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[rick]

Joh 2:19  Jesus answered, "Destroy this temple and I will build it again in three days."


Joh 12:49  That is because what I taught was not from myself. The Father who sent me told me what to say and what to teach.


So, I know when Christ died He was actually dead, and we know that the dead have no perception, so Christ said He would raise this temple in three days, how is that possible ?

In Joh 12: 49 we see that it Was the Father who gave Christ His words, what to say and what to teach.


 Joh 14:8  Philip said to him, "Lord, show us the Father. That is all we need."

Joh 14:9  Jesus answered, "Philip, I have been with you for a long time. So you should know me. Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father too. So why do you say, 'Show us the Father'?

I need to go back to Ray’s 207 conference on who and what is Jesus and who is His Father again but what I’m wondering now is, is it the Father we know and not Jesus ? What I mean is it seems that I know the name of Jesus but everything Jesus did was the Father doing it all.


It must be as Christ said, to know Christ is to know the Father as if they are one in the same. I guess it’s back to the drawing board for me, again.     

[lilitalienboi16]

Joh 2:19  Jesus answered, "Destroy this temple and I will build it again in three days."


Joh 12:49  That is because what I taught was not from myself. The Father who sent me told me what to say and what to teach.


So, I know when Christ died He was actually dead, and we know that the dead have no perception, so Christ said He would raise this temple in three days, how is that possible ?

In Joh 12: 49 we see that it Was the Father who gave Christ His words, what to say and what to teach.


 Joh 14:8  Philip said to him, "Lord, show us the Father. That is all we need."

Joh 14:9  Jesus answered, "Philip, I have been with you for a long time. So you should know me. Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father too. So why do you say, 'Show us the Father'?

I need to go back to Ray’s 207 conference on who and what is Jesus and who is His Father again but what I’m wondering now is, is it the Father we know and not Jesus ? What I mean is it seems that I know the name of Jesus but everything Jesus did was the Father doing it all.


It must be as Christ said, to know Christ is to know the Father as if they are one in the same. I guess it’s back to the drawing board for me, again. 

Hi Rick,

It was definitely God the Father that raised up Christ. Peter affirms this several times as well as Paul.

Acts 2:32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.

Acts 5:29-31
29 Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men.
30 The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a tree.
31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.

Galatians 1:1 Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead;)

Christ said the words He spoke were not of Himself but of His Father. It appears we are seeing the Father speak through Christ in the first person when He says that "I will build it up again in three days."

John 12:49 For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.

John 14:24 24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.

John 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

Christ and the Father are one but they are not the SAME. You know much more than Jesus' name. Everything Jesus did was of His own desire. He wanted to do everything He did, no one forced Him to. He just happens to be the expressed stamped image of His Father.

God bless,
Alex

[John from Kentucky]

I know the answer, but I cannot tell you because teaching is not allowed on the Forum.

If God will give you the understanding, Ray explains it at the end of his creed, which I have attached.
It is Ray's 2nd statement, which is the most profound and ties in to John 1:1.  (You must also be educated enough to know what an autobiography is.)

http://bible-truths.com/Creed.htm


Further keys are found in Col 1:15 to the end and 1Cor 8:6.  However, true understanding can only come from God.  You have to be ready to spiritually rock and roll.  This most profound understanding is not for the young.  (little hint: The Scriptures teach there is only One God.  )

But most do not understand.  Paul said in 1Cor 8:7 that not many know this, speaking to the Church about the nature of God.  Two thousand years later, most in the true Church still do not get it.

I am beginning to see that it will be Jesus Himself Who will explain this most profound truth to the Elect in the age to come.

[rick]

Joh 2:19  Jesus answered, "Destroy this temple and I will build it again in three days."


Joh 12:49  That is because what I taught was not from myself. The Father who sent me told me what to say and what to teach.


So, I know when Christ died He was actually dead, and we know that the dead have no perception, so Christ said He would raise this temple in three days, how is that possible ?

In Joh 12: 49 we see that it Was the Father who gave Christ His words, what to say and what to teach.


 Joh 14:8  Philip said to him, "Lord, show us the Father. That is all we need."

Joh 14:9  Jesus answered, "Philip, I have been with you for a long time. So you should know me. Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father too. So why do you say, 'Show us the Father'?

I need to go back to Ray’s 207 conference on who and what is Jesus and who is His Father again but what I’m wondering now is, is it the Father we know and not Jesus ? What I mean is it seems that I know the name of Jesus but everything Jesus did was the Father doing it all.


It must be as Christ said, to know Christ is to know the Father as if they are one in the same. I guess it’s back to the drawing board for me, again. 

Hi Rick,

It was definitely God the Father that raised up Christ. Peter affirms this several times as well as Paul.

Acts 2:32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.

Hi Alex,

That’s my point, God raised Jesus from the grave, it was God the Father who said through Jesus destroy this temple and I will raise it up in three days.

Acts 2:32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.

Jesus could not of resurrected Himself being dead but God the Father could indeed raise Jesus having life in Himself to do so but it was Jesus who said He Himself would raise this temple in three days referring to His self.

Jesus said it and I’m not going to go anywhere else with that just out of a healthy fear of God . I’m not sure how to reconcile Jesus stating He was going to raise Himself and God the Father actually raising Christ or if I am to reconcile it I would conclude Jesus and God the Father are one in the same with the exception of perhaps having different personality but the word of God is clear in that there is but only one God.

So if there is only one God and Jesus said destroy this temple and in three days I will raise it and we know Jesus was raised from the dead and God the Father raised Christ then one would conclude Jesus is the Father and the Father is Jesus and so that is how I see Jesus raising Himself as He said He would.

[rick]

It is Ray's 2nd statement, which is the most profound and ties in to John 1:1.  (You must also be educated enough to know what an autobiography is.)

Hi John,

Ray’s wording here are very profound

I Believe that the Holy Scriptures are God's Authorized Biography, and

I Believe that the Lord Jesus Christ is God's Authorized Autobiography

 

[Mike Gagne]

Hi John, your quote, (You must also be educated enough to know what an autobiography is.) End of quote.

lol There seems to be a lot of educated people here in this forum, makes me wonder?

1Co 1:26  For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:
1Co 1:27  But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;
1Co 1:28  And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought
things that are:
1Co 1:29  That no flesh should glory in his presence.

When God whats you to know something then he will open your eyes to it and I don't see anywhere in His word where it says you must be educated. LRays education did not open his eyes to the truth, God did and I am sure LRay would have said the same thing.

[lilitalienboi16]

Joh 2:19  Jesus answered, "Destroy this temple and I will build it again in three days."


Joh 12:49  That is because what I taught was not from myself. The Father who sent me told me what to say and what to teach.


So, I know when Christ died He was actually dead, and we know that the dead have no perception, so Christ said He would raise this temple in three days, how is that possible ?

In Joh 12: 49 we see that it Was the Father who gave Christ His words, what to say and what to teach.


 Joh 14:8  Philip said to him, "Lord, show us the Father. That is all we need."

Joh 14:9  Jesus answered, "Philip, I have been with you for a long time. So you should know me. Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father too. So why do you say, 'Show us the Father'?

I need to go back to Ray’s 207 conference on who and what is Jesus and who is His Father again but what I’m wondering now is, is it the Father we know and not Jesus ? What I mean is it seems that I know the name of Jesus but everything Jesus did was the Father doing it all.


It must be as Christ said, to know Christ is to know the Father as if they are one in the same. I guess it’s back to the drawing board for me, again. 

Hi Rick,

It was definitely God the Father that raised up Christ. Peter affirms this several times as well as Paul.

Acts 2:32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.

Hi Alex,

That’s my point, God raised Jesus from the grave, it was God the Father who said through Jesus destroy this temple and I will raise it up in three days.

Acts 2:32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.

Jesus could not of resurrected Himself being dead but God the Father could indeed raise Jesus having life in Himself to do so but it was Jesus who said He Himself would raise this temple in three days referring to His self.

Jesus said it and I’m not going to go anywhere else with that just out of a healthy fear of God . I’m not sure how to reconcile Jesus stating He was going to raise Himself and God the Father actually raising Christ or if I am to reconcile it I would conclude Jesus and God the Father are one in the same with the exception of perhaps having different personality but the word of God is clear in that there is but only one God.

So if there is only one God and Jesus said destroy this temple and in three days I will raise it and we know Jesus was raised from the dead and God the Father raised Christ then one would conclude Jesus is the Father and the Father is Jesus and so that is how I see Jesus raising Himself as He said He would.

Hi Rick,

I don't think I agree with you and here is why.

Jesus and God the Father are not the same though. Jesus is a being while God the Father is not. Jesus has a beginning, while God the Father does not. Jesus has a God while God the Father does not. Jesus said plainly that the Father is greater than He. Jesus is our brother, God the Father is our Father. God the Father dwells in a light which no man can approach, Jesus does not. God the Father is invisible spirit while Jesus is a visible Image of His Father. He has the likeness and form of a Man while God the Father does not. Everything proceeds out of the Father and through Christ. Everything is of the Father and by Christ.

I don't believe they have different personalities though. Jesus expressed everything His Father is but His Father is more than that too. The heavens of the Heavens cannot contain Him.

There is only one God. I agree with that completely.

God bless,
Alex

[Kat]

Hi Rick,

1Cor 8:6  yet for us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we for Him; and one Lord(G2962) Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and through whom we live.

Everything, all power and glory, everything goes back to the Father and comes from Him, BUT in this creation all and everything is being done "through" Jesus Christ. 

Lord G2962 - kurios - From κῦρος kuros (supremacy); supreme in authority, that is, (as noun) controller; by implication Mr. (as a respectful title): - God, Lord, master, Sir.

We will only ever know anything of the Father by what we see/hear/understand by Jesus Christ, He is the image of the Father (Col 1:15)... that is how we know the Father, through Christ and why He said, "He who has seen Me has seen the Father" (John 14:9).

How could Jesus say "Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up." ? Well His spirit had gone to the Father at His death and Jesus was certainly unconscious in the tomb.

Luke 23:46  Then Jesus, calling out with a loud voice, said, "Father, into Your hands I commit My spirit!" And having said this He breathed His last.

It was the Father who returned the spirit and life to Christ, which many Scripture point out. So it is a curious comment that Christ made "I will raise it up," maybe just a play on words that makes room for all the deception concerning Christ?

mercy, peace and love
Kat

[Gina]

Joh 2:19  Jesus answered, "Destroy this temple and I will build it again in three days."


Joh 12:49  That is because what I taught was not from myself. The Father who sent me told me what to say and what to teach.


So, I know when Christ died He was actually dead, and we know that the dead have no perception, so Christ said He would raise this temple in three days, how is that possible ?

In Joh 12: 49 we see that it Was the Father who gave Christ His words, what to say and what to teach.


 Joh 14:8  Philip said to him, "Lord, show us the Father. That is all we need."

Joh 14:9  Jesus answered, "Philip, I have been with you for a long time. So you should know me. Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father too. So why do you say, 'Show us the Father'?

I need to go back to Ray’s 207 conference on who and what is Jesus and who is His Father again but what I’m wondering now is, is it the Father we know and not Jesus ? What I mean is it seems that I know the name of Jesus but everything Jesus did was the Father doing it all.


It must be as Christ said, to know Christ is to know the Father as if they are one in the same. I guess it’s back to the drawing board for me, again. 

Hi Rick,

It was definitely God the Father that raised up Christ. Peter affirms this several times as well as Paul.

Acts 2:32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.

Hi Alex,

That’s my point, God raised Jesus from the grave, it was God the Father who said through Jesus destroy this temple and I will raise it up in three days.

Acts 2:32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.

Jesus could not of resurrected Himself being dead but God the Father could indeed raise Jesus having life in Himself to do so but it was Jesus who said He Himself would raise this temple in three days referring to His self.

Jesus said it and I’m not going to go anywhere else with that just out of a healthy fear of God . I’m not sure how to reconcile Jesus stating He was going to raise Himself and God the Father actually raising Christ or if I am to reconcile it I would conclude Jesus and God the Father are one in the same with the exception of perhaps having different personality but the word of God is clear in that there is but only one God.

So if there is only one God and Jesus said destroy this temple and in three days I will raise it and we know Jesus was raised from the dead and God the Father raised Christ then one would conclude Jesus is the Father and the Father is Jesus and so that is how I see Jesus raising Himself as He said He would.

Rick,

Jesus is not his own Father. 

Jesus Christ said:

17 "For this reason the Father loves Me, because I lay down My life so that I may take it again.

18 "No one has taken it away from Me, but I lay it down on My own initiative. I have AUTHORITY to lay it down, and I have AUTHORITY TO TAKE IT UP AGAIN.  This commandment I received from My Father."

Having the authority to take His life up again does not mean that He put the power of life back into His dead body.

He said to those he was talking to:  Destroy this temple and I will raise (take) it up again on the third day. 

Where in that statement of Jesus' do you see that Jesus said He would PUT THE POWER BACK INTO HIS OWN DEAD BODY?  Where?Because I have looked and it's NOT IN THERE. 

You're imagining and speculating about things and we've all done it, but try pay attention to the words now.

Did Jesus destroy Himself, Rick?  Is that what He said He would do? 

This is what He said:  I have the authority to lay down My life.  That does not mean:  I WILL DESTROY MY OWN TEMPLE.

Why would He do such a thing after He drove out those DESTROYING THE TEMPLE?

Jesus said to them:  YOU can destroy this temple but I'm going to raise it up on the third day. 

Why do you interpret that to mean that He would impart life back into His own dead body, as IF HE COULD DO THAT WHEN HE WAS DEAD?

What happened after He was murdered?  He DIED!  He had no power at all.  Did He have AUTHORITY?  Sure!  Did He have the ABILITY to UTILIZE THAT AUTHORITY WHEN HE WAS DEAD?  NO!  He had to have POWER to USE it.  Where did He get the power from?  His FATHER!  His Father imparted life back into Jesus' DEAD BODY.

What happened then?  He then had the ABILITY to USE the AUTHORITY He always had to then raise His now LIVE body UP from the grave.

The power to do everything He did came directly from His Father. 

However, when He died, He was not able to UTILIZE the power. 

He ALWAYS had the authority to raise His body up from the grave but in order to raise it, He had to have the POWER to raise it.  Where did the power come from?  His Father!

Jesus could not have put life back into His own dead body.  Give me a break.   

He RAISED HIS NOW LIFE-FILLED BODY UP FROM THE GRAVE!
In that sense, Yes, He took His life up again!  Why is that so hard to believe? 

He utilized the LIFE that was given back to Him by His FATHER and He put His two feet on the ground and rose His body UP from the tomb.

it's not hard to understand.

And it's, could not HAVE, not could not "of."  It sounds like "of" phonetically, but trust me, the word is "have."  Also, it's Himself, not "His self."

Now, is that clear or do you still have questions?  If you say you don't understand, I will be astounded.

[santgem]

I know the answer, but I cannot tell you because teaching is not allowed on the Forum.

If God will give you the understanding, Ray explains it at the end of his creed, which I have attached.
It is Ray's 2nd statement, which is the most profound and ties in to John 1:1.  (You must also be educated enough to know what an autobiography is.)

http://bible-truths.com/Creed.htm


Further keys are found in Col 1:15 to the end and 1Cor 8:6.  However, true understanding can only come from God.  You have to be ready to spiritually rock and roll.  This most profound understanding is not for the young.  (little hint: The Scriptures teach there is only One God.  )

But most do not understand.  Paul said in 1Cor 8:7 that not many know this, speaking to the Church about the nature of God.  Two thousand years later, most in the true Church still do not get it.

I am beginning to see that it will be Jesus Himself Who will explain this most profound truth to the Elect in the age to come.

Greetings JFK,

Indeed it is very clear.......




Please let me add verses.


When Jesus had a God.


Psalm 22. I was thrust into your arms at my birth. You have been my God from the moment I was born.

Jer 32:27 Behold, I am the LORD, the God of all flesh: is there anything too hard for me?

Gal 4:4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,

[lilitalienboi16]

I know the answer, but I cannot tell you because teaching is not allowed on the Forum.

If God will give you the understanding, Ray explains it at the end of his creed, which I have attached.
It is Ray's 2nd statement, which is the most profound and ties in to John 1:1.  (You must also be educated enough to know what an autobiography is.)

http://bible-truths.com/Creed.htm


Further keys are found in Col 1:15 to the end and 1Cor 8:6.  However, true understanding can only come from God.  You have to be ready to spiritually rock and roll.  This most profound understanding is not for the young.  (little hint: The Scriptures teach there is only One God.  )

But most do not understand.  Paul said in 1Cor 8:7 that not many know this, speaking to the Church about the nature of God.  Two thousand years later, most in the true Church still do not get it.

I am beginning to see that it will be Jesus Himself Who will explain this most profound truth to the Elect in the age to come.

Greetings JFK,

Indeed it is very clear.......




Please let me add verses.


When Jesus had a God.


Psalm 22. I was thrust into your arms at my birth. You have been my God from the moment I was born.

Jer 32:27 Behold, I am the LORD, the God of all flesh: is there anything too hard for me?

Gal 4:4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,

Hi Santa,

After Jesus was raised from the dead, with a spiritual body, He still had a God.

John 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

The apostles in their writtings continue to refer to God the Father as the God of Jesus Christ long after Christ ascended and was seated at the right hand of power.

Here are two such examples:

Acts 3:26 Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities

Ephesians 1:17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:

So I'm not sure if you're trying to say Jesus no longer has a God after He resurrected? If so, I just can't see that being the case based on these and other witnesses in scripture.

God bless,
Alex

[santgem]

I know the answer, but I cannot tell you because teaching is not allowed on the Forum.

If God will give you the understanding, Ray explains it at the end of his creed, which I have attached.
It is Ray's 2nd statement, which is the most profound and ties in to John 1:1.  (You must also be educated enough to know what an autobiography is.)

http://bible-truths.com/Creed.htm


Further keys are found in Col 1:15 to the end and 1Cor 8:6.  However, true understanding can only come from God.  You have to be ready to spiritually rock and roll.  This most profound understanding is not for the young.  (little hint: The Scriptures teach there is only One God.  )

But most do not understand.  Paul said in 1Cor 8:7 that not many know this, speaking to the Church about the nature of God.  Two thousand years later, most in the true Church still do not get it.

I am beginning to see that it will be Jesus Himself Who will explain this most profound truth to the Elect in the age to come.

Greetings JFK,

Indeed it is very clear.......




Please let me add verses.


When Jesus had a God.


Psalm 22. I was thrust into your arms at my birth. You have been my God from the moment I was born.

Jer 32:27 Behold, I am the LORD, the God of all flesh: is there anything too hard for me?

Gal 4:4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,

Hi Santa,

After Jesus was raised from the dead, with a spiritual body, He still had a God.

John 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

The apostles in their writtings continue to refer to God the Father as the God of Jesus Christ long after Christ ascended and was seated at the right hand of power.

Here are two such examples:

Acts 3:26 Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities

Ephesians 1:17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:

So I'm not sure if you're trying to say Jesus no longer has a God after He resurrected? If so, I just can't see that being the case based on these and other witnesses in scripture.

God bless,
Alex

Hello Alex,
Greetings!


Jesus will be Man and God Forever......Scriptures were there.

When Jesus was still The "I Am" in the Old Testament, nowhere you can find in the Scriptures that he has a God.
He then had a God  at that time when........see (Psalm 22, Jer 32:27)

again, after that you can conclude to what i said that.......Jesus will be Man and God forever.

[lilitalienboi16]

I know the answer, but I cannot tell you because teaching is not allowed on the Forum.

If God will give you the understanding, Ray explains it at the end of his creed, which I have attached.
It is Ray's 2nd statement, which is the most profound and ties in to John 1:1.  (You must also be educated enough to know what an autobiography is.)

http://bible-truths.com/Creed.htm


Further keys are found in Col 1:15 to the end and 1Cor 8:6.  However, true understanding can only come from God.  You have to be ready to spiritually rock and roll.  This most profound understanding is not for the young.  (little hint: The Scriptures teach there is only One God.  )

But most do not understand.  Paul said in 1Cor 8:7 that not many know this, speaking to the Church about the nature of God.  Two thousand years later, most in the true Church still do not get it.

I am beginning to see that it will be Jesus Himself Who will explain this most profound truth to the Elect in the age to come.

Greetings JFK,

Indeed it is very clear.......




Please let me add verses.


When Jesus had a God.


Psalm 22. I was thrust into your arms at my birth. You have been my God from the moment I was born.

Jer 32:27 Behold, I am the LORD, the God of all flesh: is there anything too hard for me?

Gal 4:4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,

Hi Santa,

After Jesus was raised from the dead, with a spiritual body, He still had a God.

John 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

The apostles in their writtings continue to refer to God the Father as the God of Jesus Christ long after Christ ascended and was seated at the right hand of power.

Here are two such examples:

Acts 3:26 Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities

Ephesians 1:17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:

So I'm not sure if you're trying to say Jesus no longer has a God after He resurrected? If so, I just can't see that being the case based on these and other witnesses in scripture.

God bless,
Alex

Hello Alex,
Greetings!


Jesus will be Man and God Forever......Scriptures were there.

When Jesus was still The "I Am" in the Old Testament, nowhere you can find in the Scriptures that he has a God.
He then had a God  at that time when........see (Psalm 22, Jer 32:27)

again, after that you can conclude to what i said that.......Jesus will be Man and God forever.

Hi SantGem,

I have an issue with this perspective of yours. You're essentially asking me to throw out all the new testatement scriptures to make this perspective work. The apostles were well aware of the old testatement scriptures and quoted from them frequently but despite this still maintained that Jesus Christ has a God.

Furthermore, with that knowledge we have things such as these in which you can find the God of the Old testatement having a God.

Psalm 45:5-7
5 Thine arrows are sharp in the heart of the king's enemies; whereby the people fall under thee.
6 Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: the sceptre of thy kingdom is a right sceptre.
7 Thou lovest righteousness, and hatest wickedness: therefore God, thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.

Here is how the Hebrews author interprets it:

Hebrews 1:1-2
1 God [THE FATHER], who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

Hebrews 1:6-10
6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.
7 And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.
8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.

Its there in both the old and the new testatement.

God Bless,
Alex

[santgem]

I know the answer, but I cannot tell you because teaching is not allowed on the Forum.

If God will give you the understanding, Ray explains it at the end of his creed, which I have attached.
It is Ray's 2nd statement, which is the most profound and ties in to John 1:1.  (You must also be educated enough to know what an autobiography is.)

http://bible-truths.com/Creed.htm


Further keys are found in Col 1:15 to the end and 1Cor 8:6.  However, true understanding can only come from God.  You have to be ready to spiritually rock and roll.  This most profound understanding is not for the young.  (little hint: The Scriptures teach there is only One God.  )

But most do not understand.  Paul said in 1Cor 8:7 that not many know this, speaking to the Church about the nature of God.  Two thousand years later, most in the true Church still do not get it.

I am beginning to see that it will be Jesus Himself Who will explain this most profound truth to the Elect in the age to come.

Greetings JFK,

Indeed it is very clear.......




Please let me add verses.


When Jesus had a God.


Psalm 22. I was thrust into your arms at my birth. You have been my God from the moment I was born.

Jer 32:27 Behold, I am the LORD, the God of all flesh: is there anything too hard for me?

Gal 4:4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,

Hi Santa,

After Jesus was raised from the dead, with a spiritual body, He still had a God.

John 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

The apostles in their writtings continue to refer to God the Father as the God of Jesus Christ long after Christ ascended and was seated at the right hand of power.

Here are two such examples:

Acts 3:26 Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities

Ephesians 1:17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:

So I'm not sure if you're trying to say Jesus no longer has a God after He resurrected? If so, I just can't see that being the case based on these and other witnesses in scripture.

God bless,
Alex

Hello Alex,
Greetings!


Jesus will be Man and God Forever......Scriptures were there.

When Jesus was still The "I Am" in the Old Testament, nowhere you can find in the Scriptures that he has a God.
He then had a God  at that time when........see (Psalm 22, Jer 32:27)

again, after that you can conclude to what i said that.......Jesus will be Man and God forever.

Hi SantGem,

I have an issue with this perspective of yours. You're essentially asking me to throw out all the new testatement scriptures to make this perspective work. The apostles were well aware of the old testatement scriptures and quoted from them frequently but despite this still maintained that Jesus Christ has a God.

Furthermore, with that knowledge we have things such as these in which you can find the God of the Old testatement having a God.

Psalm 45:5-7
5 Thine arrows are sharp in the heart of the king's enemies; whereby the people fall under thee.
6 Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: the sceptre of thy kingdom is a right sceptre.
7 Thou lovest righteousness, and hatest wickedness: therefore God, thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.

Here is how the Hebrews author interprets it:

Hebrews 1:1-2
1 God [THE FATHER], who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

Hebrews 1:6-10
6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.
7 And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.
8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.

Its there in both the old and the new testatement.

God Bless,
Alex

Hello Alex,
Greetings!

I fully understand your explanation......but;

Look at your verse Psalm 45:5-7, examine it very carefully.
When God tells that to a God,  God perceived that that God is associating with the people.

God did not have a God when It is the only God (Old Testament).

in sundry times, It is God the Father who is YHWH/Jehovah (old testament)
when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world (Jesus in his flesh) New Testament...


God did not tell in the Old Testament that he has God literally or else you will have two Gods, and that is very clear....


now think about this....

When Jesus died his soul died also but his Spirit is alive. Jesus soul died when his body is dead.
God the Father and Jesus have the same Spirit.
Jesus Spirit gives life....Agree or disagree?

[Gina]

Santgem,

I respectfully request you both think about how you're arguing over words and genealogies and using this thread to distract yourselves from something else, whatever that is.  Why don't you go listen to one of Ray's lectures or something useful.

[santgem]

Santgem,

I respectfully request you both think about how you're arguing over words and genealogies and using this thread to distract yourselves from something else, whatever that is.  Why don't you go listen to one of Ray's lectures or something useful.

Hi Gina,

Yes you are right, that is why teaching is not allowed in the forum.
i just answered Alex for clarification.

[lilitalienboi16]

Hi again Santgem,

I think you should take a look once more at Ray's study of who Jesus and the Father are.  Ray points out very clearly that Jesus is Jehova in the old testatement. So I don't agree with you that God the Father is YHWH/Jehovah. Jehova/Elohim is a reference to the Father but that is not the same as Jehova/YHWH.

No one knew the Father existed in the old testatement. Perhaps only a few hints aside from the fact that Elohim expresses a duality--Let US make man in OUR image.

More specifically, ray covers this exact passage of Hebrews and he shows that God the Father spoke to our fathers not because He is "Jehova" but because everything is out of Him and through Jesus Christ, His spokesman/Logos/Word/Very Image.

--------------------------------------------------------------------http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,4472.0.html

One of the most powerful things we have to learn in the Scripture is that no man has ever seen God or heard His voice. You have just got to believe that. It says that over and over, so you got to believe it. If you don’t, well then you will think Jehovah is God the Father and you will have all these crazy things, that aren’t true. It’s a major truth. We have to find out who the God of the Bible is. "No man hath seen God at any time (John 1:18)." Is that clear!

...
...

Jesus Christ is a thing.  He is the Son of God, the very image of Him. Well if He is something, where did He come from? Out of GOD! Where did everything else come from?  Through Christ! Jesus is Jehovah. Jehovah what? Jehovah/Elohim! Who is His Father? His Father, is the Father, Elohim! Fair enough.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I disagree with you completely that you have two God's if the God of the old testatement has a God. By inspiration of God, both Psalm's and Hebrews show this to be true as well as many other new testatement witnesses.

God bless,
Alex

[rick]

Joh 2:19  Jesus answered, "Destroy this temple and I will build it again in three days."


Joh 12:49  That is because what I taught was not from myself. The Father who sent me told me what to say and what to teach.


So, I know when Christ died He was actually dead, and we know that the dead have no perception, so Christ said He would raise this temple in three days, how is that possible ?

In Joh 12: 49 we see that it Was the Father who gave Christ His words, what to say and what to teach.


 Joh 14:8  Philip said to him, "Lord, show us the Father. That is all we need."

Joh 14:9  Jesus answered, "Philip, I have been with you for a long time. So you should know me. Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father too. So why do you say, 'Show us the Father'?

I need to go back to Ray’s 207 conference on who and what is Jesus and who is His Father again but what I’m wondering now is, is it the Father we know and not Jesus ? What I mean is it seems that I know the name of Jesus but everything Jesus did was the Father doing it all.


It must be as Christ said, to know Christ is to know the Father as if they are one in the same. I guess it’s back to the drawing board for me, again. 

Hi Rick,

It was definitely God the Father that raised up Christ. Peter affirms this several times as well as Paul.

Acts 2:32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.

Hi Alex,

That’s my point, God raised Jesus from the grave, it was God the Father who said through Jesus destroy this temple and I will raise it up in three days.

Acts 2:32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.

Jesus could not of resurrected Himself being dead but God the Father could indeed raise Jesus having life in Himself to do so but it was Jesus who said He Himself would raise this temple in three days referring to His self.

Jesus said it and I’m not going to go anywhere else with that just out of a healthy fear of God . I’m not sure how to reconcile Jesus stating He was going to raise Himself and God the Father actually raising Christ or if I am to reconcile it I would conclude Jesus and God the Father are one in the same with the exception of perhaps having different personality but the word of God is clear in that there is but only one God.

So if there is only one God and Jesus said destroy this temple and in three days I will raise it and we know Jesus was raised from the dead and God the Father raised Christ then one would conclude Jesus is the Father and the Father is Jesus and so that is how I see Jesus raising Himself as He said He would.

Hi Rick,

I don't think I agree with you and here is why.

Jesus and God the Father are not the same though. Jesus is a being while God the Father is not. Jesus has a beginning, while God the Father does not. Jesus has a God while God the Father does not.

Hi Alex,

No argument from me, it doesn’t get any clearer than how you stated it. I see it was nothing more than me taking the words of Jesus literally when He said destroy this temple and in three days I will raise it up.

Perhaps it’s a mistranslation for all I know, maybe Jesus never said that, you know Ray had pointed stuff like that out in his writing.

Thanks Alex, much appreciated . 

[rick]

Joh 2:19  Jesus answered, "Destroy this temple and I will build it again in three days."


Joh 12:49  That is because what I taught was not from myself. The Father who sent me told me what to say and what to teach.


So, I know when Christ died He was actually dead, and we know that the dead have no perception, so Christ said He would raise this temple in three days, how is that possible ?

In Joh 12: 49 we see that it Was the Father who gave Christ His words, what to say and what to teach.


 Joh 14:8  Philip said to him, "Lord, show us the Father. That is all we need."

Joh 14:9  Jesus answered, "Philip, I have been with you for a long time. So you should know me. Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father too. So why do you say, 'Show us the Father'?

I need to go back to Ray’s 207 conference on who and what is Jesus and who is His Father again but what I’m wondering now is, is it the Father we know and not Jesus ? What I mean is it seems that I know the name of Jesus but everything Jesus did was the Father doing it all.


It must be as Christ said, to know Christ is to know the Father as if they are one in the same. I guess it’s back to the drawing board for me, again. 

Hi Rick,

It was definitely God the Father that raised up Christ. Peter affirms this several times as well as Paul.

Acts 2:32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.

Hi Alex,

That’s my point, God raised Jesus from the grave, it was God the Father who said through Jesus destroy this temple and I will raise it up in three days.

Acts 2:32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.

Jesus could not of resurrected Himself being dead but God the Father could indeed raise Jesus having life in Himself to do so but it was Jesus who said He Himself would raise this temple in three days referring to His self.

Jesus said it and I’m not going to go anywhere else with that just out of a healthy fear of God . I’m not sure how to reconcile Jesus stating He was going to raise Himself and God the Father actually raising Christ or if I am to reconcile it I would conclude Jesus and God the Father are one in the same with the exception of perhaps having different personality but the word of God is clear in that there is but only one God.

So if there is only one God and Jesus said destroy this temple and in three days I will raise it and we know Jesus was raised from the dead and God the Father raised Christ then one would conclude Jesus is the Father and the Father is Jesus and so that is how I see Jesus raising Himself as He said He would.

And it's, could not HAVE, not could not "of."  It sounds like "of" phonetically, but trust me, the word is "have."  Also, it's Himself, not "His self."

Now, is that clear or do you still have questions?  If you say you don't understand, I will be astounded.

Hi Gina,

Yes Gina, it is clear,  I think I understand and that in itself should still astound you, at least I hope it does.

Also my apologies for the improper English with His self rather than Himself, wish I had you for an English teacher,   probably wouldn’t need spell check either.  Lol

Thank you for your response. 

[Gina]

Joh 2:19  Jesus answered, "Destroy this temple and I will build it again in three days."


Joh 12:49  That is because what I taught was not from myself. The Father who sent me told me what to say and what to teach.


So, I know when Christ died He was actually dead, and we know that the dead have no perception, so Christ said He would raise this temple in three days, how is that possible ?

In Joh 12: 49 we see that it Was the Father who gave Christ His words, what to say and what to teach.


 Joh 14:8  Philip said to him, "Lord, show us the Father. That is all we need."

Joh 14:9  Jesus answered, "Philip, I have been with you for a long time. So you should know me. Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father too. So why do you say, 'Show us the Father'?

I need to go back to Ray’s 207 conference on who and what is Jesus and who is His Father again but what I’m wondering now is, is it the Father we know and not Jesus ? What I mean is it seems that I know the name of Jesus but everything Jesus did was the Father doing it all.


It must be as Christ said, to know Christ is to know the Father as if they are one in the same. I guess it’s back to the drawing board for me, again. 

Hi Rick,

It was definitely God the Father that raised up Christ. Peter affirms this several times as well as Paul.

Acts 2:32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.

Hi Alex,

That’s my point, God raised Jesus from the grave, it was God the Father who said through Jesus destroy this temple and I will raise it up in three days.

Acts 2:32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.

Jesus could not of resurrected Himself being dead but God the Father could indeed raise Jesus having life in Himself to do so but it was Jesus who said He Himself would raise this temple in three days referring to His self.

Jesus said it and I’m not going to go anywhere else with that just out of a healthy fear of God . I’m not sure how to reconcile Jesus stating He was going to raise Himself and God the Father actually raising Christ or if I am to reconcile it I would conclude Jesus and God the Father are one in the same with the exception of perhaps having different personality but the word of God is clear in that there is but only one God.

So if there is only one God and Jesus said destroy this temple and in three days I will raise it and we know Jesus was raised from the dead and God the Father raised Christ then one would conclude Jesus is the Father and the Father is Jesus and so that is how I see Jesus raising Himself as He said He would.

Hi Rick,

I don't think I agree with you and here is why.

Jesus and God the Father are not the same though. Jesus is a being while God the Father is not. Jesus has a beginning, while God the Father does not. Jesus has a God while God the Father does not.

Hi Alex,

No argument from me, it doesn’t get any clearer than how you stated it. I see it was nothing more than me taking the words of Jesus literally when He said destroy this temple and in three days I will raise it up.

Perhaps it’s a mistranslation for all I know, maybe Jesus never said that, you know Ray had pointed stuff like that out in his writing.

Thanks Alex, much appreciated . 

Hi, Rick

He did say that because what will you do with these verses:

39 And those passing by were hurling abuse at Him, wagging their heads
40 and saying, "You who are going to destroy the temple and rebuild it in three days, save Yourself! If You are the Son of God, come down from the cross."
41 In the same way the chief priests also, along with the scribes and elders, were mocking Him and saying,…


…60 They did not find any, even though many false witnesses came forward. But later on two [FALSE WITNESSES] came forward,
61 and said, "This man stated, 'I am able to destroy the temple of God and to rebuild it in three days.'"
62 The high priest stood up and said to Him, "Do You not answer? What is it that these men are testifying against You?"… 


Mark 14:58
"We heard him say, 'I will destroy this temple made with human hands and in three days will build another, not made with hands.'" 
59 Not even in this respect was their testimony consistent.…

Mark 15:29
Those who passed by hurled insults at him, shaking their heads and saying, "So! You who are going to destroy the temple and build it in three days,

[Comment:  It's much easier to twist Jesus' words than to admit they themselves could be wrong.  Jesus never said that HE, Himself would do the destroying of his own temple.  Remember, these were FALSE witnesses and they went around TWISTING His Words for the sake of mocking Him because they hated His guts for shining a Light on their stupid, arrogant, evil ways.  So they were thrilled when he was hanging on that cross dying and gasping for breath.  And started twisting His words.  They heard Him say, Destroy this temple and I will raise it up, but they twisted it so that others would think He said something else.  Satan was there and he is here right now too.  You could pray and ask God to show you the truth, Rick, instead of assuming something that isn't true.  That is another option.  And a pretty smart one if I say so myself. ]