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Author Topic: In God's Eyes  (Read 5004 times)

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lilitalienboi16

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In God's Eyes
« on: April 17, 2015, 08:51:16 PM »

So Dave made a comment in another thread that got me thinking and before I could respond to his statement, the thread was locked.

Here it is;

For instance:  I don't know about this concept of "being married in God's eyes".  Maybe it's in scripture...I'm not the world's greatest bible-scholar by a long shot...but it sounds to me like a 'made-up' phrase.

I will admit I am guilty of using the above phrase or even just the phrase "In God's eyes" when I think something is different from God's perspective than it is from man's.

So perhaps "being married in God's eyes" is a made up phrase but is the concept of something being different in the eye's of God than in man's a made up concept too?

I decided to search scripture and see if such an idea is scriptural.  I also thought of ray's relative verse absolute comment and I think that it is a perfect example of something being one way in the eye's of man and entirely another in the eyes of God:

------------------------------------------------------http://bible-truths.com/fulltext/fulltext.htm
RELATIVE VS. ABSOLUTE

If a theologian can't see the "absolute" versus the "relative" in Scripture, he is in no position to teach anyone.

A little boys asks: "Why did God say in Gen. 3:9: 'Where art thou [Adam]?' Mommy says that God knows everything." (I Jn 3:20). You say, "Of course God knew where Adam was. Adam sinned. Adam felt bad. He thought he could hide from God. God was condescending to man's level. It was for Adam's benefit that God asked, 'Where art thou Adam?'" You say, "That's not a problem. That's easy to understand and answer. It's stupid to think that God didn't know where Adam was."

And, of course, we have Scriptural proof that God knew where Adam was because "He [God] knows all" (I Jn 3:20)

Neither did our Lord ask questions out of ignorance: "Believe ye that I am able to do this?" (Matt. 9:28) "Who is my mother, and who are my brethren?" (Matt. 12:48) "How many loaves have ye?" (Matt. 15:34) "Whom do men say that I the Son of man am?" (Matt. 116:13)

Christ asked dozens of questions during His ministry. But He already knew all the answers: " ... because of His knowing ALL men ... " (Matt. 21:27).

Christ even answered questions by asking questions. The Pharisees asked why His disciples transgressed the "traditions." Our Lord knew how to "answer a fool according to his folly" (Prov. 26:5) by asking: "Wherefore are you also transgressing the precept of God because of your tradition?" (Mat. 15:3)

This brings up another apparent contradiction, however, because Prov. 26:4 says: "answer not a fool according to his folly ... " Our Lord knew how to do that as well: "Neither am I telling you by what authority I am doing these things." (Mat. 21:27). These two scriptures in Proverbs should teach us to never pit one verse of Scripture against another. Verse 4 and 5 do not contradict. They are both true.

So if it's stupid to think that God didn't really know where Adam was, a relative statement condescending to man's level, isn't it then, likewise, stupid to believe that God contradicts Himself in the following verses:

 

THE RELATIVE:

THE ABSOLUTE:

" ... seek, and ye shall find ... " (Mat. 7:7)

"Not one is seeking out God" (Rom. 3:11)

God changed His mind (Ex. 32:14)

God is not a man Who changes His mind
(I Sam. 15:29)

" ... choose you this day whom ye will serve."
(Josh. 24:15)

"Ye have not chosen me,
but I have chosen you ... " (Jn. 15:16)

" ... whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God ... " (I Jn. 3:10)

"All is of God" (II Cor. 5:18)

Zechariah was just before God (Lk. 1:5)
(Comparing him to the corrupt priests)

"Not one is just" (Rom. 3:10)
(Comparing man with God)

One is the "relative" the other is the "absolute." One is from man's point of view, comparing men with men, the other is from God's point of view. One shows how a thing is perceived while the other shows how it actually is. One is for minors while the other is for the mature.

Both Scriptures are true. The relative is true and the absolute is true. They do not contradict. However, one really is "relative" while the other is "absolute."

Theologians are always taking Scriptures that speak of the relative, from man's point of view, and insist that these verses are absolute. By doing this they commit a double sin. Because then they insist that these relative truths actually nullify God's absolute declarations. They won't admit to this in their own words, but this is what they do when they retain the "relative" at the expense of rejecting the "absolute."

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I also found these verses:

Isaiah 55:8 For My thoughts are not your thoughts, Nor are your ways My ways," declares the LORD. 9"For as the heavens are higher than the earth, So are My ways higher than your ways And My thoughts than your thoughts.…

2 Samuel 7:19 And this was yet a small thing in thy sight, O Lord God; but thou hast spoken also of thy servant's house for a great while to come. And is this the manner of man, O Lord God?

Chronicles 16:9 For the eyes of the Lord run to and fro throughout the whole earth, to shew himself strong in the behalf of them whose heart is perfect toward him. Herein thou hast done foolishly: therefore from henceforth thou shalt have wars.

Proverbs 15:3 The eyes of the Lord are in every place, beholding the evil and the good.

So I think in relation to the marriage concept, one might percieve a thing to be a certain way, i.e. being married to a new woman, while God percieves it differently, i.e you left your first wife without an acceptable cause (pornea) therefor I [God] am still holding you to your first contractual marriage and calling this second marriage of yours nothing but adultery.

Am I stretching this relative verse absolute concept too far in applying it to marriage? Does anyone have any thoughts to share on this? I'm completely open to discussion on the matter.

God bless,
Alex
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1 Cor 1:10 "Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment."

Dave in Tenn

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Re: In God's Eyes
« Reply #1 on: April 17, 2015, 09:33:28 PM »

Alex, even I shouldn't be allowed to 'teach'.  But I'll tell you what I mean by that, if I can be brief.


So I think in relation to the marriage concept, one might percieve a thing to be a certain way, i.e. being married to a new woman, while God percieves it differently, i.e you left your first wife without an acceptable cause (pornea) therefor I [God] am still holding you to your first contractual marriage and calling this second marriage of yours nothing but adultery.

Am I stretching this relative verse absolute concept too far in applying it to marriage? Does anyone have any thoughts to share on this? I'm completely open to discussion on the matter.

God bless,
Alex

I don't think your statement is wrong. 

God DOES 'see' things higher, and more clearly than we do.  Marriage is a fact of life.  Most people do it--from the 'saintliest' to the most 'base'.  It's an agreement or a contract, and it carries with it obligations.  We live up to them, or we don't.  And that's what God 'sees'.  He also 'sees' the motives of our hearts...something we struggle mightily to 'see' in others and often can't even 'see' in ourselves until it's revealed.

As I said, though, I'm not so sure about this 'statement'.  But when I hear things like this (especially when they are pronounced dogmatically) then I start to wonder.  It's not that every statement man can make must be 'in scripture' for it to be true, but there is a lot of religious jargon that doesn't pan out to be the whole truth (at best) when seriously sought-out.           
« Last Edit: April 17, 2015, 09:59:22 PM by Dave in Tenn »
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John from Kentucky

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Re: In God's Eyes
« Reply #2 on: April 17, 2015, 10:32:19 PM »

Alex,

Another point on this Marriage thing.  Jesus' example and several Scriptures teach us that we are to submit to all proper authority, laws, and rulers, in the period of time that we find ourselves.  This applies to all who have and are led by the Spirit of God.

We are to obey all traffic laws.  Which I have a hard time following.  I do not usually wear my seat belt except on out of town trips.  This makes me a sinner and hypocrite since the Spirit expressly teaches that I do not have the authority to disobey a traffic law.

The same with taxes.  Jesus said to render to Caesar that which is Caesar's.  A Spirit led follower of Jesus will pay their taxes without resentment.

The same with all the legal rules surrounding marriage.  We are to obey the marriage laws, rules, and customs of the society we are in.  We are to give to all their due.  Who are we to set up ourselves as an authority to not follow the rules, laws and authorities that we are under?

The exception is when a law or ruler or custom is clearly in opposition to God's ways.

That is why a member of the Church of the Living God would not have lived very long under Hitler and Nazi Germany.  We would have been killed.

Also, it is why we will not honor or accept any such concept as homosexual marriage.  It is against God's ways.

But if we can, we need to live in peace with those among whom we find ourselves.

Michael, when contending with Satan over the dead body of Moses, did not bring a railing accusation against him, but said, "May God rebuke you."

God will work everything out and restore all things to the way they should be.
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lilitalienboi16

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Re: In God's Eyes
« Reply #3 on: April 17, 2015, 10:50:49 PM »

Thank you very much to the both of you. I appreciate you taking the time to go a little more into depth on this.

God bless,
Alex
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1 Cor 1:10 "Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment."

Kat

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Re: In God's Eyes
« Reply #4 on: April 18, 2015, 10:44:15 AM »


Alex, here is a Scripture that I don't believe has been mentioned.

Mat 19:4  And He answered and said, Have ye not read, that He who made them from the beginning made them male and female,
v. 5  and said, For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife; and the two shall become one flesh?
v. 6  So that they are no more two, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.

Here Christ explains that God made humans as male and female, and v. 5 "on this account" (CLV), so He made us as such for the reason to be united/joined in marriage. But the key phrase is v. 6 "What therefore God hath joined together," so as Malachi had said God does "witness" the marriage ceremony. It seems their vow is spoken before human witness, but more importantly before God as a witness to it.

Mal 2:14  Yet you say, "For what reason?" Because the LORD has been witness Between you and the wife of your youth, With whom you have dealt treacherously; Yet she is your companion And your wife by covenant.

So I do believe in wedding ceremonies when God is called on to bless the marriage and the 'vows' are spoken God does hear, this becomes the marriage covenant. So "What therefore God hath joined together," in marriage is 'in God's eyes.'

mercy, peace and love
Kat
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lilitalienboi16

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Re: In God's Eyes
« Reply #5 on: April 18, 2015, 02:49:31 PM »


Alex, here is a Scripture that I don't believe has been mentioned.

Mat 19:4  And He answered and said, Have ye not read, that He who made them from the beginning made them male and female,
v. 5  and said, For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife; and the two shall become one flesh?
v. 6  So that they are no more two, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.

Here Christ explains that God made humans as male and female, and v. 5 "on this account" (CLV), so He made us as such for the reason to be united/joined in marriage. But the key phrase is v. 6 "What therefore God hath joined together," so as Malachi had said God does "witness" the marriage ceremony. It seems their vow is spoken before human witness, but more importantly before God as a witness to it.

Mal 2:14  Yet you say, "For what reason?" Because the LORD has been witness Between you and the wife of your youth, With whom you have dealt treacherously; Yet she is your companion And your wife by covenant.

So I do believe in wedding ceremonies when God is called on to bless the marriage and the 'vows' are spoken God does hear, this becomes the marriage covenant. So "What therefore God hath joined together," in marriage is 'in God's eyes.'

mercy, peace and love
Kat

Thank you Kat, very good addition!

God bless,
Alex
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1 Cor 1:10 "Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment."

Dave in Tenn

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Re: In God's Eyes
« Reply #6 on: April 18, 2015, 07:30:21 PM »

Maybe a (close) parallel to the phrase "married in the eyes of God" is "married according to God".  Why can't we just speak simply and say "married"?  There are and have been billions of people married who don't follow the Jewish or Christian or Western traditions.  Can I say they are not married "according to God" or "in the eyes of God"?  Aren't they just simply "married"?   

One of the strengths of Ray's article was the plain assertion that almost every culture on earth (no matter how primitive) has an "institution" of marriage.  Maybe this is part of what Paul meant in Romans 1.  People the world over know that men and women belong together.  The 'rules' concerning "marrying" and "being married" may vary, but the fact of man/woman and of an assumption of "vows" is constant.

I've read in the emails and sometimes on the forum people asking whether someone NOT married by a minister (or MARRIED by a minister) are 'real' marriages "in the eyes of God".  Why not just say the simple truth?  They are "marriages" and let the facts involved speak for themselves.
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lilitalienboi16

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Re: In God's Eyes
« Reply #7 on: April 18, 2015, 11:32:02 PM »

Maybe a (close) parallel to the phrase "married in the eyes of God" is "married according to God".  Why can't we just speak simply and say "married"?  There are and have been billions of people married who don't follow the Jewish or Christian or Western traditions.  Can I say they are not married "according to God" or "in the eyes of God"?  Aren't they just simply "married"?   

One of the strengths of Ray's article was the plain assertion that almost every culture on earth (no matter how primitive) has an "institution" of marriage.  Maybe this is part of what Paul meant in Romans 1.  People the world over know that men and women belong together.  The 'rules' concerning "marrying" and "being married" may vary, but the fact of man/woman and of an assumption of "vows" is constant.

I've read in the emails and sometimes on the forum people asking whether someone NOT married by a minister (or MARRIED by a minister) are 'real' marriages "in the eyes of God".  Why not just say the simple truth?  They are "marriages" and let the facts involved speak for themselves.

We're not all eloquent speakers, some more than others, but we do the best we can. I know for myself that words escape me all too often. Its frustrating. There are many area's of my understanding and speech that I would love to see improved. Even my obedience to God. I think one of the most important things is we strive to maintain the unity of the faith as the body of Christ. Edifying one another, uplifing others, rebuking some, etc...  I do believe, by the grace of God, we are doing that.

I'm pretty sure we'll get there Dave. In God's time. It's a long race but I am happy to have you all as my family to run it with. 

God bless,
Alex

« Last Edit: April 18, 2015, 11:34:08 PM by lilitalienboi16 »
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1 Cor 1:10 "Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment."

indianabob

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Re: In God's Eyes
« Reply #8 on: April 19, 2015, 02:00:45 AM »

Good advice brother Alex,

It is also important for me to realize that the race is not about being in a hurry to get to the finish line or to be first in line. It is all about finishing....
Run patiently putting one foot in front of the other, stumbling on occasion and the rising again to continue until the end, seeking God's aid for the strength to finish.
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lurquer

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Re: In God's Eyes
« Reply #9 on: April 19, 2015, 03:11:51 PM »

Dave in Tenn wrote:
Quote
I'm going to leave the thread open for an unspecified period of time, but I will lock it soon enough...and I will not allow this 'discussion' to be brought up again.  I hope that is understood.

Dave, it seems this "discussion" just keeps popping up like spring mushrooms...even among some here who claim to be "bored to tears" by it.  :'(

Just wondering--was this admonishment for me only or for everyone?
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Dave in Tenn

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Re: In God's Eyes
« Reply #10 on: April 19, 2015, 04:03:49 PM »

Neo...so far we aren't rehashing the definition of "marriage".  The one who claimed to be 'bored' by it either hasn't posted or removed his post.  And the 'admonition' is for everybody who can't make themselves follow the rules.

Alex had a question about something I said.  It's as important as it is, and not a bit more-so than that.  Seems like it was answered to his satisfaction.  There's probably no more need for more comment on it.  But it hsan't gone into three or five pages, so I'm not pressed to lock it quite yet.
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Heb 10:32  But you must continue to remember those earlier days, how after you were enlightened you endured a hard and painful struggle.
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