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[ciy]

Interesting article in Newsweek this week.  Billy Graham is now a believer in universalism.  I hope he finds the whole truth of many called few chosen.  He seems to really be seeking the truth now.
Amazing how God works.
CIY

[prarrydog]

   I skimmed the article and is this the part you are talking about:

When asked whether he believes heaven will be closed to good Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus or secular people, though, Graham says: "Those are decisions only the Lord will make. It would be foolish for me to speculate on who will be there and who won't ... I don't want to speculate about all that. I believe the love of God is absolute. He said he gave his son for the whole world, and I think he loves everybody regardless of what label they have." Such an ecumenical spirit may upset some Christian hard-liners, but in Graham's view, only God knows who is going to be saved

I don't think you can say he is a believer in universalism based on this comment.  If there is more I must have missed it.

[Bill]

I read the article as well and came to the same conclusion as prayrydog.

A unifying theme of Graham's new thinking is humility. He is sure and certain of his faith in Jesus as the way to salvation. When asked whether he believes heaven will be closed to good Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus or secular people, though, Graham says: "Those are decisions only the Lord will make. It would be foolish for me to speculate on who will be there and who won't ... I don't want to speculate about all that. I believe the love of God is absolute. He said he gave his son for the whole world, and I think he loves everybody regardless of what label they have." Such an ecumenical spirit may upset some Christian hard-liners, but in Graham's view, only God knows who is going to be saved: "As an evangelist for more than six decades, Mr. Graham has faithfully proclaimed the Bible's Gospel message that Jesus is the only way to Heaven," says Graham spokesman A. Larry Ross. "However, salvation is the work of Almighty God, and only he knows what is in each human heart."

Bill

[ciy]

There were other implications of his belief that is now different from other famous leaders such as Jerry Falwell.  There were the sentences how all the conservative religious leaders differed now with Graham.  Franklin Graham remarks that he does not believe like his daddy.  If Billy Graham believes that all are going to end up in heaven what do you call it? 

An article by Tom Flannery, a religious journalist, entitled Billy Graham's Apostasy is completely about his new belief that all will go to heaven.  The following quote,

"After more than six decades spent preaching the Gospel – the truth that we can only be saved by God's grace through faith alone in Christ – Billy Graham now says non-Christians in other faiths (false religions) and secular humanists may be going to heaven."

The quote you posted "Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus or secular people, though, Graham says: "Those are decisions only the Lord will make. It would be foolish for me to speculate on who will be there and who won't ... I don't want to speculate about all that. I believe the love of God is absolute."  This is a 180 degree turn from his patented sermon that Jesus is the only way. 

Maybe it is a matter of opinion, but I do not think so.  I believe Billy Graham is coming to the true truth, and I think it is something to rejoice about. 
CIY

[Bill]

Hello CIY,

If he does believe that Christ will save all I do not think it is clear in the article and yes if God has showed this to him we should rejoice but I think that is going to be Billy's little secret.

"After more than six decades spent preaching the Gospel – the truth that we can only be saved by God's grace through faith alone in Christ – Billy Graham now says non-Christians in other faiths (false religions) and secular humanists may be going to heaven."

Christ might not save all he will save all.

The quote you posted "Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus or secular people, though, Graham says: "Those are decisions only the Lord will make. It would be foolish for me to speculate on who will be there and who won't ... I don't want to speculate about all that. I believe the love of God is absolute."  This is a 180 degree turn from his patented sermon that Jesus is the only way. 

There is no won't about it.  He will save all.

Maybe it is a matter of opinion, but I do not think so.  I believe Billy Graham is coming to the true truth, and I think it is something to rejoice about. 
CIY

Yes, it might be a matter of opinion.  But per the article he does not yet seem convinced or he is keeping that to himself.

Bill

[ciy]

If you do not see this as a mega move for Billy Graham from where he was to what he is saying now, then we just are not seeing the article the same.  I believe you will see more people remarking of his new beliefs and I believe some will say it is just because he is a senile old man.  I believe it is because he started seeing the love of God better especially after the antisemitic tapes were released in 2002.  He started studying the scriptures more and began to see the truth. 

Go to World Net Daily and read the article by Tom Flannery.  I believe he, like many in the religious society, already know about his change of belief. 

But when it boils down to it, if he is he is if he ain't he ain't.  Like us all it is all about the conditions of our hearts.  Only God knows our hearts.
CIY

[Andy_MI]

I believe Billy Graham is coming to the true truth, and I think it is something to rejoice about.     

Amen ciy!
 I've always felt in my spirit that Billy Graham was and is a man of God. It would be wonderful if Billy Graham received the truth of UR before he dies. I think we should all pray that happens!

[ciy]

Andy I agree.  I think we should pray for the continuation of Billy Graham's revelation of Jesus Christ. 

One more quote from the article by Tom Flannery:

"Meacham hails Graham's conversion (so to speak) on the primary issue of salvation as an enlightened ecumenism, when it's really nothing more than age-old universalism – the erroneous idea that all roads lead to God and we're all going to get to heaven one way or another. This is the "I'm all right, you're all right" philosophy of the world."

CIY

[chuckusa]

Hi all,

I'm not trying to divert the subject, I hope its a simple answer....but in reading this thread I am forming a question. What is the difference between "universalism" and "a universalist" ?

Thanks for anything you can tell me,
Chuck

[Bill]

Hi all,

I'm not trying to divert the subject, I hope its a simple answer....but in reading this thread I am forming a question. What is the difference between "universalism" and "a universalist" ?

Thanks for anything you can tell me,
Chuck

One is a belief and the other is a person that believes the belief.  Just like Christianity and Christian or Islam and Muslim.  A universalist believes in universalism.

Bill

[jenny06]

I hope this is the explanation you were looking for, Chuck.

-ism
suff.
Action; process; practice

-ist
suff.

One that performs a specified action

n.
Universalism
Theology. The doctrine of universal salvation.

[jenny06]

I think if he were seriously contemplating universal Salvation, he would declare it openly.  He has changed a lot of his thoughts over the years; for instance, he put up a fight when his daughter told him she wanted to preach and now he appears to be fine with it.  I agree with bobby, he seems to hold to political correctness too tightly.  If God is revealing truth to BG, then praise God. 
Jenny 

[Harryfeat]

From what has been said and quoted here, there is only a weakening of a strong position.  My guess is that if Billy now truly believes in UR he is breaking it to the world gradually rather than making that radical 180 change that leaves most people shaking their heads.

feat

[chuckusa]

Hi all,

I'm not trying to divert the subject, I hope its a simple answer....but in reading this thread I am forming a question. What is the difference between "universalism" and "a universalist" ?

Thanks for anything you can tell me,
Chuck

Well, to be honest I meant what do YOU think it is? I'm not sure being associated with that term is a good thing. And no, it wasn't a trick question, in case you are thinking that now.

What I was trying to ask, without taking the thread the wrong way or offending anyone was this:

If one is open to Universalism, why does that make them a Universalist? In most cases, terms like that don't refer to concepts that can be explained in a sentence or two. I was looking for YOUR angle on this. Putting in a simple web search for "universalist" brings up things I don't agree with.

I feel like this is too far off the original subject so.....just wanted to say thanks for the responses.

Thanks,
Chuck

[chuckusa]

Chuck when someone would ask what denomination I belong to I give them the same answer(a good one by the way) that Ray gave when asked this question:

THE SAME ONE JESUS BELONGS TO

I personally do not hold either title you posted but this is the one I feel comforatble with:

A FOLLOWER OF CHRIST AND HIS TRUTH.

What church do you belong to:

THE CHURCH OF THE LIVING GOD

Acts 17:24 God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands;

bobby

Hi Bob,

That is a very good way of putting it. I read Rays thoughts on that and I agree, but I bet it raises some eyebrows from time to time!!!!

My point was to see WHY anyone puts labels on someone. It seems that being a "Universalist" is just another "denomination". I don't want ANY labels on me, and I won't accept it.

I don't know anything about Mr. G. other than the fact that I've seen him on TV and I know he is a  Christian, so I have no issue with him or the members who posted. I am just curious.

So here it is:

I AM A FOLLOWER OF CHRIST AND HIS TRUTH!

I BELONG TO THE CHURCH OF THE LIVING GOD!

God Bless,
Chuck

[ned]

Chuck when someone would ask what denomination I belong to I give them the same answer(a good one by the way) that Ray gave when asked this question:

THE SAME ONE JESUS BELONGS TO

I personally do not hold either title you posted but this is the one I feel comforatble with:

A FOLLOWER OF CHRIST AND HIS TRUTH.

What church do you belong to:

THE CHURCH OF THE LIVING GOD

Acts 17:24 God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands;

bobby

Hi Bob,
.........................
So here it is:

I AM A FOLLOWER OF CHRIST AND HIS TRUTH!

I BELONG TO THE CHURCH OF THE LIVING GOD!

God Bless,
Chuck

Hi Bobby & Chuck!
I like it!  That's where I belong too.  I'll use your quotes if you don't mind.
Love,
Marie

[Alan]

This would be my thoughts on Billy Graham and his new found thinking!

First........ he says that he thinks that everyone may be going to heaven. I have a problem with that right there because what the Spirit has shown me is that no man goes to heaven.
When we die......we die. It will take being resurrected to live again which we then will be given immortality.

Second..... according to scripture, the doctrine of UR is just milk of the word. When BG starts talking about spiritual meat and it lines up with the doctrine of Christ, then I will
listen to the man.

If God decides to remove his blindness, then I will rejoice. I wish everyone could have eyes to see and ears to hear, but it's all according to God's Will and His good purpose!

I will say a prayer for him.

Alan

[Beloved]

Even if Billy Graham believes that All will be saved, we need to remember that this doctrine is still milk and not meat. 

           
(Heb 6:1 KJVR) 
Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
(Heb 6:2 KJVR)  Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.

I agree with chuckusa but think we should refrain from using terms like universalism, universalist, etc.  Many organizations (christian and pseudo-christian) have adopted this term and their many of their teachings have distorted God’s word.

For anyone who is interested in learning about some of these terms there are several sources that go into detail about some of the confusion about the use of these terms.

For the early church this was never an issue, today these labels used by theologians have become confusing and misused and abused. 

There are hundreds of scriptures that support that ALL will be saved and we do not have to label this truth.  Let us all try to remember always that this is milk. For many christians even this milk is too tough to swallow.

I  understand the need to learn to be precise with our language, so a review of this material is not a bad thing. 


Beloved

[Harryfeat]

Even if Billy Graham believes that All will be saved, we need to remember that this doctrine is still milk and not meat. 



There are hundreds of scriptures that support that ALL will be saved and we do not have to label this truth.  Let us all try to remember always that this is milk. For many christians even this milk is too tough to swallow.

I  understand the need to learn to be precise with our language, so a review of this material is not a bad thing. 


Beloved

Hello Beloved,

Even after reading all of Ray's material, I am still confused as to what is milk and what is beef, scripturally that is.  You state the understanding that all will be saved is milk.  Where's the beef?  

Since the promised land is a land flowing with mlk and honey, do the meat eaters get disappointed.

Seriously though, what in your opinion, qualifies as "meat"?

feat

[Craig]

Hello Beloved,

Even after reading all of Ray's material, I am still confused as to what is milk and what is beef, scripturally that is.  You state the understanding that all will be saved is milk.  Where's the beef?  

Since the promised land is a land flowing with mlk and honey, do the meat eaters get disappointed.

Seriously though, what in your opinion, qualifies as "meat"?

feat

Christ living in us and through us, and dying to self is the meat.  IMO

Craig