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Author Topic: Turning the other cheek  (Read 3689 times)

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Kat

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Re: Turning the other cheek
« Reply #20 on: June 27, 2015, 11:11:48 AM »


Ian, I think you totally miss-read what Christ was saying with "not as I will, but as You will" (Matt 26:39), He is affirming, as He always did "Your (the Father's) will be done." He certainly knew the source of His power

John 6:38  For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me.

Jesus was going through turmoil and also acknowledged that "the flesh is weak" (verse 41), not that He would give in to the Flesh, He was NOT carnal!

But I believe this shows us that, even though He was God, He was fully man, subject to all the pain and agony that was rapidly approaching. This struggle He went through is proof that His suffering was as real as ours are.

Think about this, do you have to 'force' your right arm to do what you want it to do? The Father and Son are ONE... Jesus could no more go against His Father's will than your limb can, it's just an impossibility! Everything is through Christ, but FROM the Father.

1Cor 8:6  yet for us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we for Him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and through whom we live.

John 10:18  No one takes it from Me, but I lay it down of Myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This command I have received from My Father."

John 10:25  Jesus answered them, "I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in My Father's name, they bear witness of Me.

John 10:30  I and My Father are one."

John 10:32  Jesus answered them, "Many good works I have shown you from My Father. For which of those works do you stone Me?"

John 10:37  If I do not do the works of My Father, do not believe Me;
v. 38  but if I do, though you do not believe Me, believe the works, that you may know and believe that the Father is in Me, and I in Him."

mercy, peace and love
Kat
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Ian 155

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Re: Turning the other cheek
« Reply #21 on: June 27, 2015, 11:31:52 AM »

last one

not sure what is being spun here ,not to interested though

YOU WILL DO THE FATHERS WILL, JESUS DONE THE WILL OF THE FATHER THERE WAS NO OTHER OUTCOME NO PLAN B

No matter how painful,difficult, no matter what you have to go thru... he will see you thru, as you do His will - Like it or Not 

this, I may add, can be excruciatingly painful

He alone is our  example

regarding the side line jargon and play on words I have little time for this type of thing;

@Mr Boil,If you think you operate independently of God, we have nothing more to speak about
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Dave in Tenn

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Re: Turning the other cheek
« Reply #22 on: June 27, 2015, 06:27:15 PM »

There's been no play on words.  Ian, YOU used the word 'forced'.  USE SOUND LANGUAGE, otherwise there is confusion.  These things are difficult enough to grapple with without overstatement. 

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Heb 10:32  But you must continue to remember those earlier days, how after you were enlightened you endured a hard and painful struggle.

lurquer

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Re: Turning the other cheek
« Reply #23 on: June 28, 2015, 01:20:50 AM »

Although I am not on this earth to teach English, "forced, empowered, and compelled" are not synonyms. 

Did Jesus DO the will of the Father or not?  If He did, then that WAS His will.  For Him to say NOT MY WILL doesn't mean His will is or was contrary to the Father's will.  Every thing He did and said was according to what was given to Him to do and say.  "Not my will, but Thine" is reiterating this fact He made abundantly clear throughout His ministry as a man.

Are you suggesting that Jesus did NOT love?  That He had to be coerced or forced to lay down His life in love? 

Ray taught in the post I linked to that Jesus VOLUNTEERED.  Volunteering to do the Good Work is not easy.  But Jesus passed His test and received the crown of Life.

I don't know where you are getting your 'doctrine' from, or whether you are making it up.  But I will reiterate that there is 'teaching' floating around that lowers Jesus from the obedient Son to a sinner that needed correction Himself.  It's not going to make a stand here.   

 

   


Very well said, Dave.  You my not be an English professor, but your point was succinct.

AND, I think Ian is being misunderstood. Maybe I can bridge the gap... Christ DESIRED to do the Father's will.  Always.  It's what he innately wanted.  To PLEASE his Father.  It was always that way. But Jesus, as the man, did not want to be tortured to death.  (Who would??)  If Jesus had a way out, that did not void the will of his Father, he would have most certainly taken that path. 

The human analogy is simple--some of us have had (or can relate) a situation where we HAD to do something that we really did not want to do, but out of love, we did it.  Our love for another trumped our own suffering..our own "cringing" (thanks Kat).  Some have killed their own children or wives who were in agony, and who begged for death, to end their sufferings.  Did they WANT to do that? No.  Could YOU do something like that? If you had to?  Can you think of a hypothetical scenario wherein you had to choose between two horrendous outcomes, yet you knew, out of love, the RIGHT one to take, and it was going to really, really hurt (you)?

 I can. And whose will did I serve?  Not mine.  Yet it was my DESIRE to serve that will, ABOVE mine. It's a paradox only for those who cannot discern the difference between "will" and "love". And that's most, because it's hard to parse those words.  Even for English professors.

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Ian 155

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Re: Turning the other cheek
« Reply #24 on: June 28, 2015, 04:26:21 AM »

There's been no play on words.  Ian, YOU used the word 'forced'.  USE SOUND LANGUAGE, otherwise there is confusion.  These things are difficult enough to grapple with without overstatement.

I hear you Dave  -

when you make someone do something, not being a good english scholar myself, is, imposing ones will or enforcing ones will over your will.

I may have been trying to amplify the sovereignty aspect with the word Force.

So to Mr Boils original quote, a good answer (now that all the gnats are strained), may be...

At the appropriate time ,God makes us turn the other cheek even, if we are resisting.
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Joel

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Re: Turning the other cheek
« Reply #25 on: June 29, 2015, 02:55:16 AM »

I see where Jesus was lead of the HOLY SPIRIT, I don't see anywhere that he was forced to do anything.
You aren't forcing anyone that has a heart to do the will of God, and to serve him more than anything else.
They do those things that are good willingly as they are lead by the Spirit, and there are many examples of that all through the scriptures.
Jesus instructed us to turn the other cheek, on my very best day of carnal living I wouldn't be able to do that.

Joel




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Ian 155

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Re: Turning the other cheek
« Reply #26 on: July 09, 2015, 02:57:18 AM »


ἄγω
agō
ag'-o
A primary verb; properly to lead; by implication to bring, drive, (reflexively) go, (specifically) pass (time), or (figuratively) induce:
Total KJV occurrences: 71
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