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Author Topic: Gay Weddings  (Read 18526 times)

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Dennis Vogel

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Re: Gay Weddings
« Reply #40 on: April 05, 2015, 03:17:02 PM »

Words of wisdom Gina - It looks to me as though we are reverting back to the ways of Sodom. And we will pay the price someday.
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Rick

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Re: Gay Weddings
« Reply #41 on: April 05, 2015, 03:29:38 PM »

It seems to me that Jesus set the example for us to follow:

Luk 19:5  When Jesus came to that place, he looked up and said to Zacchaeus, "Hurry down, Zacchaeus, because I must stay in your house today."
Luk 19:6  Zacchaeus hurried down and welcomed him with great joy.
Luk 19:7  All the people who saw it started grumbling, "This man has gone as a guest to the home of a sinner!"

Luk 7:39  Now when the Pharisee which had bidden him saw it, he spake within himself, saying, This man, if he were a prophet, would have known who and what manner of woman this is that toucheth him: for she is a sinner.

Mat 9:11  And when the Pharisees saw it, they said unto his disciples, Why eateth your Master with publicans and sinners?
Mat 9:12  But when Jesus heard that, he said unto them, They that be whole need not a physician, but they that are sick.

Mat 11:19  The Son of man came eating and drinking, and they say, Behold a man gluttonous, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners. But wisdom is justified of her children.

It seems pretty clear to me......

 your PHYSICAL PRESENCE says A LOT about what you think is OKAY in the eye's of God.

God bless,
Alex



I disagree with that statement because one’s physical presences does not reveal the heart but one’s words does, from the abundance of the heart does the mouth speak.

One cannot possible know the motive of a persons heart because of their presence in any situation.

Lets try that out on Jesus, Mat 9:11  And when the Pharisees saw it, they said unto his disciples, Why eateth your Master with publicans and sinners?

Jesus is present with publicans and sinners, what does that say about Jesus in the eyes of the Father ? You see what I mean Alex.

And by the way, Jesus is present at every gay marriage at every murder at every crime scene.
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lilitalienboi16

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Re: Gay Weddings
« Reply #42 on: April 05, 2015, 03:36:56 PM »

Hi everyone,

I've been reading your posts and replies.  Yes, it's a very hypothetical question.  My belief is this:  If you have to ask, the answer is a big no.  And, when in doubt, do nothing.  Say nothing.  The answer will come to you.

As for those who say that Jesus ate with publicans and sinners, true and the reason He did that was not to PARTY with them and celebrate THEM.  Jesus came to SAVE SINNERS.  I'm not perfect and I'm not that smart, and I've found myself in situations that I thought I could handle.  But the truth of the matter is, I was somewhere where i had no business being. 

I believe that when our relationship with Christ is on the level that it should be, yes, you may know and work with gays and lesbians but they would know you well enough to know that inviting you to their wedding would be akin to asking you to set aside your beliefs.

When Paul condemned sexual sin he didn't then say, but go hang out with them. 

Do not be misled: "Bad company corrupts good character."  (1 Cor. 15:33) 

We all have problems and struggle with our sin.  That is a good sign that your heart is inclined toward doing what is right.

And there are gays and lesbians here who read Ray's writings and one that I know of who is a member of this forum whose name I will not divulge.  I'm not going to "out" him.   He loves Ray.  He struggles with his desires.  So this is not a person who doesn't want to please God. 

Isaiah says:  I am the high and the lofty One, and I also dwell (eat and drink symbolically speaking) with the CONTRITE and LOWLY IN SPIRIT.   (those who are feeling SORROW FOR THEIR OWN SINS AND SHORTCOMINGS)

THOSE are the kinds of people Jesus ate and drank with, for those are clearly UNclear on the matter.

Imagine Jesus or Paul being invited to a gay wedding and as if that weren't strange enough, then imagine them contemplating whether or not they should attend it. 

Imagine Ray being invited to a gay wedding and attending.

So, tell me this:  When your friends want to marry more than one person, or their pet and they invite you, will you scratch your heads and ask, Gee, what would Jesus do?

Jesus doesn't love US the way we are.  He loves us from WHAT we are.  Only the devil loves you the way you are.  And if you're that worried about offending someone of that mindset and think, Well, if they invite me then I'll go because after all, I'm not supposed to judge them, then you are now guilty of loving mother, father, brother, sister, son / daughter and friends MORE than God and you cannot be His disciple.   

I'm not saying hate these people who do those things.   When Paul said, I don't judge those on the outside but on the inside, what he means is, he doesn't get ENTANGLED IN THE WORLD'S AFFAIRS.  That's what he was saying.  Why do you think he told the Corinthians to throw the man out who was sleeping with his father's wife?  Because he didn't want them being entangled with anyone who was obviously still entangled in sin.  Just throw him out.  Don't kill him, don't murder him, don't call the police, just throw him out till he's had his fill of "pleasure," and when he sees he's for himself that he's wallowing in sin like pig and wants to come back, then let him come back, and drop the matter. 

How do you separate yourself from those sins and then partake in the celebrating of them at the same time, huh?  Paul didn't say you couldn't eat with gays and lesbians, etc., etc., did he?  No, he didn't.   He said you couldn't eat with anyone who calls themselves a Christian and does those things. 

Now, how many gays and lesbians AFFIRM what they're doing and call themselves Christians?  Many.  (I'm not talking about the ones who are struggling and feeling contrite over their sins, believe me.  There is a difference.  And one gay/lesbian fleeting thought or fling does not a homosexual make, that's clear.)

We are all guilty as hell of ALL.  But don't let your guilty conscience weaken you to the point that you feel pity for these people and go party with them in their sin.  You may as well be going to celebrate a future train wreck!  And what will your response be to them when God touches their eyes and THEY SEE their own sin?  Will you say, Well, I was only trying to be nice.   No, you were trying to not offend them. 

Assuming your walk with Christ is so weak that you would be invited by gays and lesbians to celebrate their "marriage," all you have to say is:  OH, boy!  Look at the time.  I really have to be CLEAN MY SHOWER!

Or, I'M SORRY BUT I'VE BEEN INVITED TO ANOTHER WEDDING THAT DAY. 

Or, I'M SORRY BUT I HAVE TO GO SHOPPING THAT DAY.

If you are so WEAK in your faith that you feel you must GO BACK into the world to offer comfort to sinners who just LOVE to be comforted by you and to be told that what they're doing is not so bad, and that God loves them just the way they are, YOU misunderstand.

Paul said, that f-r-i-e-n-d-s-h-i-p  (he didn't say you couldn't eat a meal with or do business) with the world is emnity with God (that is deep seated hatred).  Remember, the Samaritan, as Ray aptly pointed out, took the man who was beat and robbed to a hospital and had THEM nurse the man back to health.  The Samaritan didn't nurse him back to health.  Doesn't say whether he became friends with him and started playing tennis with him or going to parties and all of that. 

You might think you're strong enough and holy and righteous enough to be able to withstand the attacks of the adversary, but  you don't even realize that the attacks from the adversary are coming at you wrapped up in a beautiful velvet rainbow colored glove, With "love."   

You're naive.   

When you up and go to a gay or lesbian wedding this is ultimately what you're affirming: 

http://thefederalist.com/2015/03/17/dear-gay-community-your-kids-are-hurting/

God bless you all.  I can't even believe that we have to have this discussion.  There should have been no question about this issue. 

Octoberose, thank you very much for your willingness to say what you said.  I know you didn't mean to come off rude, and from my standpoint, you did not.  We're in the same as you know.  My daughter informed me a year ago that she was going to marry her girlfriend since her own adoptive grandfather had instructed her throughout her life to "not date bozos," which, to her meant date girls.   

And for those who might misunderstand what I'm about personally:  Nobody's telling gays and lesbians that they must become attracted to and marry the opposite sex.   Nobody's telling you that that is what you must do.  I certainly am not.  But if the lifestyle were to be affirmed to the point of marriage, and if it doesn't harm anyone, then why oh why are so many doing Youtube videos about how they've abandoned their lifestyle and feeling sorrow for their choice, huh?  These are beautiful people whom God loves and these are those whom Isaiah said He dwells with.

God bless.  And please don't take offense at anything I've said here.  It's all the truth and you know it.

Beautiful Gina. A big hearty amen dear sister. I think that is the nail in the coffin as far as I'm concerned.

God bless,
Alex
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1 Cor 1:10 "Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment."

lilitalienboi16

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Re: Gay Weddings
« Reply #43 on: April 05, 2015, 03:41:22 PM »

It seems to me that Jesus set the example for us to follow:

Luk 19:5  When Jesus came to that place, he looked up and said to Zacchaeus, "Hurry down, Zacchaeus, because I must stay in your house today."
Luk 19:6  Zacchaeus hurried down and welcomed him with great joy.
Luk 19:7  All the people who saw it started grumbling, "This man has gone as a guest to the home of a sinner!"

Luk 7:39  Now when the Pharisee which had bidden him saw it, he spake within himself, saying, This man, if he were a prophet, would have known who and what manner of woman this is that toucheth him: for she is a sinner.

Mat 9:11  And when the Pharisees saw it, they said unto his disciples, Why eateth your Master with publicans and sinners?
Mat 9:12  But when Jesus heard that, he said unto them, They that be whole need not a physician, but they that are sick.

Mat 11:19  The Son of man came eating and drinking, and they say, Behold a man gluttonous, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners. But wisdom is justified of her children.

It seems pretty clear to me......

 your PHYSICAL PRESENCE says A LOT about what you think is OKAY in the eye's of God.

God bless,
Alex



I disagree with that statement because one’s physical presences does not reveal the heart but one’s words does, from the abundance of the heart does the mouth speak.

One cannot possible know the motive of a persons heart because of their presence in any situation.

Lets try that out on Jesus, Mat 9:11  And when the Pharisees saw it, they said unto his disciples, Why eateth your Master with publicans and sinners?

Jesus is present with publicans and sinners, what does that say about Jesus in the eyes of the Father ? You see what I mean Alex.

And by the way, Jesus is present at every gay marriage at every murder at every crime scene.

Rick,

You need to learn to read more carefully dear brother. Let's take a look at what I said again;

"So this is where I am at and I just don't see Jesus celebrating any sinful behavior, not even at the ceremony for the joining of two gay couples. Some people have stated they could attend a gay marriage without celebrating with those at the wedding but I suppose then it becomes a slippery slope. Ray said that marriage was one of the few things in this world that God made for us to observe PHYSICALLY and not spiritually. We don't spiritually marry other people and we don't get spiritual divorces. In the same way, your PHYSICAL PRESENCE says A LOT about what you think is OKAY in the eye's of God."

"In the same way [As in what ray said about how marriage is one of the few things God admonishes us to observe PHYSICALLY]," "Your physical PRESENCE [AT THAT MARRIAGE]" says A LOT about what you think is OKAY [I.E. Acceptable behavior, such as the joining of two gay people at this wedding] in the eye's of God.

If you don't think ray said this about marriage then go back and listen to the audio on marriage. It was the whole reason he made such a point about the physical papers and ceremony taking place for a marriage to be valid in God's eyes. Its very much about the PHYSICAL as far as God and MARRIAGE are concerned.

In Christ,
Alex
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1 Cor 1:10 "Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment."

Rick

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Re: Gay Weddings
« Reply #44 on: April 05, 2015, 03:47:31 PM »

It looks to me as though we are reverting back to the ways of Sodom. And we will pay the price someday.

It certainly appears that way, it seems to me the whole world is upside down, I wonder just how bad things are going to get in these last days.

What I’m confused about is how do all the sins in this life make us in the image of God ? Sometimes I think most are being made in the image of Satan rather than God.
 
But having said that I must also say God created evil for the very purpose of making us in His image and that is a mystery to me. But I trust in Christ to see everyone through.
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lauriellen

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Re: Gay Weddings
« Reply #45 on: April 05, 2015, 04:03:13 PM »

Just my opinion, but once you start making a 'sin' (attending a gay wedding) something that is not explicitly stated as a 'sin' in the bible, it is a slippery slope into all kinds of legalism....then, you could say that it is a 'sin' to attend a Christmas/easter/valentines/holloween  party because it would be celebrating something historically 'pagan' (an abomination)......then you could say it is a 'sin'  for women to wear makeup or jewelry because it 'celebrates' vanity (a sin)....smacks very much of how the WWCOG operated, even resorted to having members spy on each other and tattle on each other if they were caught wearing makeup in public or attending an event on the Sabbath. If God is ordering our steps (as I believe He is), we will be led to do or not do whatever He has already planned in each situation.
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lurquer

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Re: Gay Weddings
« Reply #46 on: April 05, 2015, 04:23:15 PM »

I’m not really sure who is arguing what in this thread.

It seems like the consensus is it would be “unchristian” to attend a “gay wedding”.  That would be the  rational  viewpoint if so.  If there are any here actually arguing for the contrary opinion,  I don’t see it.  You certainly haven’t articulated it anyway.

It’s sort of a ridiculous discussion anyway, as others pointed out that any “hypothetical” invitation to a “gay wedding” would mean you, as a guest, must have absolutely no form of goldliness (else why would anyone think you’d WANT to attend such an event)? And if you have a moral objection to the sin of homosexuality and the belief that God established marriage--and only His definition is the True one—then why is it such a conundrum for you?  And if you don’t believe those two facts, why do you even bother calling yourself a follower of Christ?  Why are you even here?

Some may be confused though as to the actual nature of the question … allow me to divide the wheat from the chaff. 

Alex seems to be anti-attendance minded on the matter.  (As would I be—not that it matters).  But he is FOR “gay marriage rights”.  This is the real kernel of the discussion I think.  Because for one thing, there are no such things as “rights” at all.  What we have are STATUTES (arbitrarily) written by MEN, who have mostly no regard for God and His Laws.  Whether or not two people can call themselves by the name of a particular type of Union which GOD defined is one thing.  You can call yourself a baked potato and most people could care less.  But it is when the LAW (the human law under which we are bound by human rulers,  enforced by other humans who are armed and will inflict pain, loss or death for violating said laws) REQUIRES those of us who morally object, to nevertheless ACCEPT (and OBEY) these manmade statutes that we run into some serious problems.  If I must ACCEPT you as a baked potato, now I have issue.

But the kernel is far more rotted than that. It is one thing to revel in your sin. The whole world is awash in sin and wickedness.  It is another lower, darker level of malevolence to attempt to REDIFINE your sin as Not Sin.  And one notch below that is attempting to persuade others (children, feeble-minded, intellectually or morally lazy persons) that their EVIL is actually GOOD.  And that, in a nutshell, is the “culture” we find ourselves in today.

So homosexual behavior is NOT sin, and a “Union” between such people engaging in this is just as valid as your union as a husband and wife.  This is what we are told to accept.  This is what we DO accept when we do not OBJECT.

Ironically, someone posted a passage from an unknown (and I’d wager dubious) translation of Romans 14 as “Blessed are those who don't feel guilty for doing something they have decided is right.”   No.  No, No, NO.  At least in the context of this discussion, this is exactly the WRONG thing.  Sinners who have “decided” that “gay love” is RIGHT and therefore have removed all guilt NOW decide that YOU MUST EMBRACE their decision. They, in fact, are the "blessed ones".

Don’t let that escape your knowledge.  That is the end game—to re-educate all of us backward-thinking people.  That is the prize.
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zvezda

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Re: Gay Weddings
« Reply #47 on: April 05, 2015, 04:38:45 PM »

Some people have stated they could attend a gay marriage without celebrating with those at the wedding but I suppose then it becomes a slippery slope.

I suppose you were referring to my posts. I said that because I once was invited to a baptism, every time the pastor finished baptising a member, the whole crowd would sing 'happy day... happy day..." I didn't sing with them or pray with them, when they were parying together, I said a different prayer in my heart instead. Only God knows my heart was not celebrating with them and actually I was crying inside seeing that they were still in babylon. With God's help, I was able to separate my heart/spirit from the celebration. It's just my personal experience.
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Rick

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Re: Gay Weddings
« Reply #48 on: April 05, 2015, 04:42:29 PM »

It seems to me that Jesus set the example for us to follow:

Luk 19:5  When Jesus came to that place, he looked up and said to Zacchaeus, "Hurry down, Zacchaeus, because I must stay in your house today."
Luk 19:6  Zacchaeus hurried down and welcomed him with great joy.
Luk 19:7  All the people who saw it started grumbling, "This man has gone as a guest to the home of a sinner!"

Luk 7:39  Now when the Pharisee which had bidden him saw it, he spake within himself, saying, This man, if he were a prophet, would have known who and what manner of woman this is that toucheth him: for she is a sinner.

Mat 9:11  And when the Pharisees saw it, they said unto his disciples, Why eateth your Master with publicans and sinners?
Mat 9:12  But when Jesus heard that, he said unto them, They that be whole need not a physician, but they that are sick.

Mat 11:19  The Son of man came eating and drinking, and they say, Behold a man gluttonous, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners. But wisdom is justified of her children.

It seems pretty clear to me......

 your PHYSICAL PRESENCE says A LOT about what you think is OKAY in the eye's of God.

God bless,
Alex



I disagree with that statement because one’s physical presences does not reveal the heart but one’s words does, from the abundance of the heart does the mouth speak.

One cannot possible know the motive of a persons heart because of their presence in any situation.

Lets try that out on Jesus, Mat 9:11  And when the Pharisees saw it, they said unto his disciples, Why eateth your Master with publicans and sinners?

Jesus is present with publicans and sinners, what does that say about Jesus in the eyes of the Father ? You see what I mean Alex.

And by the way, Jesus is present at every gay marriage at every murder at every crime scene.

Rick,

You need to learn to read more carefully dear brother. Let's take a look at what I said again;

"So this is where I am at and I just don't see Jesus celebrating any sinful behavior, not even at the ceremony for the joining of two gay couples. Some people have stated they could attend a gay marriage without celebrating with those at the wedding but I suppose then it becomes a slippery slope. Ray said that marriage was one of the few things in this world that God made for us to observe PHYSICALLY and not spiritually. We don't spiritually marry other people and we don't get spiritual divorces. In the same way, your PHYSICAL PRESENCE says A LOT about what you think is OKAY in the eye's of God."

"In the same way [As in what ray said about how marriage is one of the few things God admonishes us to observe PHYSICALLY]," "Your physical PRESENCE [AT THAT MARRIAGE]" says A LOT about what you think is OKAY [I.E. Acceptable behavior, such as the joining of two gay people at this wedding] in the eye's of God.

If you don't think ray said this about marriage then go back and listen to the audio on marriage. It was the whole reason he made such a point about the physical papers and ceremony taking place for a marriage to be valid in God's eyes. Its very much about the PHYSICAL as far as God and MARRIAGE are concerned.

In Christ,
Alex
Alex, I agree with you,  I certainly don’t see Jesus celebrating a gay marriage either.

The world is being condition to except all types of life styles by what is referred to as politically correct, if you say anything against homosexuals then that makes you a homophobe ,a bigot and a racist too and anything else they can paint you with...lol it’s the way of the world , the world God made and the evil He created to be in the world He made.

You said you are ok with gay marriage rights, that’s the politically right thing to say, yet you would feel uncomfortable catering a gay marriage, that is a contradiction.

I don’t believe in gay marriage rights and I don’t believe in gay marriage because of my belief in God, its wrong just like stealing is wrong or murder is wrong, but I don’t look at gay people as if they are monsters either, they are human beings just like me.

However if I were a florist I would not have an issue with catering a gay marriage however if I see guys kissing each other I would have an issue with that and not complete my job there.

If I were invited to a gay marriage I would say no thank you, I would not participate in what I believe is the wrong thing to do and yet I participate every day in wrong doing, its called personal sins, I know there is a time set aside where I will have to answer for my sinfulness.

 
Someone just did a tread about three guys getting married , there is no end to the sinfulness of people until Christ returns yet Paul the apostle said he was the worst sinner on earth, are these gay people worst than Paul ? Not according to Paul their not.
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Gina

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Re: Gay Weddings
« Reply #49 on: April 05, 2015, 05:10:46 PM »

Just my opinion, but once you start making a 'sin' (attending a gay wedding) something that is not explicitly stated as a 'sin' in the bible, it is a slippery slope into all kinds of legalism....then, you could say that it is a 'sin' to attend a Christmas/easter/valentines/holloween  party because it would be celebrating something historically 'pagan' (an abomination)......then you could say it is a 'sin'  for women to wear makeup or jewelry because it 'celebrates' vanity (a sin)....smacks very much of how the WWCOG operated, even resorted to having members spy on each other and tattle on each other if they were caught wearing makeup in public or attending an event on the Sabbath. If God is ordering our steps (as I believe He is), we will be led to do or not do whatever He has already planned in each situation.

Well, we're not in the WWCOG anymore, are we. 

What you're doing is comparing apples and oranges because you have not even begun to heal from the hurt of what you experienced in that church by those who used you miserably and took advantage of the unsuspecting.

Celebrating your Lord and Savior on Passover and calling it "Easter," and wearing makeup to cover up skin imperfections or to make your lashes stand out or to thin out or fill in your eye brows is a far cry from celebrating sexual sin and walking down the street dressed up like a Vegas Show Girl for the express purpose of drawing attention to yourself for whatever reason.

This post isn't about those things.  But since you asked, if the house needs paintin', paint it.  :)

And it seems to me if you can overlook gays and lesbian marriage to the point that you would celebrate it.  You would be willing to at least consider forgiving Herbert W. Armstrong and his ilk for their sins. 

But what you're saying is:  if Armstrong wanted to marry his daughter (!)  or Garner his many (200) women, you would have no problem witnessing that.  That's really what you're saying, because anything else would be "legalism," and what?  God doesn't abide by a system of laws?  God doesn't operate by the counsel of his own will?  As if to say that even God isn't BOUND by and operates according to w-i-s-d-o-m?

Do you condone the sexual sin of MISUSE of others on one level simply because it's being committed by people you like?  But then turn around and totally condemn it on another simply because it's being committed by people who have misused you?

Laurie, you're a very tenderhearted person, and I know you have had a difficult life , and I don't want to come down on you too hard, but let's judge rightly and not by appearance. 

So someone you like and treats you well, sins sexually, so you're going to relax your standards, whereas someone you thought you could trust spies on how much makeup you're wearing and you pull rank and say it's wrong?  What do we have here?  A double standard?

You can be sure that anyone who is doing their best to follow Jesus by remembering Him though they might flub up and call Passover by another "pagan" name, is not someone who is blatantly despising the word of God.  It's not the same thing, Laurie.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2015, 05:19:33 PM by Gina »
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Rick

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Re: Gay Weddings
« Reply #50 on: April 05, 2015, 05:18:02 PM »


  I am not upbraiding nonbelievers - I'm upbraiding you.

Its amazing how we all come here to B.T. knowing something is just not right with what we were being taught by Christendom, we all came here with our false doctrine and preconceived ideas of what should or shouldn’t be.

Then we start to learn the real truth and the real truth upbraids us .  :)
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lauriellen

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Re: Gay Weddings
« Reply #51 on: April 05, 2015, 05:31:59 PM »

Gina, you don't know what is in my heart. Only God does. I have not said that I would attend a gay wedding or not, but you can bet I won't be asking your permission if the invitation comes. I have one God and He will lead me to attend or not according to His purpose for MY life....it is not my place to judge what He does in your life.....that is between you and Him.
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lilitalienboi16

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Re: Gay Weddings
« Reply #52 on: April 05, 2015, 05:48:01 PM »

Dear zveda,

I was not refering to you when I made that statement. In fact, the person I had in mind I don't believe actually even said that so no need to worry. I hope the point I was making that followed that statement though is not lost on that account.

God bless,
Alex
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Gina

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Re: Gay Weddings
« Reply #53 on: April 05, 2015, 06:01:05 PM »

Gina, you don't know what is in my heart. Only God does. I have not said that I would attend a gay wedding or not, but you can bet I won't be asking your permission if the invitation comes. I have one God and He will lead me to attend or not according to His purpose for MY life....it is not my place to judge what He does in your life.....that is between you and Him.

If a person is sinning willfully and without a struggle then God hasn't begun a work in that person.
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Dave in Tenn

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Re: Gay Weddings
« Reply #54 on: April 05, 2015, 06:51:47 PM »

You assume there is no struggle, Gina.  That's wrong.

Some seem very sure of what Jesus would have hypothetically done.  You may well be right.  Me?  I'm a little less sure.  Or of what He would have done and said instead (or maybe when He got there).  I do see what He DID do, however  He said things that only His disciples understood, and even then only after He explained them...and even then often only after they gained some experience of His Spirit.

Since we're quoting scripture here (and at least sometimes with the assumption that they contradict), here's MAYBE a relevant passage (with two undeniable witnesses):

Luk 7:31  And the Lord said, Whereunto then shall I liken the men of this generation? and to what are they like?
Luk 7:32  They are like unto children sitting in the marketplace, and calling one to another, and saying, We have piped unto you, and ye have not danced; we have mourned to you, and ye have not wept.
Luk 7:33  For John the Baptist came neither eating bread nor drinking wine; and ye say, He hath a devil.
Luk 7:34  The Son of man is come eating and drinking; and ye say, Behold a gluttonous man, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners!
Luk 7:35  But wisdom is justified of all her children.

Mat 11:16  "But to what shall I compare the present generation? It is like children sitting in the open places, who call to their playmates.
Mat 11:17  "'We have played the flute to you,' they say, 'and you have not danced: we have sung dirges, and you have not beaten your breasts.'
Mat 11:18  "For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, 'He has a demon.'
Mat 11:19  The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they exclaim, 'See this man! --given to gluttony and tippling, and a friend of tax-gatherers and notorious sinners!' And yet Wisdom is vindicated by her actions."

I also can't forget what He did do...not hypothetically (or even symbolically) but REALLY.  While we were yet sinners, He died for us.  And unless the Calvinists are right, He died for all of us, not just those to whom He gives faith to believe.

More power to you if you can create a law which automatically and without any further thought forbids you to hypothetically go to a "gay wedding".  I'm not going to pipe and expect you to dance.  And lest you think I also don't know that "they" are expecting the same thing, I do know that.  But in all likelihood (I can only state the obvious here) I'm not talking to them but to "us".  That's where Judgement begins, or we miss the point of the Sermon on the Mount.

I didn't leave the church because I thought they were a pack of hypocrites...though some clearly were.  Most were far more 'morally upright' than I could manage.  I 'left' because their so-called 'gospel' didn't sound like such good news any more, to a sinner.  Maybe we (I) should spend some times considering what our 'message' IS to sinners...and apply it to ourselves first.  They gave the likes of me no hope.  From their perspective under the law, they were right.  It wasn't that their message was "wrong". it was (simply and flatly put) worthless.

Maybe it isn't 'worthless' to everybody.  Lots of people have better lives because of their 'faith'.  But some of us didn't.             
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Heb 10:32  But you must continue to remember those earlier days, how after you were enlightened you endured a hard and painful struggle.

Dennis Vogel

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Re: Gay Weddings
« Reply #55 on: April 05, 2015, 07:31:52 PM »

"I shall not today attempt further to define the kinds of material I understand to be embraced within that shorthand description [hard-core pornography]; and perhaps I could never succeed in intelligibly doing so. But I know it when I see it:" Potter Stewart
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Gina

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Re: Gay Weddings
« Reply #56 on: April 05, 2015, 07:41:48 PM »

You assume there is no struggle, Gina.  That's wrong.

Some seem very sure of what Jesus would have hypothetically done.  You may well be right.  Me?  I'm a little less sure.  Or of what He would have done and said instead (or maybe when He got there).  I do see what He DID do, however  He said things that only His disciples understood, and even then only after He explained them...and even then often only after they gained some experience of His Spirit.

Since we're quoting scripture here (and at least sometimes with the assumption that they contradict), here's MAYBE a relevant passage (with two undeniable witnesses):

Luk 7:31  And the Lord said, Whereunto then shall I liken the men of this generation? and to what are they like?
Luk 7:32  They are like unto children sitting in the marketplace, and calling one to another, and saying, We have piped unto you, and ye have not danced; we have mourned to you, and ye have not wept.
Luk 7:33  For John the Baptist came neither eating bread nor drinking wine; and ye say, He hath a devil.
Luk 7:34  The Son of man is come eating and drinking; and ye say, Behold a gluttonous man, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners!
Luk 7:35  But wisdom is justified of all her children.

Mat 11:16  "But to what shall I compare the present generation? It is like children sitting in the open places, who call to their playmates.
Mat 11:17  "'We have played the flute to you,' they say, 'and you have not danced: we have sung dirges, and you have not beaten your breasts.'
Mat 11:18  "For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, 'He has a demon.'
Mat 11:19  The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they exclaim, 'See this man! --given to gluttony and tippling, and a friend of tax-gatherers and notorious sinners!' And yet Wisdom is vindicated by her actions."

I also can't forget what He did do...not hypothetically (or even symbolically) but REALLY.  While we were yet sinners, He died for us.  And unless the Calvinists are right, He died for all of us, not just those to whom He gives faith to believe.

More power to you if you can create a law which automatically and without any further thought forbids you to hypothetically go to a "gay wedding".  I'm not going to pipe and expect you to dance.  And lest you think I also don't know that "they" are expecting the same thing, I do know that.  But in all likelihood (I can only state the obvious here) I'm not talking to them but to "us".  That's where Judgement begins, or we miss the point of the Sermon on the Mount.

I didn't leave the church because I thought they were a pack of hypocrites...though some clearly were.  Most were far more 'morally upright' than I could manage.  I 'left' because their so-called 'gospel' didn't sound like such good news any more, to a sinner.  Maybe we (I) should spend some times considering what our 'message' IS to sinners...and apply it to ourselves first.  They gave the likes of me no hope.  From their perspective under the law, they were right.  It wasn't that their message was "wrong". it was (simply and flatly put) worthless.

Maybe it isn't 'worthless' to everybody.  Lots of people have better lives because of their 'faith'.  But some of us didn't.             

No, I don't assume they aren't struggling.  That is not what I said.

You assume I assume there is no struggle.  Maybe my words struck a chord in you and you were offended.

Carry on.......
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Gina

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Re: Gay Weddings
« Reply #57 on: April 05, 2015, 07:48:25 PM »

"I shall not today attempt further to define the kinds of material I understand to be embraced within that shorthand description [hard-core pornography]; and perhaps I could never succeed in intelligibly doing so. But I know it when I see it:" Potter Stewart

That's right.
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zvezda

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Re: Gay Weddings
« Reply #58 on: April 05, 2015, 07:51:56 PM »

I was not refering to you when I made that statement. In fact, the person I had in mind I don't believe actually even said that so no need to worry. I hope the point I was making that followed that statement though is not lost on that account.
Thanks for clarifying, Alex  :)
As for the point you were making followed that statement
Quote
Ray said that marriage was one of the few things in this world that God made for us to observe PHYSICALLY and not spiritually. We don't spiritually marry other people and we don't get spiritual divorces. In the same way, your PHYSICAL PRESENCE says A LOT about what you think is OKAY in the eye's of God.
I agree with what Ray said that marriage is more physical than spiritual, from a scriptural point of view. But I don't agree with what you said "In the same way, your PHYSICAL PRESENCE says A LOT about what you think is OKAY in the eye's of God." It's not the same way in God's eyes, God doesn't look on the physical appearance, men do. Even when people attend a regular wedding, they go there for various reasons, it doesn't automatically say they are okay with this marriage. Maybe some of the wedding attendants think the groom won't make a good husband, or some think the bride marries him for his money, whatever. You just don't know what go through people's minds by their physical presence. Most importantly: For the Lord sees not as man sees: man looks on the outward appearance, but the Lord looks on the heart. (1 Samuel 16:7)
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Gina

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Re: Gay Weddings
« Reply #59 on: April 05, 2015, 08:08:35 PM »

I was not refering to you when I made that statement. In fact, the person I had in mind I don't believe actually even said that so no need to worry. I hope the point I was making that followed that statement though is not lost on that account.
Thanks for clarifying, Alex  :)
As for the point you were making followed that statement
Quote
Ray said that marriage was one of the few things in this world that God made for us to observe PHYSICALLY and not spiritually. We don't spiritually marry other people and we don't get spiritual divorces. In the same way, your PHYSICAL PRESENCE says A LOT about what you think is OKAY in the eye's of God.
I agree with what Ray said that marriage is more physical than spiritual, from a scriptural point of view. But I don't agree with what you said "In the same way, your PHYSICAL PRESENCE says A LOT about what you think is OKAY in the eye's of God." It's not the same way in God's eyes, God doesn't look on the physical appearance, men do. Even when people attend a regular wedding, they go there for various reasons, it doesn't automatically say they are okay with this marriage. Maybe some of the wedding attendants think the groom won't make a good husband, or some think the bride marries him for his money, whatever. You just don't know what go through people's minds by their physical presence. Most importantly: For the Lord sees not as man sees: man looks on the outward appearance, but the Lord looks on the heart. (1 Samuel 16:7)

That verse about God looking on the heart and not the outward appearance is so badly misunderstood and interpreted.

But what does this mean:


Abstain from all appearance of evil.  ( 1 Thess. 5:22 ) 

It's one thing to attend a wedding and assume in the back of your mind that the groom or the bride won't make a good wife.  That's really not the same thing as attending a gay wedding KNOWING that God condemns it and it WILL, and I don't mean maybe, end up badly.   And why would you do this?  Because you're too AFRAID you'll hurt your friends' feelings?  Yes.

I'm telling you, friendship with the world is emnity with God.  Nobody's saying to hate these people, but if you're going to a gay wedding and pretending you're not thinking what you're really thinking deep down in your heart, let me be the first to inform you:  you have way bigger problems than just sitting inside a wedding chapel attending a gay wedding.  And you can take that to the bank.
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