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Author Topic: Saving Private Ryan  (Read 7649 times)

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Gina

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Re: Saving Private Ryan
« Reply #40 on: May 30, 2015, 06:03:17 AM »

God does not do evil.  He created evil.  But evil is not His way.

Satan is the primary agent of evil.  That is why God created him.  To be the destroyer.

In the Book of Job, we learn it was Satan who used a wind storm to kill Job's 10 children.  Which is why Satan is called the prince of the power of the air.  Satan is the god of this world.  Weather events that kill come from Satan, as do wars and killing and sickness and disease.  It was Satan that caused Job's sickness.

God sets the bounds of evil and Satan, or things would be much, much worse if Satan were left to himself.

A sovereign God is responsible for all and will in the end destroy evil and bring about total good.

Jesus was a sin offering and made an atonement for what mankind has suffered by dying the death by torture.  Jesus was Antipas, the faithful witness, Who came on behalf of the Father.  He will save all.

As for the Amalekites, they were not wiped out by the Israelites.  It was an Amalekite that killed King Saul.  If they had been wiped out, then how could one kill the King?  Am I going too fast for anyone?

Unfortunately for the Israelites, they did not destroy the Amalekites and the other sinful peoples in the promised land.

These people led the Israelites to follow their pagan practices, which included the sacrifice of babies.


The Amalekites were to have their babies killed because they killed babies.  Just like the Egyptians had their first born killed because they killed the babies of others.  Justice.  God deals with people at the level they understand and how they do to others.  This understanding comes from thinking about God's ways as guided by the Spirit.

By not following God's commands, the Israelites brought down the judgment of God upon themselves for the evil practices they learned from the other people in the land.

But be it known, the Great God is not evil and does not do evil, but God turns evil to good....in the appointed times.

I'm sorry, did you say that God commanded the Israelites to do unto the Amalekites' babies what the Amalekites did to their own babies?  That's not the reason that God gave to them:


1 Samuel 15:2 Thus says the Lord of hosts, I have noted what Amalek did to Israel in opposing them on the way when they came up out of Egypt. 

This says nothing about the reason being because the people of Amalek sacrificed their own babies.  That makes no sense.  I'm not saying that they didn't later destroy their own children, or that they hadn't previously done those things, but that is not the reason that God wanted them destroyed, at least initially.  It was because Amalek OPPOSED Israel.  It says nothing about the Amalek babies being sacrificed.

Also, if the reason that God uses an "eye for an eye" they would have been completely out of order in killing the babies, since up to that point the babies themselves were INNOCENT.

Ray pointed out that the reason God wanted them destroyed is because God knew that these same babies would grow up to become as they would -- Baal worshipers.  But that still was not the reason that the Israelites were told to kill them.  It was strictly for how Amalek OPPOSED Israel.  Period.

Satan is called the "prince of the power of the air" because he stirs up windstorms?

Is it true that the reason God pointed out the righteous Job to Satan was to do to him what Job had done to his own children?  Is that what you're saying?

Job never did those things to his own children, so what do you mean God was doing "Justice" to Job?   You said, "God deals with people at the level they understand and how they do to others.  This understanding comes from thinking about God's ways as guided by the Spirit."

God's spirit has lead you to believe that the cause of Satan dealing those "blows" to Job's CHILDREN was because that  is how Job treated his own children and God was just teaching Job on the level that Job understood? 

Wow, that just blows me away.
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lilitalienboi16

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Re: Saving Private Ryan
« Reply #41 on: May 30, 2015, 12:59:12 PM »

Hi Gina,

If I may chime in with what I currently understand of the history of this area. I welcome any criticism or input.

I think John is recognizing the fact that the Amekelites dwelt in the land of Canaan (Num 13:29) and shared many customs with the Canaan people due to them both inhabiting the promise land. Molek was the god that these people would sacrifice their children to by causing them to "pass through the fire." (2 Chron 28:3, Jer 19) The closeness of the Amekelites and the Canaanites is evident in the fact that they both joined together to attack Isreal after the Isrealites had departed from Egypt towards that promise land (Num 14:45). God had warned Isreal not to follow after the practices of the people who inhabited the land He was about to give them and to utterly destroy them so that they would not be polluted by their practices (Ex 23: 23, Ex 23:32-33, Numb 33:51-56, Lev 18:21).

Isreal's failure to destroy its enemies would lead them to follow after the pagan gods of the the land, including moloch.

Psalm 106:34-38
34 They did not destroy the nations, concerning whom the Lord commanded them:
35 But were mingled among the heathen, and learned their works.
36 And they served their idols: which were a snare unto them.
37 Yea, they sacrificed their sons and their daughters unto devils,
38 And shed innocent blood, even the blood of their sons and of their daughters, whom they sacrificed unto the idols of Canaan: and the land was polluted with blood.

Judges 2:12 And they forsook the Lord God of their fathers, which brought them out of the land of Egypt, and followed other gods, of the gods of the people that were round about them, and bowed themselves unto them, and provoked the Lord to anger.

I don't think its a stretch of the imagination by any means to believe that the Amekilites participated in the worship of moloch which included the sacrifice of "sons and daughters," and perhaps even infants.

You are right to point out that in that specific instance God did not mention their pagan practices as a reason for their destruction but God had long ago declared judgment on the people of Canaan for their wicked ways.

Genesis 13:12 Abram dwelled in the land of Canaan, and Lot dwelled in the cities of the plain, and pitched his tent toward Sodom.
Genesis 13:14 And the Lord said unto Abram, after that Lot was separated from him, Lift up now thine eyes, and look from the place where thou art northward, and southward, and eastward, and westward:
Genesis 13:15 For all the land which thou seest, to thee will I give it, and to thy seed for ever.

Genesis 15:13-21
13 And he said unto Abram, Know of a surety that thy seed shall be a stranger in a land that is not theirs, and shall serve them; and they shall afflict them four hundred years;
14 And also that nation, whom they shall serve, will I judge: and afterward shall they come out with great substance.
15 And thou shalt go to thy fathers in peace; thou shalt be buried in a good old age.
16 But in the fourth generation they shall come hither again [Land of Canaan]: for the iniquity of the Amorites is not yet full.
17 And it came to pass, that, when the sun went down, and it was dark, behold a smoking furnace, and a burning lamp that passed between those pieces.
18 In the same day the Lord made a covenant with Abram, saying, Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates:
19 The Kenites, and the Kenizzites, and the Kadmonites,
20 And the Hittites, and the Perizzites, and the Rephaims,
21 And the Amorites, and the Canaanites, and the Girgashites, and the Jebusites.

Or...

Genesis 15:16 (TLB) After four generations they [Isrealites] will return here to this land [Canaan]; for the wickedness of the Amorite nations living here will not be ready for punishment until then.

God bless,
Alex
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1 Cor 1:10 "Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment."

Gina

  • Guest
Re: Saving Private Ryan
« Reply #42 on: May 30, 2015, 05:21:59 PM »

Hi Gina,

If I may chime in with what I currently understand of the history of this area. I welcome any criticism or input.

I think John is recognizing the fact that the Amekelites dwelt in the land of Canaan (Num 13:29) and shared many customs with the Canaan people due to them both inhabiting the promise land. Molek was the god that these people would sacrifice their children to by causing them to "pass through the fire." (2 Chron 28:3, Jer 19) The closeness of the Amekelites and the Canaanites is evident in the fact that they both joined together to attack Isreal after the Isrealites had departed from Egypt towards that promise land (Num 14:45). God had warned Isreal not to follow after the practices of the people who inhabited the land He was about to give them and to utterly destroy them so that they would not be polluted by their practices (Ex 23: 23, Ex 23:32-33, Numb 33:51-56, Lev 18:21).

Isreal's failure to destroy its enemies would lead them to follow after the pagan gods of the the land, including moloch.

Psalm 106:34-38
34 They did not destroy the nations, concerning whom the Lord commanded them:
35 But were mingled among the heathen, and learned their works.
36 And they served their idols: which were a snare unto them.
37 Yea, they sacrificed their sons and their daughters unto devils,
38 And shed innocent blood, even the blood of their sons and of their daughters, whom they sacrificed unto the idols of Canaan: and the land was polluted with blood.

Judges 2:12 And they forsook the Lord God of their fathers, which brought them out of the land of Egypt, and followed other gods, of the gods of the people that were round about them, and bowed themselves unto them, and provoked the Lord to anger.

I don't think its a stretch of the imagination by any means to believe that the Amekilites participated in the worship of moloch which included the sacrifice of "sons and daughters," and perhaps even infants.

You are right to point out that in that specific instance God did not mention their pagan practices as a reason for their destruction but God had long ago declared judgment on the people of Canaan for their wicked ways.

Genesis 13:12 Abram dwelled in the land of Canaan, and Lot dwelled in the cities of the plain, and pitched his tent toward Sodom.
Genesis 13:14 And the Lord said unto Abram, after that Lot was separated from him, Lift up now thine eyes, and look from the place where thou art northward, and southward, and eastward, and westward:
Genesis 13:15 For all the land which thou seest, to thee will I give it, and to thy seed for ever.

Genesis 15:13-21
13 And he said unto Abram, Know of a surety that thy seed shall be a stranger in a land that is not theirs, and shall serve them; and they shall afflict them four hundred years;
14 And also that nation, whom they shall serve, will I judge: and afterward shall they come out with great substance.
15 And thou shalt go to thy fathers in peace; thou shalt be buried in a good old age.
16 But in the fourth generation they shall come hither again [Land of Canaan]: for the iniquity of the Amorites is not yet full.
17 And it came to pass, that, when the sun went down, and it was dark, behold a smoking furnace, and a burning lamp that passed between those pieces.
18 In the same day the Lord made a covenant with Abram, saying, Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates:
19 The Kenites, and the Kenizzites, and the Kadmonites,
20 And the Hittites, and the Perizzites, and the Rephaims,
21 And the Amorites, and the Canaanites, and the Girgashites, and the Jebusites.

Or...

Genesis 15:16 (TLB) After four generations they [Isrealites] will return here to this land [Canaan]; for the wickedness of the Amorite nations living here will not be ready for punishment until then.

God bless,
Alex,

Hi Alex

Sure. I agree that God made it clear what they were doing to their children. 

I had an additional observation aftervi posted .  It is interesting to me they were not completely wiped out.  Think about that for a minute.  Whatever God wills will be done.  Not halfway either.  Remember when God told Adam and eve not to eat of the FRUIT of the tree of knowledge of good and evil and yet He made certain they did?   So did God NOT will that the Amalekites be entirely wiped out ?  Obviously because if that is what he wanted he would have made sure they were wiped out.  It is true.  I believe it was because God wanted to show Israel just how depraved they were. Ref Ezekiel chapter 16.  And if Israel was MORE depraved, then God would have wiped out their children as welll and I don't see where that happened to them.  Isn't that right? Ezekiel chapter 16 is a trip especially the very end.

I'll stop there cause I think I'm bordering on teaching . Feel free to delete this mods iif so.  :) And by the way, welcome Joel!
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Joel

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Re: Saving Private Ryan
« Reply #43 on: May 30, 2015, 08:35:26 PM »

Thanks for the welcome Gina,
In my study of the scriptures some verses in Judges have done much to help understand why things happened the way they did.
Judges 2:21-23 I also will not henceforth drive out any from before them of the nations which Joshua left when he died: That through them I may prove Israel, whether they will keep the way of the LORD to walk therein, as their fathers did keep it, or not. Therefore the LORD left those nations, without driving them out hastily; neither delivered he them into the hand of Joshua.
Judges 3:1-7 verse 1-Now these are the nations which the LORD left, to prove Israel by them, even as many of Israel as had not known all the wars of Canaan;
And so on, I see no contradictions if line on line and precept on precept is applied.
GOD is the potter, and we are the clay, all of his judgments are just.

Joel



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Gina

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Re: Saving Private Ryan
« Reply #44 on: May 30, 2015, 09:02:40 PM »

Joel, I agree.  God's judgments are just.  But to hear some tell it, you'd think God didn't have a sound mind.
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