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Did Jesus cease to be God when he became incarnate?

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lilitalienboi16:

--- Quote from: virginiabm on June 01, 2015, 03:29:10 PM ---Hi Gina, I think you might have misunderstood my thoughts. I do not think for one minute that Jesus disrepected Mary in any way. My thoughts were did He consider Mary to be His mother? Everyone called her His mother, but when Jesus addressed her, He called her woman. Our Saviour died for her as well as everybody eles. He loves her just like He loves us.  I don't think calling her mother would put her above God or make Jesus a mama's boy.
As for women being the down fall of men, I think it goes both ways if you are not with the right person. We all have a knack for hurting each other in some way, fashion or form. 
   I know Jesus was all about His Father, as we all should be, but my thoughts were did Jesus consider Mary to be His mother? Or did He consider her just another disciple to be taught? As you pointed out, she did not know who Jesus was even though she got pregnant without a mans help. I do hope i have made myself clear. I would hate it if someone thought I was disrepecting my Savior in any way. That was not the reason I brought up my thoughts on this subject.       In Love , virginia miller

--- End quote ---

Hi Virginia,

This may tie into the fact that God is no respector of person. Jesus is, was, and will be God. He emptied Himself of some of His divinity so that He could take on the form of a man and die, so that he could be subject to death, but he still retained that mind of God. There is neither male nor female, jew nor greek, bond nor free, for we are all one in Christ. This would have included how Jesus saw marry. Just because she gave birth to Him, doesn't mean that she is somehow any more important to God than the rest of us. We are all unique and special to God and will all bring something that He doesn't want to exist without in the kingdom, regardless of whether our flesh and blood gave birth to His flesh.

2 Corinthians 5:16 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more [after the flesh].

Put on the mind of Christ. Have the mind of Christ. So then who is His mother now? Those that are His brothers, His sisters, His mother etc... are those that do the will of His Father--Who worship the Father in Spirit and truth. Therefor there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ AND who walk not after the flesh BUT AFTER the spirit.

In the relative Marry is the mother of Jesus physically but in the absolute from God's perspective, who is no respector of person's, a mother or brother or sister of Christ is the one who does the Will of God. Jerusalem which is above is the mother of us all. I can't see it any different for Christ who is our example and who as existing we too are existing.

God bless,
Alex

rick:

--- Quote from: lilitalienboi16 on May 31, 2015, 05:41:51 PM ---
--- Quote from: octoberose on May 31, 2015, 04:50:39 PM ---Well, here's a question that goes along with this subject. Is it the belief here at bible truths that Jesus was the physical son of Mary, or was Mary just a conduit for the person of Jesus? In other words, did God provide both the male and female spectrum of Jesus?  The question comes because there are some who believe that if Jesus was physically "of man" then he inherited the sin of Adam, and we know there was no sin in him. I always took that to mean that He committed no sin- but we are born with Adams sin also.  However, Jesus is referred to as "the man, Jesus Christ". So, I am in a quandary about this.

--- End quote ---

Hi Rose,

Can you please explain where it says in the bible that Jesus or anyone inherited adam's sin? I see that death passed to all for all have sinned but I don't see where sin passed to all.


--- End quote ---

Hi Rose,

I agree with Alex on this one.

I remember Ray said something about we don’t sin because of Adam's sin, we sin because we choose to sin and here is the reason why we all sin.

Rom 8:20  For the creation was subjected to vanity, not of its own will, but by reason of him who subjected it, in hope .
Also these scripture too, 

Rom 7:14  We know that the law is spiritual, but I am not. I am so human. Sin rules me as if I were its slave.
Rom 7:15  I don't understand why I act the way I do. I don't do the good I want to do, and I do the evil I hate.
Rom 7:16  And if I don't want to do what I do, that means I agree that the law is good.
Rom 7:17  But I am not really the one doing the evil. It is sin living in me that does it.



God Bless you Rose, see you on the other side.  :)

Gina:
One more thought:  God's word says, "They do honor me with their lips but their hearts are far from me."

The first Adam fell down and worshipped a woman after he exclaimed how much he adored her, and he became one with her in the lust of the flesh, and then turned around and blamed her, and vice versa...

Jesus the Last Adam all through His life honored Mary, not with his lips, but by obeying His Father in Heaven. 

Jesus honored Mary as His mother, of course He did.  Didn't He admonish the Pharisees for NOT honoring their parents?  They honored their parents with their lips, but their hearts were clearly far from them.   

Had He gone around addressing her as "my mother," His words:  "Who is my mother, brother and sister..." would have, I don't know, made no sense.  Besides, it matters not what you say, it's what you DO.  "Why call me Lord, and not do what I say?"  Moreover, He was HER Lord.  It just seems obvious that since He knew Who He was and Whom He came out from that His addressing her as "mother" would have put her on a pedestal of sorts, but the truth is everything she was came from Him.  In addition, going around addressing her as "mother" would not have been fitting for Him as He was her Almighty God, Everlasting Father.

octoberose:
I knew this would lead to a conversation!
 Psalms 51:5 " Lo, in iniquity I have been brought forth, And in sin doth my mother conceive me."  Part of my quandary is this- a baby is still sinful and he has done nothing willfully wrong. Surely Christ died for him too. He will be held accountable too. I don't get the how. But that is correct, right? But Jesus is different because he was not 'conceived in sin. My head hurts with this.  Didn't Ray say that a baby would not be in the elect, because they had not learned or obeyed or had the wisdom of the elect? Something like that.
 So,  Kat, you're saying that since death is brought to us by Adam, sin was introduced because God made us sinful, so what Jesus' mortal body 'inherited" was that he lived in a body and became a man.
 I can wrap my head around that.
  In reference to Virginia's comment - as I understand it, calling a woman Gune' - the greek for woman- could be a sign of respect or just how a woman was addressed. Kind of depended on the context. But Jesus did do as his mother wanted when he turned the water into wine even though it was not 'his plan'.  So, that was respectful. And then Jesus 'gave' Mary to John as a mother , gave John to Mary as a son. So some of his last breaths were in caring for  her.
 Gina, I love your passion. I love, love the story of Jesus as a 12 year old and his parents frantically searching for him and he's 'doing his Father's business". What I believe God led me to about that was that Mary and Joseph were so shocked by his answer because They Had Never Told Him Who He Was. How do you mention that to a child that his true father is the Creator of the Universe? They had not told him, But The Holy Spirit did. I'm always amused by people who think that Mary forgot who Jesus was and didn't understand what he was saying. I am the mother of three regular kids and I can tell you the when and where and how I had them. Mary cherished all these things in her heart and didn't forget a thing. She had just never told Jesus who He was. I'm sure she knew God would in His time.
 

 

lilitalienboi16:

--- Quote from: octoberose on June 01, 2015, 08:03:18 PM ---I knew this would lead to a conversation!
 Psalms 51:5 " Lo, in iniquity I have been brought forth, And in sin doth my mother conceive me."  Part of my quandary is this- a baby is still sinful and he has done nothing willfully wrong. Surely Christ died for him too. He will be held accountable too. I don't get the how. But that is correct, right? But Jesus is different because he was not 'conceived in sin. My head hurts with this.  Didn't Ray say that a baby would not be in the elect, because they had not learned or obeyed or had the wisdom of the elect? Something like that.
 So,  Kat, you're saying that since death is brought to us by Adam, sin was introduced because God made us sinful, so what Jesus' mortal body 'inherited" was that he lived in a body and became a man.
 I can wrap my head around that.
  In reference to Virginia's comment - as I understand it, calling a woman Gune' - the greek for woman- could be a sign of respect or just how a woman was addressed. Kind of depended on the context. But Jesus did do as his mother wanted when he turned the water into wine even though it was not 'his plan'.  So, that was respectful. And then Jesus 'gave' Mary to John as a mother , gave John to Mary as a son. So some of his last breaths were in caring for  her.
 Gina, I love your passion. I love, love the story of Jesus as a 12 year old and his parents frantically searching for him and he's 'doing his Father's business". What I believe God led me to about that was that Mary and Joseph were so shocked by his answer because They Had Never Told Him Who He Was. How do you mention that to a child that his true father is the Creator of the Universe? They had not told him, But The Holy Spirit did. I'm always amused by people who think that Mary forgot who Jesus was and didn't understand what he was saying. I am the mother of three regular kids and I can tell you the when and where and how I had them. Mary cherished all these things in her heart and didn't forget a thing. She had just never told Jesus who He was. I'm sure she knew God would in His time.

--- End quote ---

Hi Rose,

Psalm 51 is a reference to the mother's sins. The baby is not sinful and the baby is not sin. Sin is the transgression of God's spiritual law.

God didn't make us sinful. He made us spiritually weak. He subjected us to moral futility by reason of our weak hearts. We are marred in the hand's of the potter and then made a second time in a fashion that is pleasing to Him. God doesn't make us sin and God tempts no man. We volunteer to sin due to our weak condition (the beast/carnal mind/the antiChrist) and the influences of satan. It takes God's spirit to do good. Christ was full of the spirit and grace so He didn't and could not sin. Sin was the inevitable result of man's weak condition and inibility to obery God's higher spiritual laws. This by the wisdom of God.

A baby will not be an elect because a baby still has to undergo that process of being made new. Flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom. Death and then judgement. Die now voluntarily and be baptized into Christ's death so that you can be in the likeness of His resurrection or be thrown into the fire and die in the next age. Either way, you will be conformed into the image of the Son.

At the time of Jesus' birth, Mary was a carnal woman. So Jesus was concieved in Marry's sin but that doesn't make Him sinful or sin. We sin until the day we die so every child will be concieved 'in sin,' but if the spirit of God is in us then sin won't REIGN in our bodies. Jesus didn't sin, He had no sin in Him, and He didn't have a carnal mind. He put on this weak vessel that is the human body so that He could be a faithful high priest who is tempted in every point and so that He could be killed. He became our passover lamb. Ray pointed out that the lamb at passover didn't die because it was sin or because it sinned but because is took the place of those who did sin because there is no remissions of sin without the shedding of blood.

The reason you need blood is because a will is not binding until the person who writes it is dead. So Jesus Christ sealed the new covenent, The will of God, with His death. With His blood. So 'The Will' ('The New Covenent') is now in effect.

God bless,
Alex

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