The way I see it all the things that happened to Paul were all ordered of the Lord.
Acts 9:15-16- But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel: For I will shew him how great tings he must suffer for my name's sake.
Saul must have felt like a thorn in the flesh to the early members of the Church, before he was converted by the Lord himself. His main gold no doubt was to devour, and destroy anyone that were members of the body of Christ at that time. He for sure persecuted them, and buffeted them with many hurtful blows. (breathing out threatenings and slaughter against the disciples of the LORD,) Acts 9:1
Joel
Good points, Joel. I just thought of something. (Sorry for the long post, and you can delete it if I'm out of line or whatever. I won't object.)
I'm seriously beginning to wonder if the messenger of Satan was there reminding him of everything he had done to those innocent Christians as a carnal minded pharisee.
I hardly think a spiritual messenger "or creature" could literally knock a physical person upside the head. If that is the case, then it was a literal (physical) messenger of Satan.
I believe the spiritual messenger ("one who doesn't teach" per Ray) was there at every turn to harass and aggravate Paul into recalling all the evil he had done as a carnally minded pharisee. Probably saying things like, "how undeserving you are to be chosen of God."
I can just imagine the memories that must have come to Paul's mind without warning. He finally gets a breather and here comes a bad memory from his past when he was operating according to the the flesh..... ooooohhh
And here comes another one.... ooouch that hurt.
And another...... uuuuuuhhhh
And another and another and another.... nonstop!
Hey, Paul, here's a memory of Stephen being stoned and you holding the others' coats.... Oh, wait -- don't you remember the time you were harassing all those Christians and all the stupid things you used to say to them? Ouch!
These weren't insults. They were truthful reminders. Satan and his messenger don't always lie, as Ray pointed out -- "All these kingdoms I will give you...."
Messengers/Cherubims are "Cherubs or cherubims are spirit creatures of great power with wings." It's tempting to imagine these "spiritual" cherubim with literal "wings."
They can't be literal wings on a spiritual "messenger." Literal "blows" to the literal head coming from a spiritual WING?!
If spiritual creatures can't be burned up with literal fire, then how can a spiritual wing LITERALLY, and P-H-Y-S-I-C-A-L-L-Y PUNCH someone in their PHYSICAL HEAD?
And how does a physical punch in the head literally make you not conceited.
Ray said:
A splinter seems rather mild compared to the miseries that define buffet. That’s because Paul is not speaking of intensity when he speaks of a "splinter," but rather the incessantness of a splinter. The pain and aggravation is constant.
Neither is Paul speaking of something physical. Not that he didn't experience physical hardships.
I'm sure that the pain of the reminder of those embarrassing memories of his days in the flesh/carnally minded, must have felt like blows to him mentally and emotionally. I mean, when you think about some of the stupid stuff we've done... It's like, Oh Lord -- do I really have to go there? Do I. It's so embarrassing to think about. But the memories pop up out of nowhere and without warning....
Ray said:
Another telling word is found in Paul’s entreaty: "For this I entreat the Lord thrice, that it should withdraw from me.
The Greek word translated "withdraw" is aphistemi = FROM-STAND. Only a creature of intelligence and mobility can possibly "withdraw" from someone.
Withdrawal is used fifteen times in the Greek Scriptures, and always refers to people or creatures of mobility. "Withdrawal" is never used in connection with inanimate objects. Objects are normally "removed" or "taken away." They do not "withdraw." When Paul asked God to have "it" withdraw from him, the "it" was not an "object or thing,", but "a creature."
Messengers of Satan are "creatures." Creatures are not shipwrecks and vigils and cold and imprisonments -- those are all "things."
I imagine he had to learn through all of that he was "buffeted" with to believe that he was forgiven and that Jesus Christ really and truly loved him and had mercy on him and belonged to Christ.
We walk by faith, not sight.
Everything Paul experienced would have made most of us fold because we walk by sight. We would have caved in and said, there's no way God loves me because look at how much I'm suffering physically. It must be because of all the things I did in my past. But not Paul. He said:
I am convinced (have no doubt) that neither life, nor thing impending, nor ...... can separate you from Christ's love. The constant reminders of those days in his flesh must have been a real pain and aggravation and I believe that those reminders came to him by way of the "splinter."
The splinter was not in his literal flesh, but reminding him of his former conceit. That's how he got to be such "good" pharisee in the first place. You don't drive out conceit by literal cold weather.
Besides, Paul laid out all of the things he suffered physically and tangibly during his ministry, so wouldn't a splinter in his literal flesh be redundant?
weariness
jails
blows
deaths
thirty-nine lashes
flogged with rods
stoned
shipwrecked
day & night in swamp
journeys
dangers of rivers
dangers of robbers
dangers of my race
dangers of the nations
dangers in the city
dangers in wilderness
dangers in the sea
dangers/false brethren
toil and labor
vigils
famine and thirst
fasts
cold and nakedness
7 So to keep me from becoming
conceited because of the surpassing greatness of the revelations, a thorn was given me in the flesh, a messenger of Satan to
harass me, to keep me from becoming
conceited ....
So why would this messenger have to harass and aggravate him physically some more? It just seems so redundant.
He had to learn total dependence on God now in every way, shape and form: mentally, physically, emotionally. That's what he was always saying. So he had to learn it himself and keep practicing at it. He couldn't depend on himself or his former or current "status" any longer, the way some of us rest on our laurels.
He couldn't say, Look, guys, the reason I was given this revelation is because of something great that I have done to deserve this. That's a blow to the ego as a former pharisee. There goes your conceit - right out the window...............
Shipwrecks and imprisonments obviously couldn't get rid of the conceit that was ready and waiting to well up inside of him.
Only a "messenger of Satan," some creature to constantly nag and aggravate the living daylights out of him about something he had previously done in his carnal minded, fleshly days as a former pharisee could do that. How did the messenger actually go about doing that? That's the question.
Sorry this was so long! And if you got this far and don't want to clobber me... thanks.
I pray to God that I didn't confuse anyone.
As Indianabob says... kindly offered....