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[lauriellen]

Can someone point me to any place Ray may have discussed these scriptures and what is meant by things/creatures/man UNDER the earth? I am not understanding how this could be talking about dead humans bowing/speaking? The Strongs definition isn't making it much clearer for me either (kat-akh-thon'-ee-os From G2596 and χθών chthōn (the ground); subterranean, that is, infernal (belonging to the world of departed spirits): - under the earth.)


Php_2:10  That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things UNDER the earth;

Rev_5:3  And no man in heaven, nor in earth, neither UNDER the earth, was able to open the book, neither to look thereon.
 
Rev_5:13  And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and UNDER the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.

Thank you =)

[lilitalienboi16]

Can someone point me to any place Ray may have discussed these scriptures and what is meant by things/creatures/man UNDER the earth? I am not understanding how this could be talking about dead humans bowing/speaking? The Strongs definition isn't making it much clearer for me either (kat-akh-thon'-ee-os From G2596 and χθών chthōn (the ground); subterranean, that is, infernal (belonging to the world of departed spirits): - under the earth.)


Php_2:10  That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things UNDER the earth;

Rev_5:3  And no man in heaven, nor in earth, neither UNDER the earth, was able to open the book, neither to look thereon.
 
Rev_5:13  And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and UNDER the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.

Thank you =)

Hi lauriellen,

I know you want what ray may have said on this subject but I currently cannot think of any place where he spoke this specifically.

My personal opinion, and I have not studied this extensively by any means, is that this is the same group of beings that are trapped in darkness and chains.

2Pe_2:4  For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;


Rev_20:1  And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.


Jud_1:6  And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

Rev_9:1  And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit.
Rev_9:2  And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit.

Rev_9:11  And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon.

Rev_11:7  And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.

Rev_17:8  The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.


I found these verses also that talk about "under the earth" atleast as it is in the KJV and thought they may be of help.

Exo_20:4  Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:

Psa_135:6  Whatsoever the LORD pleased, that did he in heaven, and in earth, in the seas, and all deep places.

Psa_95:4  In his hand are the deep places of the earth: the strength of the hills is his also.

Anyway, I know its not much but I think its related to these angels in chain and those in the pit of darkness. The destroyer that comes out of hte pit, im thinking that has to be the waster that God created to destroy (From Isaiah) which is satan (deliver such a one unto satan for the destruction of the flesh). His coming out of the pit blocks the sun (God's light) from shinning in the lives of men?

Welp just some random thoughts, God willing someone else has more to add or perhaps knows where ray talked about things under the earth. It could be spiritual too... seeing as the church is earth and satan has his throne IN the earth?

God bless,
Alex

[Mike Gagne]

Hi Lauriellen.  every creature in Heaven ( the elect ), and on the earth ( the called ) and under the earth ( the uncalled ). LRay talks about this somewhere in the lake of fire series. He puts it in order. I think its in # 13 who is the beast. Anyhow have to run, read that and you should find what your looking for. Have a blessed day!

[Kat]

Hi lauriellen,

Though Ray referenced the Scripture that mentions those "under the earth" many times, he did not discuss specifically what was meant by the "under"... but in one single email I did find a clear mention of what this is speaking of.

http://bible-truths.com/email10.htm ---------------------

God intends for ALL OF HIS CHILDREN to live ETERNALLY WITH HIM IN GLORY. When and how is this accomplished according to the Scriptures?

 It is true that ALL WILL BE SAVED (I Tim. 2:4 and 4:10 and a hundred other verses like this). However, NOT ALL are saved at the same time. Only those in the FIRST RESURRECTION will inherit the Kingdom of God on earth to reign with Christ. ONLY the "very ELECT."  ONLY those who "OVERCOME." ONLY the "manifested SONS OF GOD." 

Eternity in heaven is NOT the "REWARD" of the saved. EVERYONE will eventually be in the realm of heaven with God for eternity. But ONLY those who are accounted worthy to be in the first resurrection will receive a SPECIAL MARVELOUS GLORIOUS REWARD. And what is that glorious reward: "EONIAN [AGE-ABIDING] LIFE, in the KINGDOM OF GOD, ruling and reigning with Christ's for "aions of the aions" until ALL in the heavens and ALL in the earth, and ALL under the earth [the deceased] are ALSO BROUGHT IN GOD'S FAMILY!  It is a special reward to occurs AGES before the rest of humanity receive salvation. This reward is all through the New Testament, but few indeed, seem to see it.

 What then happens to the "life" of all those who were given "aionion life." Do they DIE?  Does their life come to AN END?  Just what comes to an end, in THE END? Why, the "AIONS" [THE AGES], of course, come to an end. Do the Saints of the first resurrection then DIE WITH THE AGES? NO!! How so? If the "aions" END, and "aionion life" ENDS, why does not the life of the resurrected Saints ALSO END?  Because God gave them IMMORTALITY AND INCORRUPTION FROM THE BEGINNING OF THEIR RESURRECTION, AND THEY STILL HAVE AND POSSES IT! 

 "Aionion" life, age-abiding life, the special reward part of the Saints life, ENDS--BUT IMMORTALITY AND INCORRUPTION DOES NOT END. Immortal life can NEVER END BECAUSE IMMORTALITY MEANS: DEATH=LESS=NESS--never to DIE! But in the SECOND resurrection ALL HUMANITY IS GIVEN IMMORTALITY. And it is the very judgment of the white throne and the spiritual, divine, cleaning of God's
 SPIRITUAL lake of fire than purifies all the wicked and unbelievers, until they ALL bow to the name of Jesus and call Him Lord and Saviour to the Glory of the Father   (Phil.2:10-11).
------------------------------------------------------------------

So now we can understand this is speaking of the dead, those buried under the ground/earth. And that make sense in that for "all" to be brought into the kingdom and for "every knee" to be able to bow before Christ Jesus, those that have died and are in/under the grave/earth would have to be resurrected back to life to do so.

Php 2:10  That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things UNDER the earth;

mercy, peace and love
Kat

[lilitalienboi16]

I would have thought the dead fell into the catagory of those on/ in the earth but not under it. However, it does make sense to consider these the deceased so completely possible and reasonaable in my opinion. Thanks for finding that kat!

Peter also says the angels were cast down into the grave so I guess I wasn't TOO far off!

2Pe_2:4  For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell[HADES - THE GRAVE], and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;

God bless,
Alex

[John from Kentucky]

I would have thought the dead fell into the catagory of those on/ in the earth but not under it. However, it does make sense to consider these the deceased so completely possible and reasonaable in my opinion. Thanks for finding that kat!

Peter also says the angels were cast down into the grave so I guess I wasn't TOO far off!

2Pe_2:4  For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell[HADES - THE GRAVE], and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;

God bless,
Alex

Alex,

To be accurate, the Greek word translated "hell" is not Hades but Tartaroo (a place of confinement).  That is the only time the word is so translated in the KJV.

[lilitalienboi16]

I would have thought the dead fell into the catagory of those on/ in the earth but not under it. However, it does make sense to consider these the deceased so completely possible and reasonaable in my opinion. Thanks for finding that kat!

Peter also says the angels were cast down into the grave so I guess I wasn't TOO far off!

2Pe_2:4  For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell[HADES - THE GRAVE], and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;

God bless,
Alex

Alex,

To be accurate, the Greek word translated "hell" is not Hades but Tartaroo (a place of confinement).  That is the only time the word is so translated in the KJV.

Haha well there goes my theory

Thanks for the clarification John!

[lauriellen]

thanks for the replies. I'm not sure I understand it any better tho...    I'll keep digging.

[Mike Gagne]

Hi Lauriellen, heres something from the lake of fire series...

SEA, EARTH, AND HEAVEN

There are three realms spoken of in Revelation: sea, earth, and heaven:

"And the angel which I saw stand upon the SEA and upon the EARTH lifted up his hand to HEAVEN, and swore by Him that lives for ever and ever, [for the eons of the eons], who created HEAVEN, and the things that therein are, and the EARTH, and the things that therein are, and the SEA, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer [no longer a time of delay]" (Rev. 10:5-6).

The angels [messengers] of God communicate things from heaven to both the earth and the sea:

"And the voice which I heard from heaven spoke unto me again, and said, Go and take the little book which is open in the hand of the ANGEL which stands upon the sea and upon the earth" (Rev. 10:.

There are three realms of humanity and three realms of spiritual understanding. The lowest of all is the sea. Those with at least some spiritual understanding are those who dwell in the earth. And those who have the very mind of Christ are those who dwell in heaven. ALL REALMS will give honor and glory to God:

"And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, [need I explain that ‘fish’ do not have the mental capacity to comprehend what is being taught here—these are MEN, MANKIND, HUMANITY] and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honor, and glory, and power, be unto Him that sits upon the throne, and upon the Lamb for the eons of the eons" (Rev. 5:13).

Is this not saying the identical thing that Paul teaches in Phil. 2:10-11:

"That at the name of Jesus every knee should BOW, of things [them] in heaven, and things [them] in earth, and things [them] under the earth; And that every tongue should confess that Jesus is Lord, to the glory of God the Father."

More proof:

"Therefore rejoice, ye heavens and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabitants of the earth and [inhabitants] of the sea! …" (Rev. 12:12).

Next notice that:

"And when the dragon saw that he was cast into the earth , he persecuted the WOMAN [the Church] which brought forth the man child [the manifest sons of God]" (Rev. 12:13).

Where is the Church? Does she dwell in the spiritual realms of heaven? No. Is she located in the sea? No. She dwells in the earth. She is higher than the sea, but lower than heaven; she dwells in the earth. These are the three realms spoken of in Revelation. If we can’t get our thinking above the symbols themselves, we will never ever understand the book of Revelation.

The saints have left the earth in their spiritual walk with God. Those who are now ‘spiritually-minded;’ dwell in heaven—a much much higher realm than that of the earth. And yet… and YET, of the wild beast that comes out of the sea in Revelation 13, we are told:

"And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme His name, and His tabernacle and them that [spiritually] dwell in heaven. And it was given unto Him [the wild beast] to make war with the saints, and TO OVERCOME THEM: and power was given him over ALL KINDREDS, AND TONGUES, AND NATIONS" (Verses 6-7).

Now maybe you don’t catch the significance of these verses. Here is a wild beast that not only has power, "…over ALL KINDREDS, and TONGUES, and NATIONS," but also can, "…make war with the SAINTS, and to OVERCOME THEM…" Is it possible for Satan to OVERCOME THE SAINTS? How can this be? Where? Show me?

"Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because GREATER is He [Jesus] that is in you, than he [Satan] that is in the world" (I John 4:4).

Does this verse sound like there is some wild beast OUT THERE somewhere, who can make a mockery of this verse, because this wild beast really can "…make war with the saints, and to OVERCOME them?" What ever happened to:

"Submit yourselves therefore to God. RESIST the devil, and he WILL FLEE FROM YOU" (James 4:7)?

Is there, OUT THERE SOMEWHERE, a power for evil that is even GREATER than Satan the Devil, himself? Why haven’t we been warned about him before we come to Rev. 13:7?

Did Jesus ever warn us of this wild beast? Did the apostles? Did Paul to the nations, warn of this evil power? How could the saints themselves, be deceived by this wild beast? I thought that the very elect of God CANNOT be deceived:

"For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders; insomuch that, IF IT WERE POSSIBLE, they shall deceive the very elect" (Matt. 24:24).

Ah, but it is NOT POSSIBLE to deceive the very elect! Will someone tell me what’s going on here with this wild beast?

Hope this helps, Have a nice day lauriellen

[Mike Gagne]

heres something to think about...

Pro 16:30  Whoever winks his eyes plans dishonest things; he who purses his lips brings evil to pass

Pro 10:10  Whoever winks the eye causes trouble, and a babbling fool will come to ruin

Psalms 35:19   (ESV)

19  Let not those rejoice over me who are wrongfully my foes, and let not those wink the eye who hate me without cause.

[Mike Gagne]

 Hi lauriellen,

There are three realms of humanity and three realms of spiritual understanding. The lowest of all is the sea. Those with at least some spiritual understanding are those who dwell in the earth. And those who have the very mind of Christ are those who dwell in heaven. ALL REALMS will give honor and glory to God:

"And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, [need I explain that ‘fish’ do not have the mental capacity to comprehend what is being taught here—these are MEN, MANKIND, HUMANITY] and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honor, and glory, and power, be unto Him that sits upon the throne, and upon the Lamb for the eons of the eons" (Rev. 5:13).

As I see what LRay is saying is that there is those who know Christ/Chosen and those with some spiritual understanding/called and those with no spiritual understanding/uncalled... Heaven/Elect   on the earth/called   under the earth/uncalled, the sea of humanity...

[Mike Gagne]

Kat I dont understand your answer!

Hi lauriellen,

Though Ray referenced the Scripture that mentions those "under the earth" many times, he did not discuss specifically what was meant by the "under"... but in one single email I did find a clear mention of what this is speaking of.

http://bible-truths.com/email10.htm ---------------------

God intends for ALL OF HIS CHILDREN to live ETERNALLY WITH HIM IN GLORY. When and how is this accomplished according to the Scriptures?

 It is true that ALL WILL BE SAVED (I Tim. 2:4 and 4:10 and a hundred other verses like this). However, NOT ALL are saved at the same time. Only those in the FIRST RESURRECTION will inherit the Kingdom of God on earth to reign with Christ. ONLY the "very ELECT."  ONLY those who "OVERCOME." ONLY the "manifested SONS OF GOD." 

Eternity in heaven is NOT the "REWARD" of the saved. EVERYONE will eventually be in the realm of heaven with God for eternity. But ONLY those who are accounted worthy to be in the first resurrection will receive a SPECIAL MARVELOUS GLORIOUS REWARD. And what is that glorious reward: "EONIAN [AGE-ABIDING] LIFE, in the KINGDOM OF GOD, ruling and reigning with Christ's for "aions of the aions" until ALL in the heavens and ALL in the earth, and ALL under the earth [the deceased] are ALSO BROUGHT IN GOD'S FAMILY!  It is a special reward to occurs AGES before the rest of humanity receive salvation. This reward is all through the New Testament, but few indeed, seem to see it.

 What then happens to the "life" of all those who were given "aionion life." Do they DIE?  Does their life come to AN END?  Just what comes to an end, in THE END? Why, the "AIONS" [THE AGES], of course, come to an end. Do the Saints of the first resurrection then DIE WITH THE AGES? NO!! How so? If the "aions" END, and "aionion life" ENDS, why does not the life of the resurrected Saints ALSO END?  Because God gave them IMMORTALITY AND INCORRUPTION FROM THE BEGINNING OF THEIR RESURRECTION, AND THEY STILL HAVE AND POSSES IT! 

 "Aionion" life, age-abiding life, the special reward part of the Saints life, ENDS--BUT IMMORTALITY AND INCORRUPTION DOES NOT END. Immortal life can NEVER END BECAUSE IMMORTALITY MEANS: DEATH=LESS=NESS--never to DIE! But in the SECOND resurrection ALL HUMANITY IS GIVEN IMMORTALITY. And it is the very judgment of the white throne and the spiritual, divine, cleaning of God's
 SPIRITUAL lake of fire than purifies all the wicked and unbelievers, until they ALL bow to the name of Jesus and call Him Lord and Saviour to the Glory of the Father   (Phil.2:10-11).
------------------------------------------------------------------

So now we can understand this is speaking of the dead, those buried under the ground/earth. And that make sense in that for "all" to be brought into the kingdom and for "every knee" to be able to bow before Christ Jesus, those that have died and are in/under the grave/earth would have to be resurrected back to life to do so.

Php 2:10  That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things UNDER the earth;

mercy, peace and love
Kat

Won't they all be in the same place where they left off when they died? Either in the first resurrection, the elect they will be heavenly, and at the great white throne judgement where every knee will bow and every tongue confess Jesus is LORD, and they all will be called at that time?

alex,  things are not in the manuscripts, these are not angels or demons that are being talk about...
Heres a good place for truth # 10 from LRays  twelve given truths to understanding Gods word.
Qoute:
TRUTH NUMBER 10

[A] "ALL is of God…" (II Cor. 5:18). The word "things" is not in the manuscripts.

"For of Him, and through Him, and to Him, are all things…" [Greek: ‘For out of Him, and through Him, and for Him, is ALL’—there is no word ‘things’]" (Rom. 11:36).

[C] "For it became Him, for Whom are ALL things, and by Whom are ALL things… [Greek: ‘For it became Him, because of Whom ALL is and through Whom ALL is…’—no ‘things’]" (Heb. 2:10).

[D] "For by Him were ALL things created… ALL things were created by Him and for Him: and He is before ALL things AND BY Him, ALL things consist [Gk: ‘hold together’]" (Col. 1:16).

[E] "For in Him we live, and move, and have our being [Gk: ‘exist’—that’s our ALL]" (Acts 17:28).

[F] "…the purpose of Him Who works ALL things after the counsel of His Own will" (Eph. 1:11).

Few Christians indeed believe this Truth. First they will insist that I took that phrase out of context. Let us see if that is true
end of quote.

[lilitalienboi16]

Hi lauriellen,

There are three realms of humanity and three realms of spiritual understanding. The lowest of all is the sea. Those with at least some spiritual understanding are those who dwell in the earth. And those who have the very mind of Christ are those who dwell in heaven. ALL REALMS will give honor and glory to God:

"And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, [need I explain that ‘fish’ do not have the mental capacity to comprehend what is being taught here—these are MEN, MANKIND, HUMANITY] and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honor, and glory, and power, be unto Him that sits upon the throne, and upon the Lamb for the eons of the eons" (Rev. 5:13).

As I see what LRay is saying is that there is those who know Christ/Chosen and those with some spiritual understanding/called and those with no spiritual understanding/uncalled... Heaven/Elect   on the earth/called   under the earth/uncalled, the sea of humanity...

Hi Michael,

I believe what ray was saying is similar to what you said with one exception.

The "under the earth" was not what ray called the "uncalled" but rather the uncalled he associates with "the sea." The carnal sea of humanity is where the uncalled spiritually reside. That is why John says there will be no more sea. There will be no more God hating carnal minded humanity when God judges the inhabitants of the world.

Even in your previous quote from ray, ray makes that clear:

"There are three realms of humanity and three realms of spiritual understanding. [1]The lowest of all is the sea. Those with at least some spiritual understanding are those who dwell in the earth [2]. And those who have the very mind of Christ are those who dwell in heaven [3]. ALL REALMS will give honor and glory to God:"

Luariellen I believe was specifically asking about what it means to be "under the earth." Now that kat shared what ray wrote, I think it makes sense. Its exactly what you would think it to be.

This idea may be similar to what King David said in Psalm 22

"All they that be fat upon earth shall eat and worship: all they that go down to the dust shall bow before him: and none can keep alive his own soul."

"All they that go down to the dust..." isn't that sounding very similar to what paul said in philipians about those "under the earth" who will bow the knee and confess? Seems like its right out of david's psalms when you consider the fact that david too was speaking about those who will worship (Bow the knee and confess with the tongue) God too! That was paul's subject in writing Phil 2:10. We can't ignore that.

Consider Isaiah 26 too where he says:

"Thy dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead."

This too might be similar about dwelling "IN" the dust and being "under the earth."

Daniel also talks about this in chapter 12 where he says: "And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt."

I tried a different approach in my original post but as John pointed out, Tartarus isn't technically the grave and I personally don't know where tartarus is located (what realm) so I guess I can't say the "under the earth" applies to those angels locked there.

God bless,
Alex

[Mike Gagne]

Hi Alex, Thats what i said in my post, Here it is...

As I see what LRay is saying is that there is those who know Christ/Chosen and those with some spiritual understanding/called and those with no spiritual understanding/uncalled... Heaven/Elect   on the earth/called   under the earth/uncalled, the sea of humanity..
Now could we agree that the sea of humanity is uncalled?

Heres LRays Quote:    And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, [need I explain that ‘fish’ do not have the mental capacity to comprehend what is being taught here—these are MEN, MANKIND, HUMANITY] and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honor, and glory, and power, be unto Him that sits upon the throne, and upon the Lamb for the eons of the eons" (Rev. 5:13). end of Qoute.

 Notice the scriptures says under the earth... and all that are in them, heard I saying... They are all alive saying that!!,  that is a salvation of all scripture! Now this clearly speaks to Lauriellen question, please feel free to read her question again.
 Better yet here it is ....Can someone point me to any place Ray may have discussed these scriptures and what is meant by things/creatures/man UNDER the earth? I am not understanding how this could be talking about dead humans bowing/speaking?

I think I answered her Question, They are not dead they are alive! Good night Alex, God Bless you!

[Mike Gagne]

Hi Lauriellen, these scripture all require some actions from those mentioned... heres those scriptures you quoted:

Php_2:10  That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things UNDER the earth;

Rev_5:3  And no man in heaven, nor in earth, neither UNDER the earth, was able to open the book, neither to look thereon.
 
Rev_5:13  And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and UNDER the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.

 I would say they would all have to be alive to perform these actions! Have a nice day everyone.

[Kat]

Hi Lauriellen, these scripture all require some actions from those mentioned... heres those scriptures you quoted:

Php_2:10  That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things UNDER the earth;

Rev_5:3  And no man in heaven, nor in earth, neither UNDER the earth, was able to open the book, neither to look thereon.
 
Rev_5:13  And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and UNDER the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.

 I would say they would all have to be alive to perform these actions! Have a nice day everyone.

Michael, at the time that all of those Scripture were spoken, those that are "under the earth" were not alive, not at the time Paul spoke those words. Yes they all will be resurrected back to life and will bow/worship Christ eventually, but that is in the future from when this is spoken. So at that time and they still are "under the earth," buried in the grave.

Also in Revelation 5 it even includes those "in the sea," as Ray said that is not speaking of sea creatures, but people that have died at sea or been buried at sea (some cultures have done that), they are not under the earth, but had a watery grave.

Rev 20:13  The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works.

As I see what LRay is saying is that there is those who know Christ/Chosen and those with some spiritual understanding/called and those with no spiritual understanding/uncalled... Heaven/Elect   on the earth/called   under the earth/uncalled, the sea of humanity..
Now could we agree that the sea of humanity is uncalled?

Here is what Ray said.

"There are three realms of humanity and three realms of spiritual understanding. The lowest of all is the sea. Those with at least some spiritual understanding are those who dwell in the earth. And those who have the very mind of Christ are those who dwell in heaven. ALL REALMS will give honor and glory to God:"

Those that have no spiritual understanding are "the lowest"... "is the sea," not under the earth. When you say those under the earth are the 'uncalled,' you are including the chosen that have died and are still waiting resurrection and still in the grave or under the earth.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

[Joel]

There are dead people physically, and spiritually in the sea, live people make money from the various waters of the earth, in fishing, and trade.  see Revelations 18:17-19.

Jesus told Simon, and Andrew, actual fisherman in ships that if they followed him they would become fishers of men. Mark 1:17 (sea of humanity)

Men are made from the dust of the earth, alive on the earth, some are dead and buried in the earth.

Isaiah 40:22 speaks of "The circle of the Earth", so from a scriptural point of view the earth was always round, long before mankind knew this for sure.
We have what is referred to today as "The land down under" the parts of the circle of the earth in the southern hemisphere that includes Australia, and New Zealand.

There are those that are either alive, or dead spiritually, of the earth, in the earth, and under the earth.

God is good at covering all the bases.

Joel

[John from Kentucky]

I'm over the hill trying not to be buried under it.   

[lauriellen]

Thanks again, I think I have a much better understanding because of all of your comments. When you think of the heavens, earth, sea and under the earth as 'realms' or 'classes' of people instead of a physical place it makes much more sense. thanks again. =)

[Mike Gagne]

Hi John...

I'm over the hill trying not to be buried under it.