of Noah.
« Reply #1 on: March 05, 2015, 02:11:04 PM »

Hi Rick,

Well, I think there are some things that have come to pass right?

Matthew 24:11 "And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many."

Matthew 24:24-26 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. Behold, I have told you before.  Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.

We know even during the time of the apostles that the church had been infultrated here and there. They were eveyrwhere and we were told things would only get worse. How much more now, two thousand years later?

Matthew 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

This verse is interesting. Its similar to others including Isaiah and Revelation.

Isaiah 13:1 The burden of Babylon, which Isaiah the son of Amoz did see.
Isaiah 13:6 Howl ye; for the day of the Lord is at hand; it shall come as a destruction from the Almighty.
Isaiah 13:10 For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine.

Here is something similar:

Ezekiel 32:7 And when I shall put thee out, I will cover the heaven, and make the stars thereof dark; I will cover the sun with a cloud, and the moon shall not give her light.
Ezekiel 32:8 All the bright lights of heaven will I make dark over thee, and set darkness upon thy land, saith the Lord God.

Isaiah 24:3-6 3 The land shall be utterly emptied, and utterly spoiled: for the Lord hath spoken this word. The earth mourneth and fadeth away, the world languisheth and fadeth away, the haughty people of the earth do languish. The earth also is defiled under the inhabitants thereof; because they have transgressed the laws, changed the ordinance, broken the everlasting covenant. Therefore hath the curse devoured the earth, and they that dwell therein are desolate: therefore the inhabitants of the earth are burned, and few men left.

Isaiah 24:23 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the Lord shall punish the host of the high ones that are on high, and the kings of the earth upon the earth. And they shall be gathered together, as prisoners are gathered in the pit, and shall be shut up in the prison, and after many days shall they be visited. Then the moon shall be confounded, and the sun ashamed, when the Lord of hosts shall reign in mount Zion, and in Jerusalem, and before his ancients gloriously.

Joel 2:31 The sun will be turned to darkness and the moon to blood before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD.

Amos 5:20 Will not the day of the LORD be darkness, not light-- pitch-dark, without a ray of brightness?

Revelation 6:12 I watched as he opened the sixth seal. There was a great earthquake. The sun turned black like sackcloth made of goat hair, the whole moon turned blood red,
Revelation 6:13 and the stars in the sky fell to earth, as figs drop from a fig tree when shaken by a strong wind.
Revelation 6:14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.
Revelation 6:15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
Revelation 6:16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
Revelation 6:17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

The testimony of Jesus Christ, the one who is, was and will be. As for the great and terrible day of the Lord. I think we are witnessing some of these things coming to pass and we are much nearer than we were when we first believed. Has the sun be darkened? Does the world recieve God's light? Has the church (babylon), the moon, been turned to blood red? Does she reflect the light of God today? What of the stars? Are the heavens being shaken?

I have come to see the stars as the elect. Yet... the elect today no longer have the powers they did during the time of the apostles. At least I don't think they do. All that remains is faith, hope, and love. Though love is the greatest of all gifts.

Interesting stuff, we've talked many times about this, and its hard to know just how close we are. Is it yet another hundred years? A thousand? Fifty? I don't know exactly.. maybe someone with greater understanding will speak.

God bless,
Alex
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1 Cor 1:10 "Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment."

lurquer

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Re: As it was in the day of Noah.
« Reply #2 on: March 05, 2015, 03:25:38 PM »

I think Rick is probably aware of those scriptures in Isaiah and Ezekiel, especially, which seem to point to a cataclysm at the time of Christ's return. They are indeed "apocalyptic" words.

But the passages in Luke seem to show the world going on as "business as usual"...people eating, partying, having sex, etc. until suddenly, disaster comes upon them unawares.. (where are all the people hiding in caves?)

Probably his question was more in the line of 'how do we reconcile this with the other clearly apocalyptic scenes'?  Correct me if I'm wrong, Rick.
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lilitalienboi16

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Re: As it was in the day of Noah.
« Reply #3 on: March 05, 2015, 03:35:42 PM »

I think Rick is probably aware of those scriptures in Isaiah and Ezekiel, especially, which seem to point to a cataclysm at the time of Christ's return. They are indeed "apocalyptic" words.

But the passages in Luke seem to show the world going on as "business as usual"...people eating, partying, having sex, etc. until suddenly, disaster comes upon them unawares.. (where are all the people hiding in caves?)

Probably his question was more in the line of 'how do we reconcile this with the other clearly apocalyptic scenes'?  Correct me if I'm wrong, Rick.

Hi Neo,

I understand that Rick may have been looking for a different answer but I was merely trying to add more to the picture seeing as it is the SUM of the word that is truth.

Matthew's account of the return of Christ is important when considering luke's as well.

Interestingly in Acts peter says this during pentacost:

Acts 2
14 But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words:
15 For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day.
16 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;
17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:
18 And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:
19 And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke:
20 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and notable day of the Lord come:
21 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.

I don't think verse 20 and 21 that Peter quoted from Joel had yet to come to pass in Peter's time but I feel like its possible that we may be seeing those things coming to pass or having passed and now remains only a short while left.

To add more of Matthew:

Matthew 24
32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:
33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.

I don't think it hurts to have as much scripture on this topic as possible when trying to understand it.

God bless,
Alex
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1 Cor 1:10 "Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment."

Kat

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Re: As it was in the day of Noah.
« Reply #4 on: March 05, 2015, 06:18:47 PM »


Luke 17:26  And as it was in the days of Noah, so it will be also in the days of the Son of Man:
v. 27  They ate, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, and the flood came and destroyed them all.

This Scripture does seem to be saying that the world will be carrying on as usual when suddenly the Son of Man will appear. This age is about experiencing good and evil and it has been full of wickedness, it was at the time of Noah and is now and will be to it ends. So I think that is what Christ is saying, as it was then, it will be that way right up to the end of this age.

In Matthew 24 Christ gives this same prophecy of His return beginning in verse 29.

Mat 24:29  "Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.

So Christ says it's "after the tribulation of those days"... after the tribulation or all the difficulties of the days of the lives of the elect down through the centuries or when they are completed it's the end of this age. That's precisely when Christ returns and the start of the next age, when Christ has every elect that was predestined are prepared, then the time is ready.

Rev 6:9  When He opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the testimony which they held.
v. 10  And they cried with a loud voice, saying, "How long, O Lord, holy and true, until You judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?"
v. 11  Then a white robe was given to each of them; and it was said to them that they should rest a little while longer, until both the number of their fellow servants and their brethren, who would be killed as they were, was completed.

Back to verse 29 "...the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken." I can see how this is showing that Christ's appearing will be such a spectacular event, it would have to be the most incredible thing ever seen. So terrifying will it be that verse 30 says "all the tribes of the earth will mourn (CLV grieve)."

But there are many Scripture speaking of how brilliant Christ is in His glory and when He returns and literally appears, I think the world will actually 'see' Him. If you think about how it might be with His glorious appearance, I think that He would actually outshine the sun or it would appear darkened. I mean I don't think the sun will actually go dark or the stars fall, because they will still be needed. This is just saying His glory will literally outshine any physical thing, the sun, moon and the stars.

Here is a another verse you mentioned Alex.

Acts 2:20  The sun shall be turned into darkness, And the moon into blood, Before the day of the Lord come, That great and notable day.

In this Scripture that speaks of the moon turning to blood, that is speaking of the apostasy of the church and here is where Ray spoke about this.

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,5815.0.html -----

Peter thought, well this is the last days.  Now he was right, he was inspired to write that because God did start pouring out His Spirit on Pentecost. So that was the last days. How long do the last days last? Until they are over. It’s been a pretty long time. But he didn’t finish the prophecy, he quoted Joel, but he didn’t finish all of Joel. Because it doesn’t all fit then. But the portion that he did quote, it does fit then. 

You say, ‘but didn’t it mention heavenly signs.’ He said, you know these people aren’t drunk. These people are like the people that prophesied in Joel, where it says they shall dream dreams and see visions, all of that.  And the sun shall not give it’s light and the moon shall turn to blood. 

Acts 2:20  The sun shall be turned into darkness, And the moon into blood, Before the day of the Lord come, That great and notable day.

Did that happen on Pentecost? Yes it did! How so? How did the sun not give it’s light? How did the moon instead of reflecting light, turn to blood? 

Light is symbolic of God’s Truth. Jesus Christ is the light. The brightest physical symbol of light, brightness, this is our sun. So light comes from the strongest source. God - Jesus Christ is that light. 

John the Baptist said, “that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light,” (John 3:19). But He was that light. The Son gives light, that’s direct revelation from God.

Now the moon is the reflected light. That should come through the church and through the ministry. They get it from the Son. The moon (church) reflects it’s light from the Son (Christ), it doesn’t have it’s own light (Truth).  If the sun went out, the moon would go out, because the moon has no light, it’s reflected light. 
So as the ministry gets light, they give it to the congregation, they feed the sheep. 

But what did He say would happen, starting on Pentecost? The sun/Son isn’t going to give it’s light anymore.  God is not going to give direct light to the people anymore. The light that should be coming, that was already given to the moon, to be reflected, now it’s not going to give it’s light. It’s going to be turned to blood. What is this talking about?

Their revelation from God was going to cease. Apostasy is going to set in. The church is going to go amuck and instead of teaching the light from God and passing it on, they are going to turn to blood.  How so?

Well on that very day they stoned Stephen (Acts 7). Instead of giving light to the world as a secondary light, they turned to blood.  They turned murderers. 
Tomorrow we are going to go through and see how many men, who wanted to present God’s Word to everyday people like us, they had to pay with their lives. Well who would do such a dastardly thing? The moon! The secondary light of God’s Truth - the church - the Popes - the Bishops. If you even had…. you didn’t have to teach it or even read it, if you were found with a copy of Tyndale’s Bible, you were put to death. I mean it was pretty bad.

Tyndale was burned at the stake. Russ was burned at the stake, lots of people were burned at the stake. They kind of took the Catholics out of England for a while. Then bloody Mary came back and she wanted to bring back the Catholic church. Then she started burning people at the stake.  She said, ‘I’m not doing anything to these people, that God isn’t going to do to them for all eternity.  I’m not doing anything wrong.’ She didn’t see anything wrong with burning people at the stake. It’s unbelievable. 

Calvin didn’t see anything wrong with burning people at the stake either. That man is so adored by so many.  I mean considered the greatest theologian. He was, I mean absolutely the scum of the earth. 

Martin Luther although he did a lot of good things, you just read what his attitude was towards the peasants.  ‘Kill them all and make it dirty, make it fast.’ No mercy.

So it did start then. They went from teaching God’s Truth, they turned their hands to blood. They killed Stephen, a real saintly man, they killed him and gnawed on him with their teeth. They just despised that man.  You don’t know what hatred is. Like I’ve said so many times, hell hath no fury like a Christian who’s just been told the Truth.
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mercy, peace and love
Kat
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lilitalienboi16

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Re: As it was in the day of Noah.
« Reply #5 on: March 05, 2015, 06:27:18 PM »

Can't say I disagree Kat. Good addition. Thank you. I think we pretty much arrive to this conclusion each time and as of now there doesn't seem much else for us to say on this matter. Unless there is more in God's Word that is as of yet not made obvious to us. If that is the case, I have confidence He will reveal it to us in His time. I am happy with where we are on this matter currently though. It would be nice if His return to this physical earth a second time were near. I don't think Ray felt inspired to write his two tower papers without good reason. I yearn for that day, more than anything else, as many of you do here as well.

God bless,
Alex
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1 Cor 1:10 "Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment."

rick

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Re: As it was in the day of Noah.
« Reply #6 on: March 05, 2015, 09:03:05 PM »

Something was going on in Noah’s day that’s not being mentioned, throughout all generations people have always been eating and drinking and getting married.

Something was going on that was pretty bad because God performed a regional flood to put to death all in that region.
 
Do the angles that kept not their first estate have something to do with - as it was in the days of Noah so shall it be when the Son of man return?

Can this generation we live in now be considered like in the days of Noah ? Why did Jesus mention Noah’s day ? Why not as it was in the days of Abraham or king David or some other period of time ?

I don’t believe God killed many people because they were eating , drinking and getting married, no there must of been something horrendous going on at that time that will be going on at His return.
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lilitalienboi16

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Re: As it was in the day of Noah.
« Reply #7 on: March 05, 2015, 10:56:26 PM »

Something was going on in Noah’s day that’s not being mentioned, throughout all generations people have always been eating and drinking and getting married.

Something was going on that was pretty bad because God performed a regional flood to put to death all in that region.
 
Do the angles that kept not their first estate have something to do with - as it was in the days of Noah so shall it be when the Son of man return?

Can this generation we live in now be considered like in the days of Noah ? Why did Jesus mention Noah’s day ? Why not as it was in the days of Abraham or king David or some other period of time ?

I don’t believe God killed many people because they were eating , drinking and getting married, no there must of been something horrendous going on at that time that will be going on at His return.

Hi Rick,

Well Jesus also said this:

Luke 21:34 And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares.
Luke 21:35 For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth.


Matthew 24:42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.
Matthew 24:43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.
Matthew 24:44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.

 
Thess 5:1 But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.
Thess 5:2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
Thess 5:3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.
Thess 5:4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.
Thess 5:5 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.
Thess 5:6 Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.
Thess 5:7 For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night.
Thess 5:8 But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.

2 Peter 3:3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,
2 Peter 3:4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.
2 Peter 3:5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
2 Peter 3:6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:
2 Peter 3:7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
2 Peter 3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
2 Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

The day coming as a thief and as a snare upon the world doesn't make it seem like it will be too obvious except perhaps to the elect who are vigilantly watching that the end is about to come. So i'm not sure if there really has to be anything extremely grevious other than what has been going on since the beginning: earthquakes, disease, famine, rumors of war, wars etc..

God bless,
Alex
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1 Cor 1:10 "Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment."

rick

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Re: As it was in the day of Noah.
« Reply #8 on: March 06, 2015, 12:31:04 AM »

Hi Alex,

Jesus also said the truth will set you free, I’m a truth seeker , I believe all of us here are truth seeker.

There are answers to everything but not everything can be answered, I’m not superstitious nor do I believe in luck but in the sovereignty of God.
                  
I am confident that you know that every choice we make was caused by God an in spite of popular belief we know God’s counsel will stand an not ours.

The only choice I have is to see things the way God causes me to see things, once I believed I operated with free will, its incredible how one feels so free as if they are the captain of there own ship not realizing its God.

The deception I see is we cannot detect God with our senses and so we believe we originate everything but there is a good reason why God says we are not responsible but only accountable. 
I live life in the comfort and security of knowing God knows exactly what He is doing and I trust Jesus for my entire life which includes everything I think, do and say.
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Kat

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Re: As it was in the day of Noah.
« Reply #9 on: March 06, 2015, 01:19:12 AM »

Something was going on in Noah’s day that’s not being mentioned, throughout all generations people have always been eating and drinking and getting married.

Something was going on that was pretty bad because God performed a regional flood to put to death all in that region.
 
Do the angles that kept not their first estate have something to do with - as it was in the days of Noah so shall it be when the Son of man return?

Can this generation we live in now be considered like in the days of Noah ? Why did Jesus mention Noah’s day ? Why not as it was in the days of Abraham or king David or some other period of time ?

I don’t believe God killed many people because they were eating , drinking and getting married, no there must of been something horrendous going on at that time that will be going on at His return.

Mat 24:37  But as the days of Noah were, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be.

Well Rick, here is something to think about. Throughout the Scriptures, there are physical event to foreshadow something to come of great spiritual significance. The message in these shadow/types is so much more important than the event that foreshadows something and there are many parallels revealed in Noah's flood and Christ's return.

The ark represents Christ.
Noah/family is representative of the elect/few.
The flood represents judgment.

There was Noah... God spoke of him as righteous, he was one of only a few saved by or in the ark.

Gen 7:1  Then the LORD said to Noah, "Come into the ark, you and all your household, because I have seen that you are righteous before Me in this generation.

2Peter 2:5  and did not spare the ancient world, but saved Noah, one of eight people, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood on the world of the ungodly;

Here is the parallel... Noah=elect, they are righteous in God's eyes and chosen by God to be saved IN the ark=Christ.

2Tim 2:10  Therefore I endure all things for the sake of the elect, that they also may obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal (eonian) glory.

All the people, accept the few, perished and were destroyed by the flood in Noah's day, which is a parallel/shadow of judgment that will happen at the return of Christ.

Luke 17:27  They ate, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, and the flood came and destroyed them all.

2Th 1:8  in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ.
v. 9  These shall be punished with everlasting (eonian) destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power,
v. 10  when He comes, in that Day, to be glorified in His saints and to be admired among all those who believe, because our testimony among you was believed.

mercy, peace and love
Kat
« Last Edit: March 06, 2015, 09:19:07 PM by Kat »
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indianabob

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Re: As it was in the day of Noah.
« Reply #10 on: March 06, 2015, 03:00:16 PM »

Hello Rick,
Great thoughts to consider.

I don't see that there is any difference between Noah's Day and our recent century.
Just because we today don't suffer continuously as a result of our daily sins, does not mean that we are excusable. The reason people don't respond to chastisement is that the correction is not speedily applied. Our God is patient to the point of "long suffering", but God does keep an accounting. We get away with nothing. Every transgression will be addressed in the judgment. Even though evil people prosper, for the time being, they will not retain their ill gotten gain or benefit in the end.

I think that it is a natural mistake to think that we today are not as evil as those before the flood of waters took them. Actually we may be even more evil since we ignore the scripture given to guide us and they, if I understand, did not have that guidance. Each man was a law unto himself and did what was right in his own eyes.

One example today is that of changing the laws of the land, laws that God tells us to obey.

When I was younger, gambling was illegal because it led to the break up of families. Now the State promotes organized gambling in order to increase the tax base and it still breaks up families and impoverishes the elderly.

In the past, before medical birth control, most women and men avoided pregnancy outside of marriage by abstinence because of the social stigma and other penalties/hardships. Now the State pays for birth control, subsidizes fornication, authorizes abortion and participates financially in the murder of over a million infants each year in USA.

So my main point then is that we are, as a society, possibly more evil today than in the days of Noah. We have just learned by being immersed in it to excuse it and to avoid thinking about it and instead have pushed God out of our thinking.

We know from Scripture and the good laws of our society the difference between good and evil and therefore have no excuse. So to salve our conscience we call evil good and good evil and live in the mire of our private hog pen all dressed up in our Sunday best.

No flood of waters to destroy mankind this time. This time it will be an elemental fire of our own making falling upon our heads.

Indianabob.







Why did Jesus reference Noah’s days concerning His return ?

Luk 17:27 tells me people will be taken by surprise ,you know life as usual.

I was not alive in Noah’s day but is there a difference between Noah’s time and ours ? 

Is not the wickedness of man great , not just in a particular region but world wide ?


Luk 17:26  When the Son of Man comes, things will be just as they were when Noah lived.

Luk 17:27  Everybody kept on eating and drinking, and men and women married, up to the very day Noah went into the boat and the flood came and killed them all.


Gen 6:5  And Jehovah saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.


Gen 6:7  And Jehovah said, I will destroy man whom I have created, from the face of the earth, both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air. For I repent that I have made them.

Gen 6:8  But Noah found grace in the eyes of Jehovah.
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Joel

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Re: As it was in the day of Noah.
« Reply #11 on: March 07, 2015, 12:20:46 AM »

The way I see it the days of Noah was a time of warning before unexpected judgment.
I don't see it being any different at the second coming of JESUS.

Joel
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lurquer

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Re: As it was in the day of Noah.
« Reply #12 on: March 07, 2015, 11:41:40 AM »

There is much mystery still towards an understanding of the scriptures--and the words of Jesus--regarding the "Day"of His return.  If someone here can reconcile the two apparently irreconcilable positions of the Return coming as a "thief", in which no one expects it (especially not the church), AND a worldwide cataclysmic event which necessarily occurs AFTER the Resurrection of the Elect, I would be grateful to hear it.

Is there any doubt, though that His return shall come with a "Great Slaughter"?  As in the days of Noah, most will perish.  And they will die in fear and trembling... With the Elect removed, the rest of the church will experience this.  no?  (On the other hand, perhaps the Elect will remain, only to be protected by Christ as Noah was in the ark).

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This time it will be an elemental fire of our own making falling upon our heads.

"For Tophet is ordained of old; yea, for the king it is prepared; he hath made it deep and large: the pile thereof is fire and much wood; the breath of the Lord, like a stream of brimstone, doth kindle it."

Tophet: H8613, (Is.30:33), a place of burning and burying of dead bodies. 

The pyre is right now being prepared.  Is it in some sense quite literal?  The church teaches that Tophet is 'Hell'.  Its for others... What would be their reaction if they discovered their bodies will be piled on?

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Kat

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Re: As it was in the day of Noah.
« Reply #13 on: March 07, 2015, 02:08:00 PM »

The way I see it the days of Noah was a time of warning before unexpected judgment.
I don't see it being any different at the second coming of JESUS.

Joel

I think this is a very good point Joel. Noah was said to be a "preacher of righteousness" (2 Peter 2:5). So he was preaching/warning the people of the coming destruction. Another thing is the ark that was being built/prepared was a massive structure, it stood out very prominent, but nobody was convinced by Noah's preaching to go in with him. Well I think there is more parallels here.

The ark would have taken many years to be built and Noah was preaching and warning the people, he knew that God was about to bring the flood and there was only one way to be saved from it, the ark. Who believed him, accept his family?

So Noah prepared the ark, Christ said He was going to prepare a place for the elect.

John 14:2 In My Father's house are many mansions; if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

Christ stands out very prominent in the world today, but nobody understands (accept a very few) they must be IN Him to be saved. The church preach that you must have Him in your heart, they know nothing about being IN Him.

1John 5:20 And we know that the Son of God has come and has given us an understanding, that we may know Him who is true; and we are IN Him who is true, IN His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and eternal life.

So while Christ is making a place/kingdom ready for His elect, they will be spared from the day of destruction/judgment to come on the world.  Ray certainly was warning of the impending judgment, who believed him, accept the very few spiritual family/brethren?

2Peter 3:7  But the present heavens and the earth being kept in store by the same Word, are being kept for fire until the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men.

Rev 2:11  He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. He who overcomes will not be hurt by the second death.

mercy, peace and love
Kat
« Last Edit: March 07, 2015, 02:12:07 PM by Kat »
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Kat

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Re: As it was in the day of Noah.
« Reply #14 on: March 08, 2015, 12:13:36 AM »



There is much mystery still towards an understanding of the scriptures--and the words of Jesus--regarding the "Day"of His return.  If someone here can reconcile the two apparently irreconcilable positions of the Return coming as a "thief", in which no one expects it (especially not the church), AND a worldwide cataclysmic event which necessarily occurs AFTER the Resurrection of the Elect, I would be grateful to hear it.

Hi Michael, yes Christ will appear suddenly 'like' a thief, in that they come when you don't expects it. As we have been discussing Scripture seem to indicate that Christ's return is as in the day of Noah and things in the world will be going on as usual right up until that very moment. God saw that the "wickedness of man was great" then in Noah's time and it has been all the way through this age, the only thing that can change that is Christ's appearing.

The "worldwide cataclysmic event" I believe will happen at and because of the actual appearance of Christ Himself, that is earth shaking event Scriptures is speaking of, His coming, not something before that happens.   

But just think how the great God of the universe will appear when He reveals Himself from heaven... His glory will make the sun and moon seem as dark, the star seem to fall. He will be so magnificent and yet terrifying for those on earth as well.

Luke 21:25 "And there will be signs in the sun, in the moon, and in the stars; and on the earth distress of nations, with perplexity, the sea and the waves roaring;
v. 26 men's hearts failing them from fear and the expectation of those things which are coming on the earth, for the powers of the heavens will be shaken.
v. 27 Then they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.

Rev 6:15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every freeman, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains.
v. 16 And they said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us and hide us from the face of Him sitting on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb;
v. 17 for the great day of His wrath has come, and who will be able to stand?

Is there any doubt, though that His return shall come with a "Great Slaughter"?  As in the days of Noah, most will perish.  And they will die in fear and trembling... With the Elect removed, the rest of the church will experience this.  no?  (On the other hand, perhaps the Elect will remain, only to be protected by Christ as Noah was in the ark).

The "great tribulation" (Matt 24:21) is speaking of what happens in the lives of all the elect down through the centuries, not the world at the end of the age. Matthew 24 is speaking of what will be happening throughout this age, all the way down to verse 29 where it says "immediately AFTER the tribulation of those days," then Christ begins to speak of His second coming.

The events that occur are at His return and will be the most monumental thing this world has ever experienced. But I do NOT believe it will be a slaughter of the people on the earth, not even the wicked. What would be the point of that? Because all the dead are going to be resurrected to be judged after Christ returns in the next age. But there will be no literal slaughter and butchering of the people, that is not what Christ is about... not at all, that is the way of the wicked of this age. Christ returns to judge the world in righteousness.

Acts 17:31 because He has appointed a day on which He will judge the world in righteousness by the Man whom He has ordained. He has given assurance of this to all by raising Him from the dead."

Here is a where Ray explains this.

http://bible-truths.com/lake6.html -----------------------------

REVEALED AND TRIED BY FIRE

"Now if any man build upon this [spiritual] foundation [Christ] gold, silver, precious stones [godly character traits], wood, hay, stubble [carnal character traits]; Every man’s work [thoughts, words, and deeds] shall be made manifest [become known, come to light]: for the day shall declare it [make it evident], because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man’s work of what sort it is" (I Cor. 3:12-13).

The fire in these verses is no more literal than are the gold or stubble suggested as building materials. People do not construct large buildings out of gold, neither do they set them on fire after completion to see how well they will fare. This is all figurative and symbolic language to instruct us in much higher spiritual development. We are not literaI gardens of God neither are we literal buildings of God. But we are like gardens in certain ways—we are to produce good spiritual fruit. We are like buildings in certain ways—we are to be a spiritual dwelling place for God. We have works that are like gold and silver in certain ways—we have thoughts, words, and deeds of good and lasting value. We also have carnal and evil works—bad thoughts, crass words, and evil deeds that are of no lasting value and are only fit for destruction. Only God’s SPIRITUAL FIRE can burn away spiritual wickedness and evils of the heart.

All of these material items are used as symbols of spiritual things. Therefore, of necessity, the fire that tries these material symbols is also SPIRITUAL. It is not possible to burn up with fire an inanimate character flaw without burning up the person who harbors it. Likewise, it is not possible to purge and purify the good qualities of character in a person with literal fire without burning up the individual that possesses them. But spiritual fire, God’s all consuming, purging and purifying fire is perfectly suited to do just that. This trying and purging is not always pleasant, however, it is not a torture chamber either. Does this fire harm the person being purged in this fire?

SALVATION BY FIRE

No, our merciful and graceful loving God and Father does not eternally torture humanity IN fire, but rather eternally saves humanity BY fire.

Let’s read it and rejoice:

"Every man’s work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man’s work of what sort it is. If any man’s work abide which he has built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. If any man’s work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but HE HIMSELF SHALL BE SAVED; YET SO AS BY FIRE" (I Cor. 3:13-15).

Does everyone understand this? NO ONE is tortured, killed, or annihilated in this fire! This fire of God SAVES people who go through it! There is salvation BY means of this fire. This fire is part of God’s judgment and grace!


http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,4530.0.html -------------------

        The broad way leads to DESTRUCTION. The word "destruction" is derived from the Greek word "apollumi" which means to DESTROY, LOSE, PERISH.  And Jesus plainly (I say plainly to all those who have an ear to hear) told us that His purpose in coming for His Father (I John 4:14) is stated: "For the Son of Man is come to SAVE THAT WHICH IS LOST [Gk: 'appolumi']  (Matt. 18:11).

There it is. Jesus came to save all those who are 'appolumi,' which is most of humanity. Of course most Christians believe that He either LIED, or that He is INCAPABLE, or worse, DOESN'T WANT to save those who are 'appolumi'--LOST.

        Ya know, we could put those two Scritures closer together and then it would make perfect sense, but OH how Christian zealots hate to put Scriptures together. They call it "taking Scripture out of CONTEXT.  But as I really don't care what unscriptural Christians think, here goes:

        "Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leads to DESTRUCTION [but]... the Son of Man is come TO SAVE that which is LOST [by foolishly going in at the broad gate and are now, appolumi" (Matt. 7:13 & 18:11). There are literally hundreds more Scriptures which prove this teaching of the salvation of all.
--------------------------------------------------------

mercy, peace and love
Kat
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lilitalienboi16

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Re: As it was in the day of Noah.
« Reply #15 on: March 08, 2015, 12:43:17 AM »

Don't forget though what Ray said about literal prophecy too. Specifically that Isaiah is for a future time.

http://bible-truths.com/towers.htm -----------------------------Ray says;

Over the years I have been asked many times whether or not I thought the end of this world was near and the coming of our Lord was at hand? This question is usually asked with reference to some recent happening in the world, such as a war or rumor of wars, bad weather, famine, a new potential disease epidemic, some huge earthquake, volcano, hurricane, or a tsunami. These events are general, and have been with us for thousands of years. So my answer was always pretty much the same: "No, I do not believe that the end of the world is near, but certainly "…now our salvation is nearer than when we believed" (Rom.13:11). But that all changed on "September 11, 2001." This to me was not a "general" catastrophic happening as has been witnessed time and again, but this was a very specific catastrophe unlike anything before it.

[....]

"Every man also to whom God hath given riches and wealth, and hath given him power to eat thereof, and to take his portion, and to rejoice in his labour; this is the gift of God" (Ecc. 5:19).

"Both riches and honour come of thee, and thou reignest over all; and in thine hand is power and might; and in thine hand it is to make great, and to give strength unto all"  (I Chron. 29:12).

"But you shall remember the Lord your God for it is HE that gives you power to get wealth, that He may establish His covenant which He swore unto your fathers, as it is this day" (Deut. 8:18).

Since it is God Who empowers nations to get wealth, just who did God empower the most? The wealthiest nation on earth must figure into this declaration of God.

[....]

But this paper is not just about American prosperity, but also its responsibility toward God for that prosperity, as God also provided a disclaimer in the next verse showing the consequences should we turn from God:

[....]

"And it shall be, if you do at all forget the Lord your God, and walk after other gods, and serve them, and worship them, I testify against you this day that YOU SHALL SURELY PERISH" (Deut. 8:18-19).

"And it shall come to pass, if you shall hearken diligently unto the voice of the Lord your God, to observe and to do all His commandments which I command you this day, that the Lord your God will set you on high ABOVE ALL NATIONS OF THE EARTH.

And all these blessings shall come on you, and overtake you, if you shall hearken unto the voice of the lord your God. Blessed shall you be IN THE CITY…" (Deut. 28:1-3).

Israel was NEVER "...on high above all nations of the earth!"

So, if ancient Israel, historic Israel, and today's State of Israel, was not and is not, "above all nations of the earth," then who is above all?

....

America is, and New York City is the "center" of this Nations great power and wealth. Manhattan Island truly is The Island At The Center Of The World, and here is how it started:

[....]

ISAIAH 30:8  PUTS THIS PROPHECY WAY BEYOND HIS DAY

[....]


"Now go, write it before them in a table, and note it in a book, that it may be for the time to come for ever and ever" (Isa. 30:8).

"…and it shall come to be for the day hereafter, For the future, till the eon" (Concordant Literal Old Testament).

"…That it may serve for a latter day, For futurity, unto times age-abiding" (Rotherham’s Amplified Bible).

"…And it is for a latter day, for a witness unto the age" (Young’s Literal Translation).

Now then, it is easily seen that the above three versions include all the words, in the proper sequence, and with the proper translations. Young’s translation of "lod" (future), into "a witness," is a little weak, but certainly far more accurate than the King James family of Bibles which is "for EVER."

Here’s the simple truth of this phrase: This prophecy is principally for a "future day and time until or unto an age to come." This is speaking of a period of TRANSITION from one age to another age!   What may appear to be a phrase that many would think to be hazy and ambiguous, is in reality quite precise.


----------------------------------------

Isaiah does mark this period when this occurs as the day of great slaughter. Ray calls it a transition period from this age to the next. There may not be a "great tribulation" and a literal "Great slaughter" of humanity but we are told to watch so that the day does not overtake us as a thief. Perhaps the elect will be able to decipher the times though the rest of the christian world will be looking for some anti christ to sit on a literal throne in jerusalem to no avail. Then when that day comes it will be as a snare upon them and the world because they completely miss understood. I think its possible... By the grace of God I pray His spirit reveal to us with certainty. I just can't shake ray's certainty or dismiss it so easily as nothing but I also am not 100% sure currently either way. Maybe we have entered that "transition period" as ray called it and that day of Christ's return is much nearer than it ever has been before.

God bless,
Alex
« Last Edit: March 08, 2015, 01:47:00 AM by lilitalienboi16 »
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1 Cor 1:10 "Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment."

lurquer

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Re: As it was in the day of Noah.
« Reply #16 on: March 08, 2015, 01:41:58 AM »

What he said.

Plus, seems like scripture really hints at a "Great Slaughter".. wouldn't be a new thing anyway, just do a search on that phrase on E-sword or something,
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Kat

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Re: As it was in the day of Noah.
« Reply #17 on: March 08, 2015, 12:14:35 PM »


Hi Alex, though the return of Christ will be abrupt, a transition period for sure will be in order for the elect and the world. First He will attend to His elect, their flesh will instantaneously be changed to spirit (1Cor 15:52), then those elect still living will rise up and join the resurrected elect to finally meet Christ, right there in the air where He has presented Himself to the world. I would think this is the elect 'transition,' and the "marriage supper," they will join with Christ, be united and become one with God.

Rev 19:6  And I heard, as it were, the voice of a great multitude, as the sound of many waters and as the sound of mighty thunderings, saying, "Alleluia! For the Lord God Omnipotent reigns!
v. 7  Let us be glad and rejoice and give Him glory, for the marriage of the Lamb has come, and His wife has made herself ready."
v. 8  And to her it was granted to be arrayed in fine linen, clean and bright, for the fine linen is the righteous acts of the saints.
v. 9  Then he said to me, "Write: 'Blessed are those who are called to the marriage supper of the Lamb!' " And he said to me, "These are the true sayings of God."

Now I don't think the transition period for the rest of the world will not be so easy, they won't have a clue as to what is happening. The terrifying heavenly display will now descend right down to the earth.

Rev 21:1  Now I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away. Also there was no more sea.
v. 2  Then I, John, saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
v. 3  And I heard a loud voice from heaven saying, "Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they shall be His people. God Himself will be with them and be their God.

What happens immediately? Well it was revealed in Revelation...

Rev 19:11  Now I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse. And He who sat on him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and makes war.
v. 12  His eyes were like a flame of fire, and on His head were many crowns. He had a name written that no one knew except Himself.
v. 13  He was clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God.
v. 14  And the armies in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean, followed Him on white horses.
v. 15  Now out of His mouth goes a sharp sword, that with it He should strike the nations. And He Himself will rule them with a rod of iron. He Himself treads the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
v. 16  And He has on His robe and on His thigh a name written: KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS.

Now I don't see this as a violent takeover, not at all. Christ can subdue the nations by His voice alone... remember when He came down to Mount Sinai and spoke the commandments to the people, they were terrified.

Exo 20:18  Now all the people witnessed the thunderings, the lightning flashes, the sound of the trumpet, and the mountain smoking; and when the people saw it, they trembled and stood afar off.
v. 19  Then they said to Moses, "You speak with us, and we will hear; but let not God speak with us, lest we die."

Whatever Christ will do at His return one thing is for sure, He will finally bring peace from wars, crime and corruption, the curses put on Adam and Eve and the Serpent can be removed. Though at first it will probably be a tense peace. But God will be much more than just an Avenger to the world.

Rev 21:4  And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes; there shall be no more death, nor sorrow, nor crying. There shall be no more pain, for the former things have passed away."

Here is an interesting parable Alex, where Christ does tell us we can know when He will return, if we understand the parable.

Mat 24:32  "Now learn this parable from the fig tree: When its branch (is this Christ? Zec 3:8) has already become tender and puts forth leaves (is this elect?, Rev 22:2), you know that summer is near.
v. 33  So you also, when you see all these things, know that it is near—at the doors!
v. 34  Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place.

If this Branch is Christ, how does He begin to put forth leaves/elect when His return is "near"? Well where are all the elect down through the centuries since the Apostles? We don't know, they seem as though they were hidden from view. But the elect certainly are not hidden now... what do you think?

mercy, peace and love
Kat
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lurquer

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Re: As it was in the day of Noah.
« Reply #18 on: March 08, 2015, 02:28:07 PM »

Kat, I don't see it as a "violent takeover" either.  I think Christ's return will put an END to the slaughter.  It has already been happening prior to His unveiling.

Every age has ended with blood.  The age of Eden, the age of Noah, the age of the kingdom of Israel, the age of Judah and Jerusalem (70 AD)..  All (great) slaughters.  The end of all the ages is up next.  I'd like your view to be correct, but again, I just don't know how to square all the imagery of destruction and death seen by the prophets regarding the end of this age with your proposed peaceful, bloodless transition...

"Therefore hath the curse devoured the earth, and they that dwell therein are desolate: therefore the inhabitants of the earth are burned, and few men left."

And what is your understanding then of "Tophet"?
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Joel

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Re: As it was in the day of Noah.
« Reply #19 on: March 08, 2015, 02:42:12 PM »

God blinded Saul, burned the murderous evil spirit out of him, and made him as accepting, and willing as a baby lamb in one fell sweep. And also gave him a new name, how great is that?
Nothing is to hard for THE LORD!

Joel
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