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Did Jesus cease to be God when he became incarnate?
Gina:
And I had another thought: After Jesus was resurrected, He told Mary Magdelene "Stop clinging to me for I have not yet ascended to my Father."
And as long as she did that, He couldn't go away and if He couldn't go away, the Holy Spirit (Comforter) couldn't come. So maybe we are sort of doing the same thing in a sense. By continuing to cling to the "physical body of Christ" with what we know of our five senses, do we somehow shortchange ourselves of the Comforter? I don't know, maybe. I mean, I still believe Christ is coming back for us. But until then, apparently we have to go through a major growth period where our spiritual senses are exercised and sharpened so that we learn to trust God in faith, rather than by what we can see. I'm sure we have a lot to learn. But we'll get there. God will get us there.
What I noticed about Ray was that he really, I mean REALLY believed God. Obviously, God got him to that place of belief, and trust, and I believe God will get us there too. He always said, "There it is! Now why don't they believe it?"
Notice what he didn't say. He didn't say, Now, there it is! Why won't they UNDERSTAND it?
Abraham understood God and it was credited to him as righteousness? No, he *believed* God and it was credited to him as righteousness. I guess belief comes before understanding. Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not to your own understanding... which doesn't mean you'll never,ever understand. It just means you won't understand according to YOUR own understanding. For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face, now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.
And that's a rap. :) I'm tired but I still have to literally drag myself to bed because otherwise, I would be here all night writing, But I have faith that the forum will still be here in the moanin'. :P
Extol:
--- Quote from: virginiabm on June 02, 2015, 10:48:21 PM ---Me too Gina. I am so hungry for the word that I could sit here all day talking to like minded people, but there are none around here. I love when I come to the forum and some are have a conversation about what we are learning, or learning something new.
I do have another question about the New Testament being written in Greek. Did Jesus speak mostly Greek? I know He knew all languages, and understood all, but I was going to a sacred name church at one time and they convinced me that Yahshua was Jesus' real name. My husband wasn't into the name at that time, but he is now and I am not. I don't want to get to heavy in this and I know Ray has went through this at one time, i just want to share with my husband what i am learning about it. He thinks we are still in the old testament, so Jesus would be called yahshua or Yahweh, because joshua took the people to the promised land after Moses' died. Joshua in hebrew is Yahshua, But didn't Christ come in Moses' place, not Joshua's?
with Love, virignia
--- End quote ---
Hi Virginia,
Greek and Latin were the common languages of the Mediterranean world, but Aramaic was the everyday language of Judea, the Roman province where Jesus lived.
virginiabm:
Thank you Extol. Is Aramaic close to the Hebrew lauguage? I know there were other people call Jesus, so the human name doesn't matter, but HIS character does, and we have to have HIS character before we can enter into the Kingdom Of God. Jesus's name is above all other names, which I believe that is HIS character, HIS way of life, HIM only doing what HIS Father tells HIM to do and say.
What name would they have used to address Jesus in the Aramaic language? This question is only for me to understand language use, because as I said name means character and character means a way of living your life in a good or bad way. As we know Jesus Lived THE FATHERS character and HE alone is only GOOD.
I have been coming to this forum for over five years and I haven't posted but a few times, I must be getting BOLD in my old age. lol
with love, virginia
lilitalienboi16:
--- Quote from: virginiabm on June 03, 2015, 08:31:37 AM ---Thank you Extol. Is Aramaic close to the Hebrew lauguage? I know there were other people call Jesus, so the human name doesn't matter, but HIS character does, and we have to have HIS character before we can enter into the Kingdom Of God. Jesus's name is above all other names, which I believe that is HIS character, HIS way of life, HIM only doing what HIS Father tells HIM to do and say.
What name would they have used to address Jesus in the Aramaic language? This question is only for me to understand language use, because as I said name means character and character means a way of living your life in a good or bad way. As we know Jesus Lived THE FATHERS character and HE alone is only GOOD.
I have been coming to this forum for over five years and I haven't posted but a few times, I must be getting BOLD in my old age. lol
with love, virginia
--- End quote ---
They used the name Jesus. That is the name they used. Jesus is the name of the Father and Jesus is the name of the Son.
Read this article ray wrote below as it addresses your question.
--------------------------------------------- http://bible-truths.com/enigmaOfGod.htm
The English Name Jesus is an excellent transliteration of the Hebrew name Yeshua which means YAH is SALVATION By: Richard Rives, http://www.toolong.com/pages/events.htm Author of: "TOO LONG IN THE SUN"
Transliterating a name from one language to another is NOT changing the name. It is the SAME name, but spelled and pronounced to suit the language into which it is being translated. Now how hard is that? Yet wanna-be scholars would have us think that this is utter corruption, fabrication, counterfeiting, and blasphemous. Their criticism of transliteration is unfounded. If that were true, then it would be counterfeiting and corruption to translate anything into ANY language. Here is how simple this is: The English spelling of Yeshua is "Joshua." However, when translated from Hebrew into the Greek language, the name Yeshua becomes Iēsous, and the English spelling for Iēsous is "Jesus."
If names were only translated from one language to another, it would even be offensive in some cases, silly or awkward in others. For example the name Natalie means "born on Christmas day." So suppose translating that name from one language to another we translated the meaning of the word, rather than the sound of the name. A mother might then say: "This is my daughter Born on Christmas Day." Someone would probably remark: 'Oh how nice, your daughter was born on Christmas day." The mother would have to respond: "No, she was born on September 23, her Name is "born on Christmas day"-that is her NAME."
Pretty silly. Natalie is a beautiful name and in translating it from one language to another we would want to transliterate it and retain if possible its beautiful sound.
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JESUS! Thats it. Its Jesus. The way you hear it now in your ears is as close to how you would have heard it in Aremaic, greek, hebrew, whatever, as possible! That is the name of God!
God bless,
Alex
Kat:
--- Quote from: octoberose on June 02, 2015, 10:21:50 PM --- So, going along a little more with the original intent of this thread- when Jesus became a man was he changed from what he was to who he is now? Stephen saw him as he lay dying. I don't understand that to be a vision but a sighting- and he was Jesus- changed as we know after the resurrection but still Jesus. Will he have scars on his hands and feet when we see him? Is he unalterably changed after dying for our sins and raising from the dead?
I know these seem simple, or maybe very complex, but it's where I am and you all know me well enough to know that I'd rather ask and seem foolish than not ask at all.
--- End quote ---
Hi octoberose,
I believe that the Son has always had the form of a man... that was a purpose for Him, to have an image of a man (like us), right from when the Father brought Him forth. This is how Ezekiel described the image of the OT God that he saw out of a whirlwind.
Eze 1:26 And above the firmament over their heads was the likeness of a throne, in appearance like a sapphire stone; on the likeness of the throne was a likeness with the appearance of a man high above it.
v. 27 Also from the appearance of His waist and upward I saw, as it were, the color of amber with the appearance of fire all around within it; and from the appearance of His waist and downward I saw, as it were, the appearance of fire with brightness all around.
v. 28 Like the appearance of a rainbow in a cloud on a rainy day, so was the appearance of the brightness all around it. This was the appearance of the likeness of the glory of the LORD. So when I saw it, I fell on my face, and I heard a voice of One speaking.
In His glory the Son appears so magnificent that it's hard to comprehend, though in the form of a man. Yes the Son created all of the universe and was there to witnessed the transformation of the earth and all it's creatures from the very beginning... But that was always from His glorious state of being on high.
We know that He appeared to Abraham in a fleshly form, as a man and ate with him (Gen 18), so He had known something of the flesh. But when the Son was born into this world He had to experience all of this life from being a helpless babe to the suffering of crucifixion. The comprehension that He received from that experience would have given Him much better understanding of what we go through and must have been needed for Him to become "perfected"... not that He was not already perfect, but the experience gave Him something more, completed Him.
Luke 13:32 And He said to them, "Go, tell that fox, 'Behold, I cast out demons and perform cures today and tomorrow, and the third day I shall be perfected.'
Perfected G5048
teleioō - to complete, that is, (literally) accomplish, or (figuratively) consummate (in character): - consecrate, finish, fulfil, (make) perfect.
Heb 4:14 Therefore, since we have a great High Priest who has gone to heaven, Jesus the Son of God, let us live our lives consistent with our confession of faith.
v. 15 For we do not have a High Priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses. Instead, we have One who in every respect has been tempted as we are, yet He never sinned. (ISV)
The crucifixion was no easy pill to swallow, not even for Christ, by it was part of His learning experience and obedience even to the death.
Heb 5:7 who, in the days of His flesh, when He had offered up prayers and supplications, with vehement cries and tears to Him who was able to save Him from death, and was heard because of His godly fear,
v. 8 though He was a Son, yet He learned obedience by the things which He suffered.
v. 9 And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him,
After Christ was resurrected He appeared in the flesh to 'many' of His own followers for 40 days as a witness of His resurrection and they recognized Him and knew it was Him and yes He still had the marks of the crucifixion on His body. But He had obviously regained His glory, because He appeared to some in a different form, a different look for His purpose needed.
Mar 16:12 After that, He appeared in another form to two of them as they walked and went into the country.
Remember even as the OT God He could come into the flesh and appear as a man, so when He regained His power after resurrection, He could again appear any way He chose to. So He stayed with them long enough to absolutely verify that He had indeed risen from the dead and saying, "All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth" (Mat 28:18). Then He ascended back to the heavenly throne and there I believe He took on the majestic appearance that Ezekiel saw... that must have been what Stephen saw just before he died. Stephen was brought before the council and in a long speech fiercely accused the high priest and all the Jews and they became enraged and attacked and killed him. I would think Christ appeared to him in His glory to strength this righteous man 'that He personally knew' in the last mins of his life.
Acts 7:54 When they heard these things they were cut to the heart, and they gnashed at him with their teeth.
v. 55 But he, being full of the Holy Spirit, gazed into heaven and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at the right hand of God,
v. 56 and said, "Look! I see the heavens opened and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God!"
v. 57 Then they cried out with a loud voice, stopped their ears, and ran at him with one accord;
v. 58 and they cast him out of the city and stoned him. And the witnesses laid down their clothes at the feet of a young man named Saul.
v. 59 And they stoned Stephen as he was calling on God and saying, "Lord Jesus, receive my spirit."
v. 60 Then he knelt down and cried out with a loud voice, "Lord, do not charge them with this sin." And when he had said this, he fell asleep.
Hope this is helpful.
mercy, peace and love
Kat
Hi virginia, I don't think it's so much about the word we use to address Him, that's just a physical means we use in oral language. He looks much more to our enter desire of regeneracy, respect and obedience that we have for Him, because He certainly knows what we think of Him in our heart.
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