Hi Boils,
It's important to remember that forgiveness does not mean there are no consequences for the sin. It does not give us a free pass to sin. Here is how "forgive" is defined by the Merriam-Webster dictionary: "to stop feeling anger toward someone; to stop blaming". That is all. The transgressor still has to repent and be cleansed, even if God (or the person) does not feel angry toward him.
There were a few times in my childhood when I received a spanking for misbehavior. My mom may have been angry with me for a short while, but the anger did not last. She forgave me, and loved me. But I still had to get spanked by my father when he got home from work.
Here is some more on this subject, from Ray. I've highlighted some of the points that are most pertinent to our discussion.
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,3709.0.htmlRepent means to turn around, to go the other way. Whatever you are doing that’s wrong and sinful and evil and carnal and worldly and everything else, you turn around, you 'repent' and you go the other direction. The scriptures mention a couple of words:
Matthew 18:3 talks about being converted
Matthew 19:28 talks about being regenerated
1Peter 1:3 talks about being born again
John 3:3 talks about being born again
What are all those things? They’re all one and the same, there’s no difference. Being begotten anew, being born again, being regenerated, being converted. They are all the same and this is what we all want to do so that we can take on more knowledge and live more Godly, and reach this goal.
We all sin. Sin has to go through three things: cleansing, repentance, forgiveness. Does anybody know the order of these things?
This is the order of what happens to sin:
1. Forgiveness
2. Repentance
3. Cleansing
God does not cleanse anybody of sins they haven’t repented of.Forgiveness comes first! Isn’t that interesting. Jesus Christ was slain from the foundation of the world and why was He slain? Why did Christ die? The scriptures say Christ died for our sins. That’s the simplest statement, but there is a little bit more.
I want you to notice this, I’m going to give you what happened BEFORE the Cross... AT the Cross... and AFTER the Cross.
BEFORE the cross in Matthew 26 where Christ gave the symbols of the blood and the wine he says:
Matthew 26:28 for this is My blood that is shed for many for the remission of sins.
Remission just means forgiveness or pardon. Your sins are remitted, forgiven, pardoned.
But this He told them at the Passover, 'before' he was crucified. That IF they partook of this symbol, “this is the blood of the covenant that is shed for many for the remission of sins.” Were the Apostles converted yet? No, they weren’t even converted. But they are going to take these symbols, which show forgiveness! That’s 'before' the cross.
AT the cross. Christ is hanging on the cross dying and He looks down to those who put Him up there and he says “Father, forgive them for they know not what they do.” Did they repent? No. Were they cleansed of their sins? No. But Jesus Christ forgave them. He forgave them!
AFTER the cross Jesus met with the disciples in Luke 24 and he said this:
Luke 24:47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in His name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
Now that doesn’t change the order, because He said repentance and remission. We know that the sins are; 1) first remitted and 2) then people repent and 3) then they are cleansed. So it was 'after' the cross that even the apostles and the disciples really repented. We know that they repented, because on the day of Pentecost. There were about 120 of them gathered together and they all received the gift of the Holy Spirit, which was proof that they were repentant and converted to God.
http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,2289.0.htmlDear Robert:
Jesus DIED: "...for the ungodly" (Rom. 5:6); "...unto sin" (Rom. 6:10); "...for our sins" (I Cor. 5:3); "...for all" (II Cor. 5:15); "...for us" (I Thes. 5:10, but nowhere does it say He died for our judgment or for our forgiveness. Christ was judged for nothing. We are not "considered judged" as though it happened in the past at the cross and therefore has no more place in our life. Likewise,
Jesus did not die for our "forgiveness." Long after the crucifixion and cross of Jesus, Peter tells us that "Judgment begins [yet, still] at the house of God...." (I Pet. 4:17).
We must yet, still REPENT of our sins and CONFESS them (I John 1:8-9).
Christ's death on the cross did not and does not adjudicate as innocent, ALL ARE GUILTY SINNERS.Jesus paid the penalty for all sin at the cross: He did not make all sinners SAINTS at the cross. Hence, we all need judging.God be with you,
Ray
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,4490.0.html Dear William: I have never ever say that "everyone is already saved," but I have said many many times "NO ONE is already saved." No one is actually and literally saved until the Spiritual resurrection of the Elect of God (I Cor. 15:-42-54). God counts things that ARE NOT as thought they WERE (Rom. 4:17). And so, although not all individuals have as yet been forgiven of their sins, in God's mind the end of His plan to save all is already a fact. Jesus plainly says that if we do not forgive others of their sins, NEVER WILL GOD FORGIVE US (Matt. 6:14-15). But God knows that eventually (in the resurrection to Judgment),
all will forgive others their sins and therefore God will also forgive them. Hope this helps your understanding.
God be with you,
Ray