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under the earth?
Mike Gagne:
Hi lauriellen,
There are three realms of humanity and three realms of spiritual understanding. The lowest of all is the sea. Those with at least some spiritual understanding are those who dwell in the earth. And those who have the very mind of Christ are those who dwell in heaven. ALL REALMS will give honor and glory to God:
"And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, [need I explain that ‘fish’ do not have the mental capacity to comprehend what is being taught here—these are MEN, MANKIND, HUMANITY] and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honor, and glory, and power, be unto Him that sits upon the throne, and upon the Lamb for the eons of the eons" (Rev. 5:13).
As I see what LRay is saying is that there is those who know Christ/Chosen and those with some spiritual understanding/called and those with no spiritual understanding/uncalled... Heaven/Elect on the earth/called under the earth/uncalled, the sea of humanity...
Mike Gagne:
Kat I dont understand your answer!
--- Quote from: Kat on April 27, 2015, 08:42:00 AM ---
Hi lauriellen,
Though Ray referenced the Scripture that mentions those "under the earth" many times, he did not discuss specifically what was meant by the "under"... but in one single email I did find a clear mention of what this is speaking of.
http://bible-truths.com/email10.htm ---------------------
God intends for ALL OF HIS CHILDREN to live ETERNALLY WITH HIM IN GLORY. When and how is this accomplished according to the Scriptures?
It is true that ALL WILL BE SAVED (I Tim. 2:4 and 4:10 and a hundred other verses like this). However, NOT ALL are saved at the same time. Only those in the FIRST RESURRECTION will inherit the Kingdom of God on earth to reign with Christ. ONLY the "very ELECT." ONLY those who "OVERCOME." ONLY the "manifested SONS OF GOD."
Eternity in heaven is NOT the "REWARD" of the saved. EVERYONE will eventually be in the realm of heaven with God for eternity. But ONLY those who are accounted worthy to be in the first resurrection will receive a SPECIAL MARVELOUS GLORIOUS REWARD. And what is that glorious reward: "EONIAN [AGE-ABIDING] LIFE, in the KINGDOM OF GOD, ruling and reigning with Christ's for "aions of the aions" until ALL in the heavens and ALL in the earth, and ALL under the earth [the deceased] are ALSO BROUGHT IN GOD'S FAMILY! It is a special reward to occurs AGES before the rest of humanity receive salvation. This reward is all through the New Testament, but few indeed, seem to see it.
What then happens to the "life" of all those who were given "aionion life." Do they DIE? Does their life come to AN END? Just what comes to an end, in THE END? Why, the "AIONS" [THE AGES], of course, come to an end. Do the Saints of the first resurrection then DIE WITH THE AGES? NO!! How so? If the "aions" END, and "aionion life" ENDS, why does not the life of the resurrected Saints ALSO END? Because God gave them IMMORTALITY AND INCORRUPTION FROM THE BEGINNING OF THEIR RESURRECTION, AND THEY STILL HAVE AND POSSES IT!
"Aionion" life, age-abiding life, the special reward part of the Saints life, ENDS--BUT IMMORTALITY AND INCORRUPTION DOES NOT END. Immortal life can NEVER END BECAUSE IMMORTALITY MEANS: DEATH=LESS=NESS--never to DIE! But in the SECOND resurrection ALL HUMANITY IS GIVEN IMMORTALITY. And it is the very judgment of the white throne and the spiritual, divine, cleaning of God's
SPIRITUAL lake of fire than purifies all the wicked and unbelievers, until they ALL bow to the name of Jesus and call Him Lord and Saviour to the Glory of the Father (Phil.2:10-11).
------------------------------------------------------------------
So now we can understand this is speaking of the dead, those buried under the ground/earth. And that make sense in that for "all" to be brought into the kingdom and for "every knee" to be able to bow before Christ Jesus, those that have died and are in/under the grave/earth would have to be resurrected back to life to do so.
Php 2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things UNDER the earth;
mercy, peace and love
Kat
--- End quote ---
Won't they all be in the same place where they left off when they died? Either in the first resurrection, the elect they will be heavenly, and at the great white throne judgement where every knee will bow and every tongue confess Jesus is LORD, and they all will be called at that time?
alex, things are not in the manuscripts, these are not angels or demons that are being talk about...
Heres a good place for truth # 10 from LRays twelve given truths to understanding Gods word.
Qoute:
TRUTH NUMBER 10
[A] "ALL is of God…" (II Cor. 5:18). The word "things" is not in the manuscripts.
"For of Him, and through Him, and to Him, are all things…" [Greek: ‘For out of Him, and through Him, and for Him, is ALL’—there is no word ‘things’]" (Rom. 11:36).
[C] "For it became Him, for Whom are ALL things, and by Whom are ALL things… [Greek: ‘For it became Him, because of Whom ALL is and through Whom ALL is…’—no ‘things’]" (Heb. 2:10).
[D] "For by Him were ALL things created… ALL things were created by Him and for Him: and He is before ALL things AND BY Him, ALL things consist [Gk: ‘hold together’]" (Col. 1:16).
[E] "For in Him we live, and move, and have our being [Gk: ‘exist’—that’s our ALL]" (Acts 17:28).
[F] "…the purpose of Him Who works ALL things after the counsel of His Own will" (Eph. 1:11).
Few Christians indeed believe this Truth. First they will insist that I took that phrase out of context. Let us see if that is true
end of quote.
lilitalienboi16:
--- Quote from: Michael G on April 27, 2015, 09:25:32 PM --- Hi lauriellen,
There are three realms of humanity and three realms of spiritual understanding. The lowest of all is the sea. Those with at least some spiritual understanding are those who dwell in the earth. And those who have the very mind of Christ are those who dwell in heaven. ALL REALMS will give honor and glory to God:
"And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, [need I explain that ‘fish’ do not have the mental capacity to comprehend what is being taught here—these are MEN, MANKIND, HUMANITY] and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honor, and glory, and power, be unto Him that sits upon the throne, and upon the Lamb for the eons of the eons" (Rev. 5:13).
As I see what LRay is saying is that there is those who know Christ/Chosen and those with some spiritual understanding/called and those with no spiritual understanding/uncalled... Heaven/Elect on the earth/called under the earth/uncalled, the sea of humanity...
--- End quote ---
Hi Michael,
I believe what ray was saying is similar to what you said with one exception.
The "under the earth" was not what ray called the "uncalled" but rather the uncalled he associates with "the sea." The carnal sea of humanity is where the uncalled spiritually reside. That is why John says there will be no more sea. There will be no more God hating carnal minded humanity when God judges the inhabitants of the world.
Even in your previous quote from ray, ray makes that clear:
"There are three realms of humanity and three realms of spiritual understanding. [1]The lowest of all is the sea. Those with at least some spiritual understanding are those who dwell in the earth [2]. And those who have the very mind of Christ are those who dwell in heaven [3]. ALL REALMS will give honor and glory to God:"
Luariellen I believe was specifically asking about what it means to be "under the earth." Now that kat shared what ray wrote, I think it makes sense. Its exactly what you would think it to be.
This idea may be similar to what King David said in Psalm 22
"All they that be fat upon earth shall eat and worship: all they that go down to the dust shall bow before him: and none can keep alive his own soul."
"All they that go down to the dust..." isn't that sounding very similar to what paul said in philipians about those "under the earth" who will bow the knee and confess? Seems like its right out of david's psalms when you consider the fact that david too was speaking about those who will worship (Bow the knee and confess with the tongue) God too! That was paul's subject in writing Phil 2:10. We can't ignore that.
Consider Isaiah 26 too where he says:
"Thy dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead."
This too might be similar about dwelling "IN" the dust and being "under the earth."
Daniel also talks about this in chapter 12 where he says: "And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt."
I tried a different approach in my original post but as John pointed out, Tartarus isn't technically the grave and I personally don't know where tartarus is located (what realm) so I guess I can't say the "under the earth" applies to those angels locked there.
God bless,
Alex
Mike Gagne:
Hi Alex, Thats what i said in my post, Here it is...
As I see what LRay is saying is that there is those who know Christ/Chosen and those with some spiritual understanding/called and those with no spiritual understanding/uncalled... Heaven/Elect on the earth/called under the earth/uncalled, the sea of humanity..
Now could we agree that the sea of humanity is uncalled?
Heres LRays Quote: And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, [need I explain that ‘fish’ do not have the mental capacity to comprehend what is being taught here—these are MEN, MANKIND, HUMANITY] and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honor, and glory, and power, be unto Him that sits upon the throne, and upon the Lamb for the eons of the eons" (Rev. 5:13). end of Qoute.
Notice the scriptures says under the earth... and all that are in them, heard I saying... They are all alive saying that!!, that is a salvation of all scripture! Now this clearly speaks to Lauriellen question, please feel free to read her question again.
Better yet here it is ....Can someone point me to any place Ray may have discussed these scriptures and what is meant by things/creatures/man UNDER the earth? I am not understanding how this could be talking about dead humans bowing/speaking?
I think I answered her Question, They are not dead they are alive! Good night Alex, God Bless you!
Mike Gagne:
Hi Lauriellen, these scripture all require some actions from those mentioned... heres those scriptures you quoted:
Php_2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things UNDER the earth;
Rev_5:3 And no man in heaven, nor in earth, neither UNDER the earth, was able to open the book, neither to look thereon.
Rev_5:13 And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and UNDER the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.
I would say they would all have to be alive to perform these actions! Have a nice day everyone.
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