Love

[repottinger]

Thank you for bringing this up, Lauri Ellen, and to everyone else for all of your comments. I find this subject especially timely and pertinent, because, in the short time that I've been communicating on the forum, I've also been struck by the harsh tone of some of the comments, and find it hard to understand why we would want to use such language with brothers and sisters in Christ (as opposed to what we might do in ancient times with the Pharisees or now with the modern-day apologists for the churches of Babylon). I don't know about anyone else here, but I don't know any of the other members of the forum personally, and so don't know much about their relative strength or weakness in the faith; thus, I would want to be very careful about not offending them or weakening their faith:

Romans 14 (AKJV)

14 Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations. 2 For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs. 3 Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him. 4 Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand. 5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks. 7 For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself.8 For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord's. 9 For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living. 10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ. 11 For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God. 12 So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.
13 Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way. 14 I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean. 15 But if thy brother be grieved with thy meat, now walkest thou not charitably. Destroy not him with thy meat, for whom Christ died.16 Let not then your good be evil spoken of: 17 for the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost. 18 For he that in these things serveth Christ is acceptable to God, and approved of men.
19 Let us therefore follow after the things which make for peace, and things wherewith one may edify another. 20 For meat destroy not the work of God. All things indeed are pure; but it is evil for that man who eateth with offence. 21 It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak. 22 Hast thou faith? have it to thyself before God. Happy is he that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth. 23 And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.

I Corinthians 8 (AKJV)

8 Now as touching things offered unto idols, we know that we all have knowledge. Knowledge puffeth up, but charity edifieth. 2 And if any man think that he knoweth any thing, he knoweth nothing yet as he ought to know. 3 But if any man love God, the same is known of him. 4 As concerning therefore the eating of those things that are offered in sacrifice unto idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is none other God but one. 5 For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,) 6 but to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
7 Howbeit there is not in every man that knowledge: for some with conscience of the idol unto this hour eat it as a thing offered unto an idol; and their conscience being weak is defiled. 8 But meat commendeth us not to God: for neither, if we eat, are we the better; neither, if we eat not, are we the worse.9 But take heed lest by any means this liberty of yours become a stumblingblock to them that are weak. 10 For if any man see thee which hast knowledge sit at meat in the idol's temple, shall not the conscience of him which is weak be emboldened to eat those things which are offered to idols; 11 and through thy knowledge shall the weak brother perish, for whom Christ died? 12 But when ye sin so against the brethren, and wound their weak conscience, ye sin against Christ. 13 Wherefore, if meat make my brother to offend, I will eat no flesh while the world standeth, lest I make my brother to offend.

Your brother in Christ,
Randy

[gk@rivervalley]

Doesn't this just sum it all up? What I KNOW (or don't) is of God. What I DO (or don't) is of God. ---Lauriellen

Yes.



"I will just say this now, it seems to be that love is not a lot of what goes on in this forum. When people cut each other up with scriptures and call names and assume all kinds of stuff, and they don't pay attention to what has been written and are sarcastic to each other, well I can get that out in the world all day long. You people here think your all the elect, ..."--MICHAEL G


Human we are.  We all bring a myriad of life-filtering that has produced jagged edges and those edges, sometimes unawares, cut like glass.  Written words spilled out before before a good 'thinking through' don't normally convey a warm tone as we think they may.  The thinking through process is as difficult as smoothing out those jagged edges.  Part of the process of learning 'humble' is discovering one's own self when the time is at hand to turn the cheek.  Most of us watch the bridge burn at failure, many many times before we are able to walk the bridge across.   Guilty party writing.

But then there is forgiveness.........

[Mike Gagne]

Doesn't this just sum it all up? What I KNOW (or don't) is of God. What I DO (or don't) is of God. ---Lauriellen

Yes.



"I will just say this now, it seems to be that love is not a lot of what goes on in this forum. When people cut each other up with scriptures and call names and assume all kinds of stuff, and they don't pay attention to what has been written and are sarcastic to each other, well I can get that out in the world all day long. You people here think your all the elect, ..."--MICHAEL G


Human we are.  We all bring a myriad of life-filtering that has produced jagged edges and those edges, sometimes unawares, cut like glass.  Written words spilled out before before a good 'thinking through' don't normally convey a warm tone as we think they may.  The thinking through process is as difficult as smoothing out those jagged edges.  Part of the process of learning 'humble' is discovering one's own self when the time is at hand to turn the cheek.  Most of us watch the bridge burn at failure, many many times before we are able to walk the bridge across.   Guilty party writing.

But then there is forgiveness.........

Yes there is forgiveness......   

[Nelson Boils]

1 Cor 11:19 NIV-No doubt there have to be differences among you to show which of you have God's approval.

LHB-For there must also be heresies among you,that those who are approved may be made known to you.

EasyEnglish-But perhaps these groups have some purpose.Perhaps you need to be in separate groups when you do not agree.Then,as a result,you can see clearly which people among you are right.You can see which people God is happy with.

[indianabob]

Folks,

Love is the dominate goal and we all "should" strive for it, FIRST.

However if there are to be disputations, based upon our personal ignorance and tiny but growing understanding, then is it not better that we have these trials and testing within the family?
Within the family there can be spiritual recovery from hurts. Outside of the family there is nothing but disappointment and frustrations.

Let's all be honest and forthright in our disagreements and yet patient with one another; for the peace of God comes through testing, challenges, in minds that have come OUT of corruption into a better place.

This then is the BETTER place to have these conversations. Iron rubbing iron as the "book" says.

Indiana bob

[lurquer]

Thanks, Bob, for illuminating that truth. This is INDEED the place for ironing these things out.  People need to be patient with one another, as Paul instructed. 

Without Love, we are nothing.

[santgem]

Morning comes and I must go; day is breaking yonder.
After all the places I have been, now I'm going home.
I have been to seek the sky, to travel on the highway
And the time has come, I don't know why I am going home.

Where is the answer to so many questions
I don't know, so I begin another journey
Where is the meaning for my world I see the answer now.

Though we came by diff'rent roads, now we walk together.
Stay beside me all our days, strangers never more.
Through the cool of summer rains, by the hearthside fire
Here I'll be with you when nothing remains I am home to stay.

For love is the answer to so many questions
Now I know, and I can stop my endless wand'ring
Love gives the meaning to my world
I see the answer now.

Love gives meaning to my world
And I see the answer now
Love is the Answer... Love!

[Ian 155]

Well I will say I have come to appreciate this forum a great deal, I feel I'm among believers when I come here. Yes we are have a varied background of experiences that we draw from and where we are in our studies on these truths. We're all on the same path of seeking this truth, just at different places along it. I feel it is a privilege to be able to discuss these thing among like minded people and I am glad to help some newbies with the basics, but I certainly like to get into the deeper things as well.

God did not take the believers He is teaching off to a monastery in a wilderness some where... no we are all living right in the world and for good reason, it is our training ground. We are trying to learn how to be separate from the world, while still in it. So if God called us all here so we can support one another in this difficult task, then it is good to help and we all have our own way of doing that.

I try to realize that this forum sort of represents the kingdom... I mean it is the grouping together of God's people and I believe this may very well be the only place in the world like this. We need to be able to get along here, if we are to work together in the kingdom. Because we are united together by this truth and should give each other the benefit of the doubt, it's so easy to misunderstand what somebody is saying or be misunderstood, so we need patience with one another. If somebody is weak in one area of understanding... well we all have to grow,  I mean I realize looking back that I have moved on to a better understanding on so many things. But it's been a process of understanding going through many steps to build a better understanding, this is how the precept upon precept works I'm thinking. I feel and we all should think of this as a "labor of love" we are participating in here.

Heb 6:9  But, beloved, we are confident of better things concerning you, yes, things that accompany salvation, though we speak in this manner.
v. 10  For God is not unjust to forget your work and labor of love which you have shown toward His name, in that you have ministered to the saints, and do minister.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

Thanks for this great reminder, Kat.

A while back I was listening to a lecture and the professor said "It's important to remember you didn't marry yourself. You married a different, unique, individual person." This struck a chord with me, because it's easy to forget that sometimes. I want my wife to eat healthy like I do, I want her to like the same kind of movies, have the same disposition, believe the same things, etc. But I have to remember she is a different person---she comes from a different background, had a very different childhood than I did, and has different tastes. It's not my job to make her into another me. Sometimes it's good for couples to fight, because the arguments can produce good results, and make us see and appreciate that we are different.

I like to think it is like that here on the forum too. There are a lot of different backgrounds here. Furthermore, a lot of us have not met each other in person, and words on a computer screen are not always read in the tone that the author intended. I hope the so-called bickering here is us learning to see and appreciate the fact that we are different, and are at different places on the path to the Truth. We may be puny and insignificant, but God is big enough to use the bickering for our own good.

refreshing , thanks

[lauriellen]

"Let's make sure we never let our theology become so complex and unbending that it smothers the love of the Father that flows from us to others. The living demonstration of the Father's goodness through us is what causes men to change their minds and not our perfect theology...selah !!!"--quoting a friend...