> General Discussions
Gay Weddings
Dennis Vogel:
"I shall not today attempt further to define the kinds of material I understand to be embraced within that shorthand description [hard-core pornography]; and perhaps I could never succeed in intelligibly doing so. But I know it when I see it:" Potter Stewart
Gina:
--- Quote from: Dave in Tenn on April 05, 2015, 03:51:47 PM ---You assume there is no struggle, Gina. That's wrong.
Some seem very sure of what Jesus would have hypothetically done. You may well be right. Me? I'm a little less sure. Or of what He would have done and said instead (or maybe when He got there). I do see what He DID do, however He said things that only His disciples understood, and even then only after He explained them...and even then often only after they gained some experience of His Spirit.
Since we're quoting scripture here (and at least sometimes with the assumption that they contradict), here's MAYBE a relevant passage (with two undeniable witnesses):
Luk 7:31 And the Lord said, Whereunto then shall I liken the men of this generation? and to what are they like?
Luk 7:32 They are like unto children sitting in the marketplace, and calling one to another, and saying, We have piped unto you, and ye have not danced; we have mourned to you, and ye have not wept.
Luk 7:33 For John the Baptist came neither eating bread nor drinking wine; and ye say, He hath a devil.
Luk 7:34 The Son of man is come eating and drinking; and ye say, Behold a gluttonous man, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners!
Luk 7:35 But wisdom is justified of all her children.
Mat 11:16 "But to what shall I compare the present generation? It is like children sitting in the open places, who call to their playmates.
Mat 11:17 "'We have played the flute to you,' they say, 'and you have not danced: we have sung dirges, and you have not beaten your breasts.'
Mat 11:18 "For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, 'He has a demon.'
Mat 11:19 The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they exclaim, 'See this man! --given to gluttony and tippling, and a friend of tax-gatherers and notorious sinners!' And yet Wisdom is vindicated by her actions."
I also can't forget what He did do...not hypothetically (or even symbolically) but REALLY. While we were yet sinners, He died for us. And unless the Calvinists are right, He died for all of us, not just those to whom He gives faith to believe.
More power to you if you can create a law which automatically and without any further thought forbids you to hypothetically go to a "gay wedding". I'm not going to pipe and expect you to dance. And lest you think I also don't know that "they" are expecting the same thing, I do know that. But in all likelihood (I can only state the obvious here) I'm not talking to them but to "us". That's where Judgement begins, or we miss the point of the Sermon on the Mount.
I didn't leave the church because I thought they were a pack of hypocrites...though some clearly were. Most were far more 'morally upright' than I could manage. I 'left' because their so-called 'gospel' didn't sound like such good news any more, to a sinner. Maybe we (I) should spend some times considering what our 'message' IS to sinners...and apply it to ourselves first. They gave the likes of me no hope. From their perspective under the law, they were right. It wasn't that their message was "wrong". it was (simply and flatly put) worthless.
Maybe it isn't 'worthless' to everybody. Lots of people have better lives because of their 'faith'. But some of us didn't.
--- End quote ---
No, I don't assume they aren't struggling. That is not what I said.
You assume I assume there is no struggle. Maybe my words struck a chord in you and you were offended.
Carry on.......
Gina:
--- Quote from: Dennis Vogel on April 05, 2015, 04:31:52 PM ---"I shall not today attempt further to define the kinds of material I understand to be embraced within that shorthand description [hard-core pornography]; and perhaps I could never succeed in intelligibly doing so. But I know it when I see it:" Potter Stewart
--- End quote ---
That's right.
zvezda:
--- Quote from: lilitalienboi16 on April 05, 2015, 02:48:01 PM ---I was not refering to you when I made that statement. In fact, the person I had in mind I don't believe actually even said that so no need to worry. I hope the point I was making that followed that statement though is not lost on that account.
--- End quote ---
Thanks for clarifying, Alex :)
As for the point you were making followed that statement
--- Quote ---Ray said that marriage was one of the few things in this world that God made for us to observe PHYSICALLY and not spiritually. We don't spiritually marry other people and we don't get spiritual divorces. In the same way, your PHYSICAL PRESENCE says A LOT about what you think is OKAY in the eye's of God.
--- End quote ---
I agree with what Ray said that marriage is more physical than spiritual, from a scriptural point of view. But I don't agree with what you said "In the same way, your PHYSICAL PRESENCE says A LOT about what you think is OKAY in the eye's of God." It's not the same way in God's eyes, God doesn't look on the physical appearance, men do. Even when people attend a regular wedding, they go there for various reasons, it doesn't automatically say they are okay with this marriage. Maybe some of the wedding attendants think the groom won't make a good husband, or some think the bride marries him for his money, whatever. You just don't know what go through people's minds by their physical presence. Most importantly: For the Lord sees not as man sees: man looks on the outward appearance, but the Lord looks on the heart. (1 Samuel 16:7)
Gina:
--- Quote from: zvezda on April 05, 2015, 04:51:56 PM ---
--- Quote from: lilitalienboi16 on April 05, 2015, 02:48:01 PM ---I was not refering to you when I made that statement. In fact, the person I had in mind I don't believe actually even said that so no need to worry. I hope the point I was making that followed that statement though is not lost on that account.
--- End quote ---
Thanks for clarifying, Alex :)
As for the point you were making followed that statement
--- Quote ---Ray said that marriage was one of the few things in this world that God made for us to observe PHYSICALLY and not spiritually. We don't spiritually marry other people and we don't get spiritual divorces. In the same way, your PHYSICAL PRESENCE says A LOT about what you think is OKAY in the eye's of God.
--- End quote ---
I agree with what Ray said that marriage is more physical than spiritual, from a scriptural point of view. But I don't agree with what you said "In the same way, your PHYSICAL PRESENCE says A LOT about what you think is OKAY in the eye's of God." It's not the same way in God's eyes, God doesn't look on the physical appearance, men do. Even when people attend a regular wedding, they go there for various reasons, it doesn't automatically say they are okay with this marriage. Maybe some of the wedding attendants think the groom won't make a good husband, or some think the bride marries him for his money, whatever. You just don't know what go through people's minds by their physical presence. Most importantly: For the Lord sees not as man sees: man looks on the outward appearance, but the Lord looks on the heart. (1 Samuel 16:7)
--- End quote ---
That verse about God looking on the heart and not the outward appearance is so badly misunderstood and interpreted.
But what does this mean:
Abstain from all appearance of evil. ( 1 Thess. 5:22 )
It's one thing to attend a wedding and assume in the back of your mind that the groom or the bride won't make a good wife. That's really not the same thing as attending a gay wedding KNOWING that God condemns it and it WILL, and I don't mean maybe, end up badly. And why would you do this? Because you're too AFRAID you'll hurt your friends' feelings? Yes.
I'm telling you, friendship with the world is emnity with God. Nobody's saying to hate these people, but if you're going to a gay wedding and pretending you're not thinking what you're really thinking deep down in your heart, let me be the first to inform you: you have way bigger problems than just sitting inside a wedding chapel attending a gay wedding. And you can take that to the bank.
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