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[Kat]

Hi Gina, We are begotten now, have the earnest of the Holy Spirit, that is a guarantee (2 Cor 1:22; 5:5; Eph 1:14), those that are chosen cannot be lost (John 10:28). Now in this life the elect are being prepared to enter the kingdom, learning humility - serving, putting all others first.

Mark 9:33  Then He came to Capernaum. And when He was in the house He asked them, "What was it you disputed among yourselves on the road?"
v. 34  But they kept silent, for on the road they had disputed among themselves who would be the greatest.
v. 35  And He sat down, called the twelve, and said to them, "If anyone desires to be first, he shall be last of all and servant of all."

So we are yet to be born in the kingdom, that only happens at resurrection. Here are some emails that may help.

http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,2835.0.html ---

Dear Joed:
It is not true that Greek words have only one specific meaning. Although Greek is
a very precise language as languages go, many of its words have several meanings,
and in some cases this is very important and sometimes difficult to distinguish.
 
For example in Greek 'gennao' means "bear, beget, be born, conceive."
At least in English we have the two distinct words: "conceive" and "born" which are
quite different in real life. Yet in the Greek to "conceive" is the same word as to "be born."
Hence the "born again" doctrine of all Christendom, when in reality, we only have a "conception"
in this life and are not fully born until we are born into the kingdom of God in resurrection.


http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,5854.0.html ----

 It says in James that God's seed can't sin, can the new man/creature sin? isn't that part of us perfect? do we have God's seed? what is that seed?
 
COMMENT:  There are a lot of unscriptural phrases in that set of questions that are difficult to answer as asked.
Actually, the Scripture you are trying to reference is found in I John 3:9, not in James' epistle:

1Jo 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

This is speaking of being "born" of God. No one is "born" of God until resurrection. In this life we are only "begotten."  The words "born" and "begotten" come from the same Greek word. They didn't have two different words for the two different aspects of regeneration.  Here is a Scripture that shows we have only a spiritual "begettal" in this life:

Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

Eph 1:14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

Notice that we must wait "until" our full redemption is acquired. That happens in resurrection.  Jesus taught that when we are actually "born" of the spirit (rather than just begotten), we will be "like the wind."  None of us are "like the wind" in this life (John 3:6-8).


http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,2619.0.html ----

Dear Bobby:
The Spirit of Christ is eternal, and when we have the Spirit of Christ we have eternal life in us. But....BUT,
we have only the "earnest" of that spirit, and it will not keep our physical bodies from dying. But when we have the earnest of God's spirit, it is proof that there is more to come:  "In Whom you also trusted after that you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in Whom also after that you believed, you were SEALED WITH THAT HOLY SPIRIT OF PROMISE.  Which is the EARNEST of our inheritance UNTIL [not now; not yet, but later] the redemption of the purchased POSSESSION, unto the praise of His glory" (Eph. 1:13-14).
 
And that takes place at the resurrection of the saints at the last trump. One more point: although we are promised "eonian" life, nonethless, the spirit that gives us "immortality," IS ETERNAL.
 

http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,1859.0.html -----

Dear Wesley:
When all else fails read and believe the Scriptures:
 
"So also is the resurrection of the dead.  It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory:  it is sown in weakness it is raised in power: It is sown a natural body; it is raised a SPIRITUAL BODY. There is a NATURAL body, and there is a SPIRITUAL body"  (I Cor. 15:42-45)
 
When it says "spiritual" it does not mean "physical."

Now this I say, brethren, that FLESH AND BLOOD [that's natural; that's physical] CANNOT inherit the kingdom of God; neither does corruption inherit incorruption.
 
Whereas John 3:3 in the King James says "born again," it would better translated "begotten anew from above."  In the Greek there is but one word for both "begotten and born."  Only the context can separate the proper use. At present the Elect Saints of  God have only the "earnest" of our full spiritual birth into His Kingdom:  "...ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of PROMISE [a promise of a future fulfilment] Which is the EARNEST of our inheritance UNTIL the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of His glory"  (Eph. 1:13-14).
 
I covered this in our Mobile Bible Conference last week. You should have been there.

God be with you,
Ray

[Gina]

Hi, Kat


I realize flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God.  I thought of it this way:

Are servants heirs?  Yes.  Do they have the down payment?  Yes.  Do they possess the money/riches?  No, they have to be "of age" to be able to receive it.  But just because the heir isn't old enough to possess the kingdom (the keys to which Jesus put in Peter's possession) doesn't mean the heir doesn't actually reside in the king's house  or in the kingdom.   Just like a baby that is begotten.  The baby may still have to be born into the world, but that doesn't mean that it isn't already in the world, because it actually is in the world.  It entered the world when it was conceived.  Same as those who are entering or in the kingdom of God.  Maybe we're not fully formed yet or born, but that doesn't mean we're not already in the kingdom of God.

Acts  ....iit is through much tribulation that we must be entering into the Kingdom of God...

Heb 10:32  But you must continue to remember those earlier days, how after you were enlightened you endured a hard and painful struggle.

"I tell you the truth, those who listen to my message and believe in God who sent me have eternal life. They will never be condemned for their sins, but they have already passed from death into life.

[Gina]

Matthew 18:3 And he said: "Truly I tell you, unless you change and become like little
 children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven." 

He said they would enter the Kingdom of Heaven when they changed and became like little children.  But where is it said that they would only enter the kingdom at the resurrection?  Maybe I am totally misunderstanding but I don't think so.  Jesus said enter at the straight gate.  Are we not conceived of the Holy Spirit now, though not yet fully born anew?  If we are the Temple of God now, how come we are not currently in the Kingdom, even if we don't possess the kingdom at present?  Though, not all are vessels of honor, but some are vessels of dishonor, still both are in the "great house."

20Now in a large house there are not only gold and silver vessels, but also vessels of wood and of earthenware, and some to honor and some to dishonor. 21Therefore, if anyone cleanses himself from these things, he will be a vessel for honor, sanctified, useful to the Master, prepared for every good work.…

Are those works to be done by the heirs who have inherited the kingdom after having been fully born anew at the resurrection?  Did Paul do none of God's works while still in this "tent"? 

2 Timothy 4:7  I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith. 

Are you saying Paul was not in the Kingdom of God?



Acts 28:23 They arranged to meet Paul on a certain day, and came in even larger numbers to the place where he was staying. He witnessed to them from morning till evening, explaining about the kingdom of God, and from the Law of Moses and from the Prophets he tried to persuade them about Jesus. 24 Some were convinced by what he said, but others would not believe. 2 5They disagreed among themselves and began to leave after Paul had made this final statement: “The Holy Spirit spoke the truth to your ancestors when he said through Isaiah the prophet:

26 “ ‘Go to this people and say,
“You will be ever hearing but never understanding;
you will be ever seeing but never perceiving.”
27 For this people’s heart has become calloused;
they hardly hear with their ears,
and they have closed their eyes.
Otherwise they might see with their eyes,
hear with their ears,
understand with their hearts
and turn, and I would heal them. (Isaiah 6:9,10)

28 “Therefore I want you to know that God’s salvation has been sent to the Gentiles, and they will listen!”

When will they listen ?  Now, or after the resurrection to judgment? 

Also, how could Paul speak about the Kingdom of God if he were not in it?

And if we are in the world but not of it, where have we gone?  Where are we?

[Gina]

My last post might sound like I'm picking on you, Kat.  I'm firing off all these rhetorical questions.  I'm sorry.  I'm not picking on you, Kat.  You're not my enemy.  I hope it doesn't come off that way. 

And thank you very much for putting up the links for the study.    

[Joel]

The way I see it, we are in the world  but not of the world, the kingdom of God is within us.

Joel

[Dave in Tenn]

"And if we are in the world but not of it, where have we gone?  Where are we?"

The answer is in the question.  Where are we?  In the world.

[John from Kentucky]

The questions and answers show lack of understanding.

There is a Scripture that says, "My people are destroyed by lack of understanding."

In John 3, Jesus tells us that we must be born again of the Spirit, and that the Spirit is like the wind; you cannot physically see it coming or going.

If you are not like the wind, then you are not born again.

When will we be born again?

At the Resurrection of the Just, when we will be like the wind, when Jesus returns, in the Kingdom of God.

"Not by might, nor by power, but by My Spirit says the LORD God Almighty."

[Kat]

Well John swooped in and set us all straight... anyway this is from the conference transcript 'What Is The Gospel Of The Kingdom?'

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php?topic=6142.0 ----

                                 HEAVEN OF THE HEAVENS

So what is the kingdom? We are the kingdom of God... we are the kingdom of the heavens. Where does God reside? In heaven. God resides in heaven, but it is not called the kingdom of heaven in the Greek, you can check Rotherham and all those, it’s kingdom of the heavens, plural. We are the temple of God... God resides in His temple... God resides in heaven. We are the heaven in which God resides, where He dwells. But don’t get to haughty, because the Scriptures say, not even all the heaven of the heavens can contain Him.

2Chron 6:18  …Behold, heaven and the heaven of heavens cannot contain You.  How much less this temple which I have built!

But never the less it is true, He does dwell in the heavens. But they can’t even contain Him, He’s bigger than that. But He does dwell in His heavens, we are His heavens, we are His spiritual kingdom. But it does not yet appear what we shall be, we only have the earnest, down payment of His spirit.

Eph 1:14  which is an earnest of our inheritance, unto the redemption of God's own possession, unto the praise of His glory.

We have the down payment, but John says we will eventually see Him as He is, because we will be like Him. We will be like Jesus Christ!

1John 3:2  Beloved, now we are children of God, and it has not appeared as yet what we will be. We know that when He appears, we will be like Him, because we will see Him just as He is.

So we are the kingdom of God. Christ is going to return with a kingdom... what does He return with?  What is the symbolism of how Christ returns? He returns on... what is He riding? A white horse. Is anybody with Him? An army! Are they walking? They are riding on white horses too!

Rev 19:14  And the armies in Heaven followed Him on white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

What is that army? The kingdom of God... IT'S US! We are coming with Him, He is going to gather US up. Gather up what? His army, His kingdom!
v

Rev 5:10  And You made US kings and priests to our God, and WE will reign over the earth.

WE are the kingdom! You are going to have to do a little rethinking in your minds here maybe.  We are the kingdom.

Rev 2:26  And he who overcomes (that’s us) and keeps My works (that should be us)  to the end, to him (that’s us) I will give power over the nations.

This kingdom is going to rule over the nations.

Rev 2:27  And he (that’s us) will rule them…

Remember the us and the them “to you it is given” (Luke 8:10). That’s us, but not to them. The us, the we, are going to rule over the nations, over them. 

Rev 3:21  To him (that’s us) who overcomes (I hope that is all of us, because if you don‘t overcome then you won't be, it‘s just as simple as that) I will grant to sit with Me in My throne,

The throne is over a kingdom and the King of a kingdom… the throne. 

1Thes. 4:17  Then we (that’s us - the kingdom) who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them (in this case it’s those that were asleep in the earth) in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we (that’s us) shall always be with the Lord.

Jude 1:14 "Behold, the Lord comes with ten thousands of His saints,

That’s us, that’s the kingdom. The kingdom of what? The Kingdom of the heavens. 

There is the one seed - Christ. But if you are IN Christ you are Abraham’s seed, multiple seed. But in Christ we are ONE.

Mat 24:31  And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect (that’s us)  from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Then He comes back and that’s His army. He gathers them and He comes back with them and He rules the nations with a rod of iron…US the kingdom of the heavens.

Rev 19:14  And the armies in heaven (that‘s us on white horses), clothed in fine linen…

Fine linen that‘s righteousness - your doing what is right, which far exceeds the Scribes and the Pharisees or you shall in no wise inherit what? The kingdom of the heavens. So they‘ve got white linen on, because these people are righteous, they do what is right.

Rev 19:16  On His vesture and on His thigh He has a name written, King of kings and Lord of lords.

You know who the King is, that’s Christ. Who are the kings? The kings are the heavens. We are the heavens. Here is a portion of God’s kingdom made up of heavens. God’s Spirit is dwelling in you - God dwells in heaven, but in plural, heavens. God dwells in the heavens of His kingdom. We are the heavens of His kingdom.
 
“King of kings, Lord of lords.” Who is Lord? Jesus Christ. Who are the lords, plural? We are the lords.
----------------------------------------------------------------

mercy, peace and love
Kat

[Gina]

"And if we are in the world but not of it, where have we gone?  Where are we?"

The answer is in the question.  Where are we?  In the world.

That's only a half truth, Dave.  Here's the whole truth:

1 Corinthians 6:17 But whoever is united with the Lord is one with him in spirit.

19 "After a little while the world will no longer see Me, but you will see Me; because I live, you will live also.  20 "In that day you will know that I am in My Father, and you in Me, and I in you.[/i]

Where we are is in Him.  That's where we are.  That's all I meant, Dave.  But thank you for your reply anyway.

[Gina]

That's another very good quote from Ray.  We are the kingdom.  Christ dwells in us and we are in Christ, spiritually speaking.  That's where we are supposed to be living, at least.

Here's another one about where we are: 

And so we know and rely on the love God has for us. God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in them.  1 John 4:16

I'm sure there is more.  Yes, I know we're in the world, but we're not really supposed to be living in it, as if we haven't died to it.