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[Joel]

Genesis 2:6-But there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground.
What would the earth have looked like geographically before downpours of rain?

Whatever Adam was doing in the garden must not have been back breaking labor that caused him to sweat.
Cursed ground and "sweat of thy face" comes after judgment. Genesis 3:17-19

Genesis 7:11-In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened.
12-And the rain was upon the earth forty days and forty nights.

How much water could have been added by the fountains of the GREAT DEEP?
Is there a difference in windows of heaven, and rain from heaven?
What parts of the earth see rainbows?

Genesis 8:2 The fountains also of the deep and the windows of heaven were stopped, and the rain from heaven was restrained;

What was Noah saying to the ungodly during his time of preaching? Had the people ever seen rain?
If rain was common during the time of Noah, were there not rainbows also? I don't think so.
Genesis 9:13-I do now set my bow in the cloud, and it shall be for a token of a covenant between me and the earth.


2 Peter 2:5-And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly.

Joel





 

[indianabob]

Hi Joel,
Thanks for the added comments.

There are a multitude of options for what the earth, the planet, looked like before recorded history came along about 4500 years ago. The mountain heights, the frozen poles, the vegetation, the numbers of humans living on this planet etc.

The fact is that we, commoners as well as the great minds of science, just don't know how the earth appeared or how the climate functioned during the past millennia.
The billions of papers written on the subject are plain speculation based upon the opinions of previous science writers of plain speculation.

To my mind, sincere speculation is O. K., but it (speculation) should not contradict inspired scripture no matter how many thousands or millions of scientist concur with it.

Isn't the spiritual lesson that mankind, doing what seemed right to themselves, had become so evil that God had to start over with eight not so perfect individuals?

And don't we, who believe God, realize that God knew from the beginning that a "do over" would be needed? I think so...

And there is another "do over" coming soon.

Ole "indianabob"

[rick]

And don't we, who believe God, realize that God knew from the beginning that a "do over" would be needed? I think so...

Hi Bob,

I知 not sure how to interpret your statement above, for one to say God needs to do a do over in my opinion is saying God made a mistake and needs to correct the mistake He made in my opinion.

Its to my understanding we humans are made in vanity in order to learn virtue through righteousness otherwise all this evil and wickedness in our lives would be in vain.

I値l be first to admit there are so many things I don稚 understand concerning spiritual things, I was just reading on this forum that some have the view that Adam and Eve are symbolic but I say if that is so then maybe I知 symbolic too but I believe Adam and Eve were real people just like me.

I wonder can a person be so spiritual or heavenly minded that they become no earthly good ?   

[dave]

First rain. Gen 7:4  For yet seven days, and I will cause it to rain upon the earth forty days and forty nights; and every living substance that I have made will I destroy from off the face of the earth.

Earth:


From an unused root probably meaning to be firm; the earth (at large, or partitively a land): -    X common, country, earth, field, ground, land, X nations, way, + wilderness, world.

I don't quite understand. I posted the first time rain in mentioned, what has From an unused root probably meaning to be firm; the earth (at large, or partitively a land): -    X common, country, earth, field, ground, land, X nations, way, + wilderness, world.
to do with anything?

[indianabob]

Hi Rick,
Thank you for the sincere critique.
Sorry to be obtuse in my comments. Short statements such as mine are prone to be misunderstood. I knew what I was thinking, but did not make my thoughts clear.

1. I agree that God does not make mistakes.
2. The "do over" I was referring to was meant to acknowledge that God was doing his will in more than one phase. That God knew exactly what Adam and Eve would do and what all of their children would do. AND that God was not in the least surprised. God knew that he would have to destroy the whole population AND all the gross things that they had built. Especially considering that they would most probably retain their memories of what life had been like during their first life and it would not be helpful for them to believe that God approved of the way they had lived then.

So then from the human perspective, the fact of the need to begin again with Noah to spread the human population over the whole earth, could seem to be a "do over".

Of course God had everything under His control and knew from the beginning that this burying of the first population of humans was to reserve them to a later time when God's son would be ruling in righteousness and justice.

In like manner, the population that came from Noah and spread over the earth once again will need to be put to sleep and then brought back when conditions are right for the teaching of righteousness. So that then is the second or subsequent "do over" (phase 2)

All planned from the beginning although not revealed by God to the general population and in fact not revealed unto the prophets or even the angels of God until God was ready to reveal His mysteries to a select group of called out persons that God would then use for His own great purpose of teaching righteousness under the reign of His son Jesus.

I hope that will explain a little better and thank you for bringing my poor explanation to my attention.

Sincerely, indianabob

And don't we, who believe God, realize that God knew from the beginning that a "do over" would be needed? I think so...

Hi Bob,

I知 not sure how to interpret your statement above, for one to say God needs to do a do over in my opinion is saying God made a mistake and needs to correct the mistake He made in my opinion.

Its to my understanding we humans are made in vanity in order to learn virtue through righteousness otherwise all this evil and wickedness in our lives would be in vain.

I値l be first to admit there are so many things I don稚 understand concerning spiritual things, I was just reading on this forum that some have the view that Adam and Eve are symbolic but I say if that is so then maybe I知 symbolic too but I believe Adam and Eve were real people just like me.

I wonder can a person be so spiritual or heavenly minded that they become no earthly good ?   

[Dave in Tenn]

I have zero desire to contradict inspired scripture.  I don't mind a whit contradicting theologians and translators.  In fact, I think it's not only GOOD, but necessary.

[Dave in Tenn]

I wonder can a person be so spiritual or heavenly minded that they become no earthly good ?   

I'd have to say "NO" to this, but then I'd just open up a can of worms about what it means to be "spiritually minded".

Guys and girls, we are not going to convince each other on these matters.  I know this is true, because I can't count the number of times 'we' have tried since October of 2008.  Ray made himself clear on these (or as clear as was possible in a 2 day conference and a little subsequent study).  Yet MUCH of what I've read on the forum on these topics since then (and I read pretty much EVERYTHING, since it's kinda my job) has either been a rejection of that study or (often unfounded) speculation that goes beyond what Ray had to say.  I'm not 'not guilty' of this myself.

In order for any of you to 'follow' my train of thought (and for me to follow any of yours) would require a background that very closely resembles my own (or for me to have one that very closely resembles yours).  I don't believe as I did when I was a boy and a young man in babylon.  It's been one long string of repentance and struggle--sometimes with joy, sometimes with pain, sometimes with awe and trembling.  And in most ways, I wouldn't wish my 'background' on my worst enemy, much less any of you. 

This 'very close' similarity of background hasn't happened, by the will of God.  Yet I have to 'love one another' and grow in the fruit of His Spirit--love, joy, faith, peace, patience, long-suffering) my own self, even though everybody else is "wrong" and surely needs to do that more than I do. 

Of course NOW, all my thoughts are right.  After all, His thoughts are my thoughts and His ways are my ways. (I'm pretty sure that's in the bible).  How could it be any other way?  Think about it.   

     

[lilitalienboi16]

Time to shut her down dave. We know by ray and through God's word that the flood was not global. We know too that adam and eve were not the first people on this planet but a very special people to God. We know that all these things no longer pertain after the flesh but after the spirirt. Those who worshop God must worship Him in spirirt and truth. Flee from evil, repent and circumcise your hearts! In God's time we will attain the unity of the faith that we strive for but some area's of scripture are purposely left without certain conclusion. Perhaps to keep us humble and remind us all of who gives understanding and who shuts up the book.

God bless brothers and sisters and may God keep you until that day.
Alex

[indianabob]

Dear "young" friend Alex,

I appreciate and agree with your last statement with the obvious exception of your leading sentence.

"We know by ray and through God's word that the flood was not global."

Who is this WE that you speak of?     

I have examined the evidence available to me and totally disagree with your conclusion.
I do not however with to make an issue of my considered "elderly" understanding.
I only hope to live long enough to witness your future enlightenment.

Kindly offered, your friend in the faith, ole Indiana Bob

[lilitalienboi16]

Dear "young" friend Alex,

I appreciate and agree with your last statement with the obvious exception of your leading sentence.

"We know by ray and through God's word that the flood was not global."

Who is this WE that you speak of?     

I have examined the evidence available to me and totally disagree with your conclusion.
I do not however with to make an issue of my considered "elderly" understanding.
I only hope to live long enough to witness your future enlightenment.

Kindly offered, your friend in the faith, ole Indiana Bob

Dearest elder bob!

I adore and respect your words of wisdom!

I must inform you though, perhaps to your greatest disaapointment, that I may remain no more enlightened than a doornail the rest of my days!

Your little brother in tragedy,
Much love,
Alex!

 

[octoberose]

Before you 'shut her down', I thought I heard a video once with Ray talking about Noah. I searched under Ray's Audio and nothing came up. If it exists, maybe you all could post that link?
 I spent the weekend with my granddaughter for her 3rd birthday.  She's the sweetest thing. When receiving one of her gifts she said, "Oh, it's perfectly lovely!"  I don't say it enough, but thank you all for the perfectly lovely gifts you give to me. 
 

[lilitalienboi16]

Before you 'shut her down', I thought I heard a video once with Ray talking about Noah. I searched under Ray's Audio and nothing came up. If it exists, maybe you all could post that link?
 I spent the weekend with my granddaughter for her 3rd birthday.  She's the sweetest thing. When receiving one of her gifts she said, "Oh, it's perfectly lovely!"  I don't say it enough, but thank you all for the perfectly lovely gifts you give to me. 
 

Proverbs 27:17  Iron sharpeneth iron; so a man sharpeneth the countenance of his friend.

Proverbs 11:14 Where no counsel is, the people fall: but in the multitude of counsellors there is safety.

Thank YOU for the thread rose! Glad you had a good weekend with your grand daughter! My daughter is having a hard time in a new place but I think she's starting to adjust. She misses "nanna" and "pappa." I took God with me so I don't feel so far away from home but for her I understand how it can be hard.

God bless,
Alex

[Dennis Vogel]

Is this what you are looking for: https://youtu.be/QMbxaFCJ59c ?

[cjwood]

alex, you crack me up little brother!  i don't happen to believe though that you will be no more enlightened than a doornail the rest of your days.  God willing, you will have many days ahead of you that will bring enlightenment by His Spirit within you.  you still be so young yet!   

just sayin.
claudia

[lilitalienboi16]

alex, you crack me up little brother!  i don't happen to believe though that you will be no more enlightened than a doornail the rest of your days.  God willing, you will have many days ahead of you that will bring enlightenment by His Spirit within you.  you still be so young yet!   

just sayin.
claudia

Well I love you too sister! 

To have many more days would truly be nice only because there is so much work to do in me still! My heart every now and then likes to beat to some strange rhythm, strange enough to spook me, that it makes me think my days could be few! I try and look at it as God reminding me of just how truly in control He is over that breath of life He's given me.

Thanks for saying
Alex

[octoberose]

Is this what you are looking for: https://youtu.be/QMbxaFCJ59c ?

I think that's it This is what you just put on You Tube !

[Doug]

Hi Alex,

I'm not a doctor and not very educated so take this for what it's worth. The heart issue could be something as simple as low magnesium levels. That will cause what you described. It would be very easy to add food high in magnesium and see what happens. Also, sugar and processed food are certainly best limited since they can block nutrients absorbing properly.

Doug