God created the catch 22 agenda just for you.

[rick]

Have you ever found a peaceful situation just explode into irrational arguing and you ask yourself, how did that just happen? Or perhaps you had made plans and just before you were able to impalement them they just fell apart.

Does God have anything to do with only some aspect of our lives or every aspect of our lives ?  Just how sovereign is God anyways or rather I should say how sovereign do you think God is in your life or anyone else"s life ?

Are all things in life just a coincident or faith or a combination of both ? Jesus said of Himself He can do nothing, that statement in itself tells me Christ did not have free will, Christ also said no student is greater than his teacher.

Just how sovereign is God ? Does God control some of our lives while leaving other parts of our lives untouched or does He control all our lives leaving no part for us to exert any influence ?

We do have a choice but can one choose the cause that forces one to make a choice, free will, yeah right, not even in your dreams. 

[Kat]

Rick, here is a email that I think is very good in explaining the conundrum of God's sovereignty and our making choices. 

http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,2354.0.html ----

Dear Whirlwind:

You are not understanding this subject and the principle behind it. You ask: "Is it man making the choices or is it God's predestination of things?"  It is BOTH.  Listen:  God is SOVEREIGN! Man therefore has NO FREE WILL OR NO FREE CHOICE.  That's it. That's all there is to it.  That IS the principle. That IS the Truth.  That IS what the Bible teaches.  It is not a contradiction to say that "Man makes his own choices."  You and millions of other just think it is a contradiction to say man makes his own choices if indeed God is sovereign and God is behind all in His creation.  It is not a contradiction. It only sounds like a contradiction for those who do not believe that "God is Sovereign, and Man has no free will."

I hardly know what else to tell you.  God made man's heart. Man did not make his own heart, or his body, or his mind, or his brain, or his will, or his hopes and dreams.  They are all PREDESTINATED by the foreknowledge of God.  So then we don't make choices, right?  NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO....WE DO MAKE CHOICES.  It's just that they are CAUSED by things we can't always see.  Sometimes we can see what makes our choices and some times we can't, but either way THEY ARE CAUSED.  And God, not us, already knows in advance the outcome of all of those caused choices. How does He do that?  He is very smart (has over a 150 IQ), plus HE IS SOVEREIGN, ALL WISE, AND ALL POWERFUL.....and don't forget LOVE.

So, does God FORCE EVIL MEN TO RAPE LITTLE GIRLS?  Well, does He?  Does God being Sovereign prove that God forces evil men to rape little girls?  That's what evil theologians deduce from the truth of no free will.  They turn the Sovereignty of God into one of the biggest evils in the universe. If God is Sovereign, then God must be EVIL, because there is so much evil in the world, and God is in control of all things, right?  Wrong, wrong, wrong!  Man makes all his own choices. Just because they are CAUSED does not mean that he does not make them.  He is, in fact, CAUSED TO MAKE HIS CHOICES. But God does not directly do this. He is responsible, but He does not directly cause those choices. Things like the Devil do such things.  And who created the Devil?  That's right, that One Who is Sovereign and in charge of all things.  Evil men like raping just like evil theologians like stealing widow's social security money.  God doesn't make them do it--THEY LIKE TO DO IT.  They volunteer with little outside influence.  God made humanity this way. He created them spiritually weak.  Eve couldn't help but sin.  God has a good purpose and God will straighten it all out in the end.

I guess I could just keep writing and writing and writing and one day someone will say................OHHHHHH, now I get it.  Maybe today is your day. I'm pulling for ya!!!

God be with you,

Ray

[arion]

Rom 8:28  And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

The Concordant Literal Version

Rom 8:28 Now we are aware that God is working all together for the good of those who are loving God, who are called according to the purpose"

The CLV takes out the word 'things' as that isn't in the text.  If God is working out 'all' for that good then that means the irrational arguments and occasional temper tantrums as well.  It all serves a purpose in the greater plan somehow.

[Extol]

I really like what Ray said at the end of that email:

Maybe today is your day. I'm pulling for ya!!!

[John from Kentucky]

One Scripture that has helped my understanding, was when Jesus said that even little birds do not die without the leave of the Father.

Now that indicates an awesome involvement and attention to detail by God.

There is another Scripture which says that we live, and breathe, and have our being in God. 

God is always there, especially with His Elect in this age.

[daywalker]

 Proverbs 16:9 sums it up nice and simply:
A man's heart plans his course, but Yahweh directs his steps

Cheers!

[rick]

Rick, here is a email that I think is very good in explaining the conundrum of God's sovereignty and our making choices. 

http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,2354.0.html ----

Dear Whirlwind:

Listen:  God is SOVEREIGN! Man therefore has NO FREE WILL OR NO FREE CHOICE.  That's it. That's all there is to it.  That IS the principle. That IS the Truth.  That IS what the Bible teaches.  It is not a contradiction to say that "Man makes his own choices." 

Ray

That kinda sums up the sovereignty of God, its not complicated its simple, God rules His creation not the other way around.

I hope whirlwind got the right understanding after reading Rays reply.

I should also like to say that J from K and Daywalker got it right, also I would like to say thank you Kat too for bringing up that e- mail from Ray.

God bless you all.